BOTM 40 First Spoiler - up to 1 AD

DynamicSpirit

Fear him of the pink tie
Moderator
GOTM Staff
Joined
Dec 23, 2005
Messages
6,855
Location
London, UK

BOTM 40 First Spoiler 1AD



So how is immortal with islands proving? Have you met anyone else? Are you able to keep up with anyone? Have you managed to build any navigation I galleys to explore with?

Reading Requirements

Stop! If you are participating in BOTM 40, then you MUST NOT read this thread unless EITHER


  • You have reached at least 1 AD in your game, OR
  • You have submitted your entry


Posting Restrictions

  • Please do not discuss anything that happened after 1 AD,
  • Please do not divulge your final result if that happened after 1 AD.
  • Please do not discuss the location of resources that may not show up before 1 AD (Iron is fine, coal isn't).
  • Please do not reveal the locations of any civs that are not on your landmass or within a few turns reach of your starting landmass by galley?
  • Do not post any savegame file from the game. Discussions and screenshots are fine but not actual games.
 
I live! :D OK, that's not a big deal in what's been a completely peaceful game so far. Toku (gah, him again :mad:) demanded a minor tech from me, which I granted, and of course the old boot won't open his borders, but he hasn't been as big a pain as he sometimes is. Oh, forgot, he has been his usual PITA--he settled a city on my island 2S of the wheat on the copper :mad:, just as I was preparing to send a settler to his horses island :mad::mad:. My fallback plan was to take Spice island but his culture caught my galley on the wrong side so I lost that race, too. :mad::mad::mad:

At 1 AD I have a not so grand total of 4 cities, populations 5,4,3,1. I settled my capital 4E2S of the starting location, on the plains hill with a BFC containing the pigs, (iron), and 2 bananas. Eventually it'll have a lot of food but settling in place probably would have been a better move, not least because I've lost the fish to Toku's culture (one more reason to hate on him). Oh, and jungle grew over the originally unjungled bananas soon after I settled my capital. I'm very curious to hear what everybody else did. It would be great if somebody said "Shrewd move, Xcal!" but I don't think that'll happen. :mischief:

The only religion to spread to me is Hinduism (to my smallest city, natch) while all 4 of the AIs I've met are Buddhist. Swell. :rolleyes: So, basically, my game sux, I guess. :lol: I went Mining, AH, Writing, Sailing, Alphabet, and then did a bunch of trades. I'm not too far behind everyone else yet and am 8 turns from Construction at 50 bpt (60%, with a capital academy). The plan is to build cats and wipe Toku from my island, then take Spice island, and if I'm still ambulatory go after Japan proper. Because I hate him.

Some Wonder dates (I have, of course, built none) are: Henge 2200 BC, GW 1640 (Japan), GLH 1240, Oracle 700, Mids 600, Colossus 0. Without any barbs to worry about I've sent out one workboat to explore and will send out my now-useless-for-settling NavI galley in the other direction, if/when my new eastern coast city builds a culture bridge to somewhere. What's this "immortal with islands" game you speak of, DS? My game is much harder. ;) To each of us, as the samurai say in parting, "Luck!"
 
Pretty much my only experience with Deity games is for the HoF challenge, where the settings are pretty much cooked to my liking. My confidence at this level isn’t high.

I settled on the plains hill to the west. Not the healthiest spot, or brilliant long term, but hopefully it will get my empire off the ground. My first build was a workboat, and first techs went Agriculture->Mining. Tokugawa met me pretty early, and I pretty much realised that the island to the northwest is out of bounds. Our own island isn’t too small, maybe I can squeeze a cultural victory out of it with only a few cities.

I managed to squeeze out an early worker, and then teched through Sailing->Masonry - yep, I’m chasing the Great Lighthouse. A chop of one of my health giving forests, and a whipped settler had my second city founded in 1880 BC 3S1W of the capital(next to copper), and the GLH was mine in 1680 BC. I breathe a sigh of relief. The AI have already got 4-6 cities to my 2, but I have the GLH and an island hopefully all to myself.

Plan here is to plant as many cities as I can on this island, and also expand out to the small island to the southwest (GPFarm perhaps?). At 1000 BC I am 1 turn away from settling city #3 - directly on top of the southeastern most gems, so that the city could eat fish. Techs through here have been Bronze Working->Mysticism (monument needed in City #3)->The Wheel->Pottery.

Next tech goal is Writing, so I can open borders and really put the Great Lighthouse to use. After that I go for the Aesthetics route, which pays off when I can trade it to *OOPS* for Alphabet in 575 BC. This also nets me Iron Working and Archery. At 500 BC I am researching Currency and have settled 5 cities, having added a city on the southwest island, and what seems an excellent production city claiming 2 bananas, pigs and iron.

Madness is brewing amongst the AIs, and *OOPS* is WHEOOHRN - presumably their worst enemy Tokugawa. Toku asks me to stop trading with *OOPS*... and after some deliberation I figure I’d rather have him at least Cautious than any relationship with *OOPS*, so I quit my deals with them. It’s a shame that Toku doesn’t even like me any more for it, but at least I feel confident that *OOPS* can’t reach me with Galleys without an OB with their worst enemy Toku. Through here I’ve teched Currency, and then managed to trade for Maths and AH from *OOPS* (who is pleased with me :)).

Stats at 1 AD: 7 cities, 5 workers (!), 23 pop (5,4,4,4,3,2,1), another settler due in 3 turns, 8 warriors, 2 galleys (1 exploring, but not getting anywhere, trapped by Toku), 1 settled Great Merchant in capital, ~80 sustainable :science:/turn, 1 turn away from learning Code of Laws.

I am going to shoot for a Cultural victory here, since I think the conditions are favourable. I think I play an alright diplo game, so hopefully can keep out of wars. I will have room for exactly 9 cities, and already have 3 religions (alas, not Buddhism yet which *OOPS* and Toku are enjoying, *OOPS* is Confu).
 
Settled 1SW, my estimates was that it would do well on timing for GLH. Got it at 1750BC, which obviously was a huge boost.
Also got a scouting wb out before Toku culture blocked the path, so trade routes galore with all the others.
7 cities, soon to be 9. Managed to sneak one on the NW island with some seafood and plains hills.
Teched Aesthetics for trading, bulbed Currency with the GM for even more trade routes, and now ~5 turns from Civil Service with a general tech lead!
Only 1AD has Machinery, but only 2 have Monarchy not including Toku. So if I can trade for Machinery, we may actually see some beserker action!

Definitely winnable, but some of the AI's are huge already though, so let's see. One war declared, so the diplo picture is OK for now, with everyone hating someone else or Toku.
 

Posting Restrictions


  • (snip)
  • Please do not reveal the locations of any civs that are not on your landmass or within a few turns reach of your starting landmass by galley?


If I understand this correctly we should only identify Toku? For those who haven't been smart enough on exploring (like myself :blush:), it could be spoilerish to read about the other AI's mentioned on the above posts. I, for one, had not met yet 3 of the 5 AI's mentioned here (Toku included), whereas a different one has found me.

My worst mistake (making my chances of getting any victory even worse) was pulling back my exploring WB which had met the AI to the west, past Toku, instead of just waiting to get writing for OB, and continuing from there. Now that Toku's borders expanded along the way I can't get there again.

I settled in place, built the GLH after a couple settlers, then expanded to 6 cities (5 in starting landmass, one on spice island). I have built a small army for Toku, but just realized that if I go to war with him, I will lose all my foreign trade routes...Very frustrating. :sad: Not sure of what I should do now...but I'm certainly putting this game to sleep for a week.
 
I edited my post to only mention Toku, but it is kind of hard to write a spoiler under those conditions! See you in the final spoiler!
 
If I understand this correctly we should only identify Toku? For those who haven't been smart enough on exploring (like myself :blush:), it could be spoilerish to read about the other AI's mentioned on the above posts. I, for one, had not met yet 3 of the 5 AI's mentioned here (Toku included), whereas a different one has found me.

The requirement was for people not to give away the locations of the AIs, there was no restriction on naming them. Hence I don't believe any of the posts broke the rules.

Clearly in the light of your post, that may have been a misjudgement on my part, so, sorry if it's spoilt your game somewhat. Having said that, I think it'd be very hard for anyone who's explored a fair bit, or who's had AI's come visiting the starting island, to write spoilers without being able to name the nearby civs, and besides I don't think it'd be too fair to change the conditions halfway through the spoiler thread.

Can I therefore suggest that anyone who wants to name any AI's (apart from Toku) put the name in [ spoiler ] [ /spoiler] tags, so readers who don't want to know the names don't have to. The ban on revealing locations remains.


As an aside, I'd mention it is sometimes quite an art to come up with spoiler conditions, as on the one hand they need to be appropriate to the game and to how much of the map players are likely to explore, but on the other hand there's always a risk that if the gamemaker customizes the spoiler conditions, then the spoiler conditions themselves can be used to deduce information about the map.
 
@Adrianj: I also play Deity rarely, except for the occasional HoF Challenge Series game on that level. Lucky for me, the present HoF CS Game#10 has setting very similar to these: Archipelago/Deity. Sure, its quick speed instead of normal speed on BOTM40, but that just makes this one easier. ;) I played HoF CS#10 8 times in a row just before this game came out, so I decided right from the start to pursue some AP cheese, knowing that it is quite winnable that way. (OK, 5 of my 8 tries at CS#10 I aborted the game after losing the Oracle/Theology sling, but the other three were victories, albeit not impressive dates).

Up to 1AD here is how to do it (or rather how I did it, Sun Tzu Wu could surely improve over this):

Techs: Only those techs which will enable Theology from Oracle. Not one single worker tech. (The techs you need are Mining, Animal Husbandry, Writing, Mysticism, Polytheism, Priesthood, Masonry, Monotheism). Something approximating that order. Usually it is good to get Oracle started ASAP since you are doing it without chops/whips.

Builds: The only thing you will need to build is probably a worker (depending on whether those techs plus starting techs let your worker do anything useful), then a garrison warrior, A workboat for early exploring (on this map with this leader who starts with fishing) is highly recommended. You are building the Oracle at first chance... forget whatever else is in the queue. You should have time to get one settler out first, though. Then you might as well build (for fail gold) the Stonehenge -- switch to library when you have writing, and open borders with everyone. Worker should improve food-> commerce tile (if you have one) in that order. Then sit and do nothing, probably.:lol:

What's going on:
Optimally, you have either founded an early religion (unlikely at deity, but not impossible) or gotten religios spread from a neighbor. You will adopt the prevalent religion of your neighbors at first opportunity. You will adopt Org Rel at first opportunity, and make sure that this common religion, your state religion, is in the city where you will build the AP. In this game, all of my met civs were Bhudist and I got Bhudism spontaneous spread in both my cities before Oracle built. :goodjob: Toku changed to Confu when he founded that religion... a potential problem on the horizon.

OK, about 1000BC the Oracle finishes and Monotheism is discovered on the same turn, and Theology is taken as free tech. It founds in your second city, but gives you a missionary to spread to your first city. Next build is the AP (build while in Bhudism, but switch state religion to Christianity the turn before the AP completes, so YOU have a monopoly on who gets the AP religion and how much of it they get). Switch back to common religion for diplomacy purposes after the 5t limit expires!

Then you will want to get bronzeworking next to chop/whip the AP asap. Do not trade away Theology before you have 1t or less to finish the AP! After that, its great trade bait. You'll want sailing to build galleys to transport missionaries, also high prio.

Next, you are going to build missionaries. Lots of 'em. Don't stop. You'll need 'em.
You can (and should) expand on your island, but no point settling off-island and creating negative feelings for close borders with other civs.

So... status at 1AD: I have the AP, which unites the Christian faith. Every election is uncontested, since only I am eligible, as everyone else (including me) is running a different state religion. My first GPro has built the Church of the Nativity, and it has spread Christianity to a couple civs already (free misionaries!). The rest of GPro's are settled in capitol. 4 civs met, 3 bhudist, one confu.

Plans: I can see who my friends are likely going to be (Bhudists, and those who will love me for running HR and OR civics).... they will get a lot of Xtianity. And I have an idea who I will never get friendly... they will get one missionary, late as possible, in the smallest city with lowest growth potential. I have only met 4 civs (3 share Bhudism). I will not "need" Optics to reach all civs or get circumnav bonus (I don't think), but tortuous paths in galleys is so slow, I doubt I can get missionaries to all civs before I have Optics anyhow. So beeline to optics is in the plans.

I'll be ready to use all the tricks: Spies to change civics or even change religions to those which give diplo bonus to me. Gifting resources. Gift techs at end. Give in to all demands, except those which cause negative diplo with friend targets. Gift missionaries to civs running Thocracy. Use NSR when/if appropriate to get open borders. Then spam Xtianity in my friends cities until 75% of the xtian cities will vote for me. And pray (at the Church of the Nativity) I don't get attacked. :lol:

Simple, right? We'll see how that goes in practise, though. ;)
 
Still alive at 1 AD :whew: that's pretty good for me on Deity level!

Settled on the plains hill to the SW. Initial build = Work Boat; initial research was Sailing > Mining > Bronze Working.

Five cities at 1 AD, all on the home island, with a Settler & Archer on my lone Galley heading for the island to the SW. Total population 18 (3/6/4/3/2). Only 9 sustainable :science: at 10% Science :sad: but should have a GScientist orn in Capitol in another turn or two. He'll probably build an Academy.

Lost out on building The Great Lighthouse :( and have not attempted any other World Wonder. Currently building Moai Statues in City #2, which was founded 2S+1SW of Capitol, next to Copper, with Fish & Clams in BFC.

I've met Toku on turn 3 and have also met...
Spoiler :
Saladin on turn 30. He founded Hinduism, which has spread to both Toku and me, and we're all happy Hindu buddies, although as usual, Toku still hasn't opened his borders.
 
Playing Adventurer here since the highest difficulty I've won anything on is Monarch. This starting area is quite juicy though, so I am optimistic.

Settled in place and REXed with no military. In 1AD, I have had 5 cities for a long time, the last of which is now whipping its library and about to build Moai Statues as I research Calendar and prepare for CS.

Tokugawa founded Judaism while the other early neighbor I saw (X) founded Confucianism. I chose Judaism early when they both had it, and I was considering attacking (X) until I saw Tokugawa settle the spice island before I got to it. Thinking once I have Berserkers, I will go after (X) with Tokugawa since they don't like each other, and then take him out too.

Sighted another neighbor recently, who has some strange religion and doesn't like me much. Hopefully he won't bother me while I'm getting ready to slaughter these other guys.
 
Goal #1: Survive past 1645 (my previous best on deity).
Goal #2: My original plan was to try a culture victory using Ragnar's financial trait boosted by the Colossus. I would obtain Metal Casting from the Oracle.

After trying a test game I decided that the Oracle route was too risky, so researched Metal Casting the hard way. But it worked and I at 1AD I do have the Colossus and 5 cities and am in a reasonable position if I can keep out of wars. My attempt to found a 6th city on a neighbouring island has just failed to Tokugawa, so I am bringing the galley back and will squeeze a 6th city on the home island. It looks like only 2 cathedrals per religion then.

Toku founded Judaism which spread to me and AI#2. I converted and hToku even opened borders with me. AI#3 is running Hinduism, but fortunately hates Toku much more than me. Indeed the two have just started a war. This is not good as one or both will try and drag me in.

I had a narrow escape when founding cities 4 and 5 which I did on the same turn only to find Toku's settler had landed on my home island on the same turn and now couldn't settle.
 
OK this doesn't feel like Deity to me at all.
I'm still alive, and hoping to finish to submit.
Spoiler :
I'm wondering if the map maker deliberately chose NO civs with Hereditary Rule as their favourite civic, in order to slow down research of Monarchy, the prerequisite for Feudalism and therefore make warring easier?


Spoiler :
I also settled on the plains hill and built the Great Lighthouse.
My second city was settled for wheat/clams/copper, allowing me to get another city at the far south of the peninsula, and another to the South East. Two further cities East, and Toku beat me to two nice island spots I had planned on settling but I got the third. I won't say where they were in case it's beyond the limits of this spoiler.
Hopefully I can pull off a win - Toku does not have Feudalism and I'm preparing to Bezerker/Catapult him before he gets it - will it work? Well that's definitely beyond the scope of this spoiler!
 
Ach... I have a month or so away from Civ and when I come back the BOTM is on deity... not the easiest way to settle back into the swing - good fun though!

So I settle down with a beer (never the best idea for deity) and proceed to more or less make a complete hash of things.

Settled on the plains hill W-SW of starting location, not totally convinced but I wanted the extra hammer to get workboats out quickly and explore the surrounding area.

Starting builds were WB-WB-Settler-Worker-WB - what a change not to have to worry about fending off the barbs! First WB went fishing while the other two went exploring. Second city founded 1SE of the pigs.

Early tech was Mining-BW-AH-Sailing-Masonry. Tried to get GLH but it was built by an AI in 1440BC while I was still 7-8 turns away. Poor effort really. Thought I'd have an outside shot at Colossus but this was built in 950BC, whereas I didn't even discover MC until 600BC. Sadly the same AI has both these wonders and they are a long way away from me, too far for a galley based invasion on deity. They are also running away with the game rather.

The lack of GLH or Colossus leaves me somewhat rudderless in terms of strategy. I haven't expanded quickly and have only 6 cities at 1AD, with room for a 7th at the southern tip of the start island but no more than that. I'm keeping up with some AI in tech but not ones who will trade with me. I've found all but 1 AI (and I think I may have seen their borders but not sure), and most are buddist, which took ages to spread to me but has finally got here. I'm hoping to target Togu or another AI who are the only non-buddist AI I have met, but with so few cities and production my chances of success are not great.

I've discovered Currency which has given a boost with the extra trade route, and wish I had gone for that before MC as the Colossus was always a long shot. I've also recently traded for Monarchy and am in HR, Slavery and OR. Also built the Maoi Statues in my capital.

At 1AD 6 cities, 54 beakers per turn, no great people yet and researching Calendar. Very little prospect of victory.
 
settled in place, and with no Barbs I figured I could just Rex without defence for a while, which worked. but then I made a big mistake and killed a couple of workboats with my galley, one belonging to Tokus and another one to another AI west of us. I thought it would slow them down, and they would only be mad at me for 10 or 20 turns or so, but at 1AD they're still pissed and one of them has four galleys (probably filled with warriors) about to land on my shores. I have 7 cities, including one on the spicy isle to the west, and room for another at the southern point of the big island. I'm way behind in tech (10 behind the leader) and my economy has crashed. will try to defend, revive the economy with cottages, etc., but I don't see this ending in a win. maybe a focus on military and try to take out Toku? wish me luck! :)
 
Settled on the PH west. Think this was an OK move.

I have 5 cities on the starting island now, space for one more. Between all these cities, there are 3 tiles that no cities are covering. I've also settled on spice island, lovely. I've gone cottage-mad on my main island to keep the economy going.

A few turns from MC now - no-one's taking the colossus, I've probably left it a bit late but I'll give it a go. I have an uber production city near the iron, it also has copper which I popped (:D), 2 PH, 1 GH, pigs & 2 bananas for food. Insane. It's spitting out an axeman every 2 turns atm to keep my defences kinda up.

I met Toku on like turn 3 I think, but have only met one other AI, name & info in the spoiler.
Spoiler :
Mehmet, I beat him to alpha & have done a few trades with him thankfully. He's WHEOOHRN but has been for ages. +2 diplo with him so he could be wanting me. Perhaps he would like to but can't due to not having open borders with Toku? :lol:

I think I can see the edge of one other culture but I can't reach it.
Spoiler :
Elizabeth? Certainly they are white


Plan - finish MC, try for colossus in uber-production city, if I fail then at least forges will be nice and give +1 happiness, also I can trade MC for maths, will then go for calendar as with that I can get 3 more :) which are desperately needed. Then priesthood, CoL, CS in some order or another so I can get beruocracy to get my economy a shot in the arm. Optics & currency will be nice - perhaps machinery for berzerkers though I have no real target. Hmmm we'll see!

Stats.... 44bpt and +1gpt at 30%, my first GS in around 9 turns. pop = 25, which is 6,6,5,4,3,1. I have 2 religions (1 each in 2 cities) but have not adopted any yet. I'm thinking of a culture win so I will need more religions to enter me for that to happen. The world's dominant religion (29% influence) has not reached me yet :( 5 workers who are running out of stuff to do. With so much water I don't think the 1.5 workers/city guideline really applies here.
 
Settled on PH

1 AD stats: Cities 7, Pop 44, No Wonders, Research: 60%, +109 bpt, +4 gpt

Toku beat me by about 3 turns to the horses :mad:
I guess he'll have a taste of my Beserkers later... :ar15:

Wonders: (some of them)
GLH: 1520 bc
Oracle: 975 bc
Colossus: 725 bc
Stat of Zeus: 200 bc by guess who.... :mischief:

Toku is going to be a major pain in t.. ... as usual. :lol:

Doubt I have time to finish this one :cry: - well maybe I get DOWed by several AI shortly into the AD's. :crazyeye:
 
I wandered off with my settler E and scout SE. On around turn 3, it was panic time as I hadn't found anything very good. Almost settled a really mediocre city just SE of pigs, but I decided to look for one more turn and discovered the site with grass wheat, clam and jungle gems (and also copper eventually).

The 5t delay in settling, coupled with poor tiles in the initial BFC, led me to skip Agri and wheat in favour of a straight GLH beeline. Got it around 1800 BC, but without Agri, second city or an explorer out yet. Toku also got spices as early as 1700 BC. I guess settling on the PH SW of start might block him a bit from going there.

From there it was a struggle. I felt like I was at least 20t behind in tech and empire development from where I'd expect to be at any date. Not surprising with the super slow expansion. Ended up with the horse and incense islands, though. Toku had a settler/archer pair ahead of me, but refused to settle. I don't know why the AI do this. Had an almost identical solo game recently, where Hamurrabi had a settler and archer planted on a 3-tile island from before 2000 BC to the end of game.

An idea of how slow my game was: Colossus went before I even got started on MC. :lol: And I was supposedly beelining it...

The diplo situation is tough. 6 AI split into 3 religious camps - Toku&Sal, SB&Meh and Nap&Vic. I was hoping to get SB's religion, but that didn't happen near 1AD. Everyone was someone's WE, as well, so I couldn't really trade at all without incurring a -4 somewhere.

I don't quite remember where I was at 1AD now, but I would venture to guess 4 cities on the main island, 2-3 on horse/incense, and still researching Currency or COL. The idea was to settle up to 9-10 cities and see if I can get something reasonable on the Medicine beeline with Lib (PP, Chem or better). A cat/berserker rush didn't seem possible here. Nowhere near the tech at 1AD and cities badly underdeveloped. Since I'm obviously rushing to Sushi, I figured cannon much later is the best bet.
 
Back
Top Bottom