BOTM 52 First Spoiler - 1AD

[DynamicSpirit]

BOTM 52 First Spoiler - 1AD

Your chance to tell everyone of your amazing victories against the AI (but only if your victory happened before 1AD)...

Reading Requirements

Stop! If you are participating in BOTM 52 then you MUST NOT read this thread unless EITHER

• You have reached at least 1 AD in your game, OR
• You have submitted your entry, OR
• You have abandoned your game and will not submit.

Posting Restrictions

• Please do not discuss anything that happened after 1 AD.
• Please do not discuss modern era resource locations (iron is OK).
• Please do not divulge your final result if that happened after 1 AD.
• Do not post any savegame file from the game. Discussions and screenshots are fine but not actual games.

 

[Manco Capac]

Got killed in the early 2000BC.
Little mistake while dealing axes and Lizzy got over me. I really should have let over the worker as a bait.

Such a shame, because I got her after stealing her worker.

 

[Mylene]

I built Oracle >>> Aestetics, then TGL + NE quick with marble..
My only chance here cos i settled on PH, resulting in this Capi..no cottage love surely

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

I will tech Natio during a 2nd GA in 2 turns, then farm 2 more GS (unless Sid decides to give me another great priest -.-) for bulbing 2nd part of Edu, and Lib.
And cross my fingers 13 city Willy will feel the wrath of my Riders of Rohan (wink Lymo) before he gets bad ideas and grows even bigger ~~

Tech pace was crazy in my game so far..they traded Philo and music with each other, how often do you see that oO

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

My biggest mistake (so far) was settling Thessa with gold in 2nd ring, that made oracle a really really lucky shot..

 

[Orion071]

Well, I really have no shot at winning this game, but at least I'm still alive.

I settled in place and saw a nice little 2nd city spot with Cows, Corn and Ivory. So England plops York near there on like turn 3, which set the tone for the game. I managed to carve out 5 cities, while England has about 824 (or so it seems).

The only reason I'm still alive is because England, the Dutch and I are all Hindu. Babylon is not, and he declared on the Dutch very early. I thought I might try to help out my friend, but I went to Babylon's city in the NW that's cutting me off from the rest of the continent and it had 21 units in it! I think my entire army (including Workers) at that point was 9. So I stayed well out of it.

I manged to pop Philosophy with a GS and trade it for some things, but I'm woefully behind. I haven't met all of the AI's yet, so maybe I can find some backwards civs and trade some more. But the tech pace is insane and my tiny empire won't cut it. I'm basically just waiting for Babylon to put me out of my misery. That's if I ever bother to even finish this game. Deity is just no fun.

 

[Manco Capac]

That's if I ever bother to even finish this game. Deity is just no fun.

You should pursue. If it wasn't my "full of myself looking at that british archer not capturing my empty capital (typical idiot AI)" and "being too greedy/slacking", I would be stealing a bunch of workers right now and make Lizzy suffers.

Instead, she stomped my workers and cities with chariots (why did I move my guarding axe of that horse plot!).

Damn...I had a plan all set for this game....

----

Goodexcellent going Mylene; cuirassiers?

 

[Mylene]

Ty Tachy, yep Curis..vassaled Lizzy and Willy, sitting at ~20 cities now and will attack Hammy soon to take control of my continent.
More scared of what lies beyond fractal maps, than him finally teching something useful that will help his military

 

[Greeder]

Well I'm alive 1AD with 6 cities. But I settled capitol on PH and my teching is just horrible. And seeing Mylene's capitol I don't even have an excuse, that it was this localization which made me so backward.
My "buddies" don't even want to give me Fishing
I'll also wait for someone "to put me out of my misery".

 

[Orion071]

My "buddies" don't even want to give me Fishing

Just out of the blue, England gave me Archery when I didn't even ask for it. They also gave me Meditation for free. But I haven't been able to get anything else out of them.

 

[Mylene]

It's a tough map, dun feel bad guys if you normally don't play deity
It's not winnable imo when not being used to deity pressure.

I figured with so many good techers around me, going Oracle was my only chance for keeping up..
could have easily failed, but without taking some chances..

Anyways, not giving barbs Archery makes this harder imo.
Mostly results in all AIs with space around them grow big very fast.
I was lucky getting 1 barb city myself, no clue why Lizzy failed taking it before me with her chariots

So..if creating an easier Deity game was intended, some added commerce near our Capi would have helped much more. When you see all good early game tiles like corn, copper mines or cows without rivers, you know you are in trouble..and teching AH before BW normally makes it worse.

 

[PattonTwo]

This was a nice looking map (from what I could see) and I look forward to reading some recaps of victories and learning from how they were achieved. For my part I survived past 1 AD (though my 1 AD save sure looks like certain defeat) which I took as a small accomplishment. I’d value any commentary on where I could have improved and will look at the other games to learn as well.

At first I felt like I’d have a shot in this game as we seemed to have a small subcontinent which could be blocked on both sides. I met the English, Dutch and Babylon by 3550 BC and saw the English cultural border to the east. I researched Agri (to farm the corn) then AH (to pasture the cow and also see if there are horses around). Then I researched pottery and cottaged the floodplains.

Having read many of the high level guides, my goal was to settle my second city as far towards the English as reasonable while still making sure it was an excellent site to try and preserve as much land as I could. Having found the Dutch cultural borders far to the northwest and getting the sense Babylon was in that area I thought I would need to contain the English ASAP and then build to the west to block off the Dutch/Babylon.

As a result I settled Thess in 2350 BC about 10-12 clicks to the east on the hill 1 tile north of the gold. On that date I had 4 warriors and 1 worker as well. There is corn which will be in my fat cross as soon as the city expands. While the English have already settled a little to the southwest of this site I expected I could keep the corn in my cross. This city placement turned out to be my greatest mistake as the city never amounted to anything and lost the culture war over the corn.

With little food I couldn’t grow the city past a 2 or 3 and it proved a significant drain on my resources until I could actually trade the gold for gpt from the AI. In retrospect if the gold was that important to me I should have settled one tile to the west of the gold with the corn directly bordering my city. I also think that settling just a little north of our capital to claim the marble and wheat (my 3rd city went here) or a little southwest on the hill bordering the horses and the sheep would have been far more profitable city locations.

Neither of those would have helped contain the English which was (perhaps mistakenly?) my biggest concern at that moment.

My placement of Thess almost proved disasterous when 2 turns later a significant amount of barbarians appeared only 2 clicks north of Thess. I wasn’t well positioned with only 1 warrior in thess and a 2nd in the area. I immediately went into panic mode rushing my capital’s lone defender (other warrior was off to the northwest) towards Thess. He arrived just in time to sacrifice himself in the open to distract the barbs for a turn so my 2 Thess defenders didn’t have to face 5 barbs at once. I managed to survive with Thess intact though I well could have lost it to the barbs right there.

I also paused my 2nd settler who was about to be built at that moment to build another warrior and as a result Adrian was settled in 2100 BC to the north just below the mountains which would give me the marble and corn in my fat cross once the city expanded. In 2100 I still had 4 warriors (having lost one to the barbs) and 1 worker with the capital close to building the 2nd worker.

After founding Adrian I made my second mistake which was somewhat caused by the first. I didn’t continue expanding because my research was already dropping and I realized the next city I added would probably bring my research down to 10% or 20%. My gameplan was to turn the capital into a massive science city and go after Aesthetics and GS to eventually bulb Liberalism. I didn’t think I could afford my science rate to be at 20% before I got to Aesthetics.

Tech wise after pottery I researched mining and bronze working (instead of archery first) and once I discovered we had copper I never researched archery and went straight for writing.

Had my second city not been such a waste I probably could have slipped a 4th city in around 1800 BC and maybe (not sure) a 5th city by 1400 BC. As it was I discovered Writing (last) in 1325 BC and find that Aesthetics is 59 turns away! So much for my grand plan. My science improved as I built my library and I completed Aesthetics (first!) in 600 BC.

I pushed on to Literature for TGL and discovered that (also first) in 395 BC. Unfortunately that same turn I received notice my game was officially lost as England declared war. I was only 1/3 of their power so I’m surprised they waited that long. Frankly the only reason I was still alive in 1 AD is because the AI clearly has no clue how to wage this war. I should have lost Thess immediately but still hadn’t lost a city by 1 AD.

I did manage to complete TGL in 305 BC so that part of my plan did work. However with only 4 cities in my “empire” (I managed to take/lose/retake one of England’s cities about 5 times) I truly had no chance. The other civs were a dozen or more techs ahead of me and the endless war with England required me to build mostly axmen which the AI should have chewed up with his chariots though he didn’t handle it well enough.

At 1 AD my population was 10 citizens in 4 cities and no real hope. At this point I’m just waiting for England to get busy making more War Elephants, Catapults and Swordsmen (or whatever even better units are soon to appear) and then wipe me out.

The placement of my second city really killed me as did slowing down my expansion and delaying until after 1000 BC to think about building my 4th city (by which point there was no land left) yet I don’t know how I could have maintained enough research if I had continued expanding. Perhaps a better choice for the 2nd city location would have let me continue expanding and I might have still limited England a little.

Thanks for the shot at Deity, I probably won’t post a recap in the next thread since anyone looking at my current game can predict a loss in the very near future.


@Mylene. what a great game you have going. You clearly got your first city up faster than I did, would be curious when you settled it and what your initial build order was in your capital. I was sending my 1st settler to the same area you settled yours in but england beat me to it so I need to learn how to get that settler out sooner.

 

[Mylene]

@Patton think i teched Agri, mining/BW first, and settler with size 2.
Settling on PH speeds up things nicely early (besides research)
Bit faster worker, and only improving corn and 1 mine needed.

 

[Manco Capac]

@Patton think i teched Agri, mining/BW first, and settler with size 2.
Settling on PH speeds up things nicely early (besides research)
Bit faster worker, and only improving corn and 1 mine needed.

Hmmm. When did you get your settler? Just curious.

Let's assume 18 turns for the worker, 11 turns (was it?) for a warrior while working the corn tile, then you have gone straight for settler for ~14 turns.

I wonder if my pattern had some justifications.

Since I had wheel, I had in mind to do something a bit outrageous (and considered madness on deity) : stealing a worker. I was glad to find Lizzy and she didn't meet anyone the moment I stole the worker(known thanks to EP).

In the line of thought to defend myself and ultimately thanks to warriors get 2 woodsman II axes (enslavers), I chose Mining --> BW right away.

Good sides:
I know where is copper as fast as possible and I can connect it.
Building a settler with imperialistic trait makes the use of green hillls as strong as using corn I think ; 2 (capital) + 6 (hills) + 4 (IMP) for a total of 12 per turn. With the corn, I think we get instead 11 per turn ( thus the settler goes out one turn later or even more with chopping?). Indeed copper in BFC helped even more but I ignored it in my calculi because it is kind of factor we can't ganrantee usually.

BUT, there is a downside of a corn not improved yet: once the settler is out, another one of warriors are best given the impossibility to grow more efficiently.

Anyways, in a really early war, I wanted to be mobilized fast to defend and milk some GG points.

All in all, conservative play and cuirassiers invasion are best and I would have probably failed at one moment as I had in mind a catapract invasion along Engineering+Machinery bulbs (I chose Poly instead of Med for Oracle). With those crazy techers, castles would have arrived too early I guess.

Now, I have to wait 4 months before next deity challenge. Time to practice...

 

[Xcalibrator]

At 1AD I am, uh, not researching Nationalism, nor did I even try for the Oracle. Geez, Mylene! But I am still alive, and have 9 cities. I moved the settler to the PH but was dismayed by all the jungle (and couldn't see the bananas) and went back to where we started. My exploring warrior got trapped on the peninsula to our SE when London's culture expanded. . He only escaped when culture from a new city on the peninsula (which become the Confucian Holy City) pushed me out. I therefore had a very slow start on finding the other civs' cities and getting trade routes. My second city went SW to get the horses. After that I captured 2 barb cities (Mylene's Carib and Hun) and then took 3 cities (including London) from Liz with axes. In a second war I just barely captured a 4th, the Confucian Holy City. Everyone on our continent is Confucian, although Liz also founded Taoism. The other religions were founded overseas, and I noted that one civ over there has already been eliminated! Don't know if that's good or bad for me, and who knows if I'll ever see who's over there. My 9th city (3rd founded) went S by the seafood.

I'll need cats to make any further progress against Liz (who still has 4 cities, now with longbows) but I should be able to take her out. I managed to do a little tech trading but am now so far behind I don't think that'll be possible again. Just got Monarchy (big help with the happiness) and have started Calendar, hoping to trade my extra resources for gold. On the bright side, London had the ToA and another English city had the Great Lighthouse. I have the Confucian Holy City but it's going to be quite awhile before I can generate a Prophet for a shrine. That'll be a big help if/when it comes. Babylon is becoming a beast (13 cities if I recall) but I'm sorta kinda keeping up with the Dutch--not in tech, though. I think my only hope is to finish off Liz, then mercilessly whip units (maces and catapults?) and try to overwhelm Willem with sheer numbers, cuz I'm never going to have a tech advantage. I've never won a "real" Deity game and that probably won't change with this, but I should be able to survive to the bitter end.

Edit: Found my notes! I'm making 40 bpt @20% breakeven--maintenance is killing me and I don't have CoL for courthouses nor Caste System to run lots of specs. Population 40 with 9 cities. The unmet overseas civ was destroyed 185 BC. Early techs were Agri, AH, Pottery, Writing, Alpha and I think I managed to trade for Fishing, Mining, Hunting, BW, and Sailing--very few if any trades after that. Canterbury on the north English coast had the Great Lighthouse. Liz still has 4 cities, N of me with marble and wheat, a big one out east, and 2 more cities up in the jungly peninsula.

 

[Mylene]

Hmmm. When did you get your settler? Just curious.

Not sure i remember, sorry :-/
As quick as possible usually thou, with IMP that's size 2.

 

[srad]

I think you guessed it .... things did not go well:

1. SIP
2. Stole worker from Liz.
3. Liz settle third city on ivory
4. Got angry and built axes ... broke my economy and lost almost all axes to her archers...
5. Quit

.......................................
Tried some other variants but this is really though; commerce is missing and I'm always so backwards. I'm not used to the Deity pressure....

 

[Manco Capac]

^
Hello fellow Monty.

Small trick for you when worker stealing.
Worker stealing shouldn't limited to worker stealing; control the AI future settlements. Occupy the location the AI is about to settle with whatever unit (even a worker...I guess) and suddenly the settler+escort will go away. Escorts don't attack unless the settler go away and then the Archers have a new mission.

But if you find an archer stuck to a place with a fortification bonus, then the location is already secured (too late). That archer's purpose is to nullify barb city popping. Under such circumstance, you may scare off the settler around the BFC (outside BFC the settler+escort will pursue), but that is risky.

 

[srad]

Yeah, thanks for the hint! During one of my tests after my short adventure in the deity world I observed this behavior.

Stealing a worker (or some more) and then choking Liz's expansion could be a way. Looks like Mylene was able to grab the ivory and the gold site without war.

Am I right?

 

[Manco Capac]

Yeah, thanks for the hint! During one of my tests after my short adventure in the deity world I observed this behavior.

Stealing a worker (or some more) and then choking Liz's expansion could be a way. Looks like Mylene was able to grab the ivory and the gold site without war.

Am I right?

It is not limited to deity. From settler to deity, an AI is an AI, which means an idiot.
K-Mod or BBAI (I think) corrected many behaviours that are considered completely absurd (like choking is harder?), but BUG decided to keep all the package clean, including nonsensical behaviours. Having quite played marathon in the past, I've seen lots of weird stuff. Deity, unfortunately, has fewer options, but some still are workable. Even now, I still find new tricks.

In regards to Mylene, I can assure she didn't have luck at all in regards to Lizzy third city: AI has its personal list of location value for cities and they always go for the highest first, unless too far. She did the same as me, starting at pop 2 a settler, and I think Lizzy capital sucks so hard (cow and horses where AH was teched around 2000 BC ) she had time to get the gold location. Indeed, the critical move for a good game.

 

[srad]

@Mylene

Where did Liz settled her second city in your game?

In my game and all my retries she put it 2E1S of the cows below the ivory. So she had the cows and the corn in her second ring.

 

[Mylene]

Checked with retire, seems i founded Thessa 2700BC and Liz Nottingham 2950BC..
(could be i waited till size 3 or built a 2nd warri, really cannot remember ~~ i'd think size 2 would have been better)
There's always some luck in Deity games, she settled York northeast and Notti south.
So @Tachy, i got lucky with that spot. But it's not a game breaking spot if lost.

Only 1 try works well up to Imm, but on Deity many good players will be out early..so i would recommend giving 2nd chances here.
..or put AIs a bit further away from player starting loc