BOTM 53 -- First Spoiler to 1AD

Tell us what happened up to 3000BC, first:
Whcih door did you go through and where did you settle? When and why?


Settled on turn 4 (because that is how long it took to get there :mischief:) on the plain hill north of the western deer at door 3. As I already indicated in the pre game tread. With hunting, I like the two deers, wanted the 2H city square, and wanted the river.

What were your first 3 technologies researched? Why?


Meditation, AH, writting... I was going for an early oracle CS sling, but was also going to build a settler before the library, so I had time (since I did not need any worker tech) to squeeze in meditation and take a stab at the religion. It worked!

What were your first 4 city builds?

City 2 on the marble, a very decent site, nice and closed, and appropriate for the oracle sling. Did this very early, building the settler at size two, right after worker and one warrior.

City 3 was an aggresive block... It went on the incense east of the Gold, managing a full block of Toku, and reserving the entirity of area 2 for myself. I was initially planing to put city 3 at Rice-Pig-Dear to the east to block Gilgi, but Gilgy beat me to that area.

City 4 then went to the gold site (picking up that copper as well).

At 1 AD, I am sitting at 8 city, all peacefull acquired (1 conquered from the barbs), with land reserved for another 4 (not including door 1, which I might still get, but I doubt it).

Then tell us about your game up to 1AD.
How are things going? Do you feel like you got 'zonked'?


Its noble, so there was never any real question of being in danger. The progess feel OK, but nothing special.

Seen any action yet? How do you like your neighbors?

I dont expect that Noble neighbours will be relevant to a peaceful game. They can all research enough to backfill at Alpha, and are unlikely to be relevant after that.

What were your goals to this point, and did you acheive them?

Develloping the empire on the path to Education, and then liberalism. Likely heading to space.

Have you come up with any creative ideas or strategies specific to this game?

I like my block move at city 3, but for the rest, this seems pretty cookie-cutter. The lack of a need for worker tech means I made a pass at a religion, but have not made aggresive use of that, so it is not a big difference from the norm.
 
Settled on PH SW from the "Door #3" sign. Wanted both deers and some other workable tiles (hills in this case) for a fast start. First builds were worker -> warrior -> warrior (partly) -> settler -> warrior (finish). Early techs were Mining -> BW -> AH.

Oracled CoL for Caste, religion & altars in 1280BC, REXed to 10 cities by 550BC with all doors covered. Before the game began I thought to take other doors asap but I actually didn't do so: city #5 went close to Door #2 and maybe city #8 or #9 to Door #1. Built Mids for Repre specialists too late in 300BC.

That's the good news. Bad news started in 100BC when Gilgamesh DoWed me with my pants down. His initial "SoD" of 3 vultures, sword & 2 chariots looked very frightening as I had only warriors sitting in cities at the time and even no metal connected. Luckily he gave me a couple of turns to prepare so I managed to hook iron and copper and get a couple of units built. My 2 unpromoted (and just built) axes basically won the fight for me and backup-archers didn't even see any action.

This unwanted DoW made me take a detour to HBR as it's the best war-tech around. HAs will be available in 1-2 turns now and then it's time to take advantage from a big empire and turn the tides...

In 1AD I have 12 peacefully settled cities and pretty bad economy. I can tech well with specialists once I get enough HAs to crush AIs around. Stalin has GLH so I think I need to take him down once I'm finished with Gilgamesh. Then I'll try to tech/bulb up to Astro and see what happens. Probably domination incoming as usual. :D
 
Nonstop warfare ... very boring.
Did not finish.

I am sorry you did not enjoy it. :( Certainly the Aggressive AI setting makes military power (and the diplomatic efforts required to avoid warfare) more important.

Please do not take the following as criticism... its intended as friendly advice. I believe that whether you have nonstop warfare or not is largely dependant on how YOU choose to play and the choices YOU make (intentionally or not). Winning war quickly is a skill that can be developed, and doing so in a way that builds up diplomatic friendships is a very useful tactic for Civ in general.

I would implore you to read through spoilers and see how some others managed to prevent their game from being nonstop warfare. It might improve your enjoyment of a wider variety of civ games/settings and make for a richer experience. (Of course, some people just like smashing things anyhow, so we gotm staffers must endeavor to provide the variety to cater to many different preferences :ar15:). Hope you enjoy the next one better!:cool:
 
How did you get into a situation of non-stop warefare?

I ask because I did nothing out of the ordinary, and had not even seen a red fist by 1ad.

Did you either adope a contrarian religion really early, or maybe try some early worker steal?

The personalities were aggresive, true (both by setting and by nature), but distances to them were all rather large, and they had room to expand (no one was boxed in), so it actually seemed to me like keeping the peace early on was actually easier than normal.
 
The personalities were aggresive, true (both by setting and by nature), but distances to them were all rather large, and they had room to expand (no one was boxed in), so it actually seemed to me like keeping the peace early on was actually easier than normal.
Keeping peace early on was easy as everybody was so far away. However, at least I expanded rather fast and soon shared borders with almost everybody available. After that, sharing a religion wasn't enough to hold AIs at bay. I'm rather bad in managing diplo so I try to play in such a way that I can handle everything by force... :D

BTW, has anybody made analysis about how expensive each city after another is when only maintenance from number of cities is considered? Are there any "sweet spots" for number of cities or a big increase in cost at some point? Of course a city with good resources around gets productive fast, no matter how much it costs, or any coastal city is good if you have GLH, but should I try to aim for certain city numbers?
 
I think I was at +12 relationship at 1AD with Carthaginans or whoever it is that's to our east. I spread confu to him and converted when he asked, that plus giving in to a demand for tech gave most of that +12. It was nice to have someone to trade with. :)

@Asterix that sounds like an artificially narrow analysis, as clearly city maintenance ins't the only thing that counts? I might be wrong but I think the # of cities maintenance is capped at 7gpt... I seem to remember in a recent Immortal game I had 25+ cities but they were only being charged 3.5 gold (thanks to courthouse) maintenance for city count each.
 
BTW, has anybody made analysis about how expensive each city after another is when only maintenance from number of cities is considered? Are there any "sweet spots" for number of cities or a big increase in cost at some point? Of course a city with good resources around gets productive fast, no matter how much it costs, or any coastal city is good if you have GLH, but should I try to aim for certain city numbers?

This thread describes costs for a growing empire.
 
I am sorry you did not enjoy it. :( Certainly the Aggressive AI setting makes military power (and the diplomatic efforts required to avoid warfare) more important.

Please do not take the following as criticism... its intended as friendly advice. I believe that whether you have nonstop warfare or not is largely dependant on how YOU choose to play and the choices YOU make (intentionally or not). Winning war quickly is a skill that can be developed, and doing so in a way that builds up diplomatic friendships is a very useful tactic for Civ in general.

I would implore you to read through spoilers and see how some others managed to prevent their game from being nonstop warfare. It might improve your enjoyment of a wider variety of civ games/settings and make for a richer experience. (Of course, some people just like smashing things anyhow, so we gotm staffers must endeavor to provide the variety to cater to many different preferences :ar15:). Hope you enjoy the next one better!:cool:

LOL - that isn't criticism ... I started the war, then got dogpiled ... I've never enjoyed fighting my way out of dogpiles.

RE: War - I gained what I intended from the conflict and made peace with the the two civs I attacked ... the other civs, well they refused all attempts at peace.
Been there done that ... not interested in doing it again.

I apologize for leaving the impression I did not have FUN 8)
I simply wasn't interested in pursuing victory from the current situation.
I had quite a bit of FUN 8) up to the point of nonstop war.

:goodjob:
 
Tell us what happened up to 3000BC, first:...
Which door did you go through and where did you settle? When and why?


Like most here did, I chose Door 3 as well. 2x Deer and Pigs, as well as a few hills, while starting with Hunting, made that an easy choice for me.

I settled Tenochtitlan on the PH, W of the lake, on the river. That left the Pigs outside the BFC, but they were meant for another city. That location gave me the extra :hammers:, as well as some hills and green, riverside tiles for my cottages.

I didn't choose Door 1, because I don't like coastal capitals that much, and I didn't choose Door 2, because there were no hills in sight.

What were your first 3 technologies researched? Why?

Starting techs were Mining > BW > Agriculture > The Wheel > AH > Pottery, to get some hammers in the Capital, pasture the Pigs for city #2 and then being able to build some cottages.

That was followed by Writing > Meditation > Priesthood > Mathematics > CoL, in order to Oracle-sling Civil Service.
That was done successfully in 600BC, but having read the other spoilers, it seems I was a bit lucky here! :cool:

What were your first 4 city builds?

Worker > 3x Warrior > Settler > Worker > Warrior.

No Barb-problems at all, and my initial Scout is still alive in 1AD, although he scouted the entire continent.

Then tell us about your game up to 1AD.
How are things going? Do you feel like you got 'zonked'?


No, I don't feel 'zonked'. I like the lands I chose; they are nice, green and full of resources.

Cities 2 - 6:
Teotihuacan: NE of the Pigs, with Pigs and Copper (and shared Deer); later, Gems popped on the GH east of the city
Tlatelolco: a bit further away to the East, blocking off Japan and Sumeria from MY lands, with Rice, Pigs and Wine
Texcoco: south of Tlatelolco, to complete the blocking of Sumeria, with Deer and Spices
Tlaxcala: W of the capital, with Deer, Pigs, Wheat, Spices, Wine and Copper
Calixtlahuaca: S of the capital, with Deer, Wheat, Marble and Wine

Seen any action yet? How do you like your neighbors?

I like my neighbors. The initial plan was to conquer 1 or 2 opponents early, after the economy would be established; meeting Toku and Gilgamesh early didn't give me any doubts about that plan! :)

So far, I haven't seen any action, but it won't be long.

Japan were the first to go 'WHEOOH', but nothing ever happened, and they have changed their mind later.

Sumeria went 'WHEOOH' shortly after, and a larger stack of 7 - 8 units showed up near my blocking city, so I never was sure whether he planned to attack Toku or me.

In the meantime, I had started building my Axes, and I was never afraid of a DOW.

As of 1AD, Gilgamesh still hasn't DOWed anyone, and I have 11 Axes and 4 Cats sitting in that blocking city, with another 4 Cats on their way. Once they have arrived, I'll start the action, if Gilgamesh remains undecided. Whether it will be Japan or Sumeria first, depends on what Gilga does with his stack.
Ideally, it will be Japan first, because Gilgamesh can't expand anymore ...

What were your goals to this point, and did you acheive them?

Goals were to Oracle-sling CS, expand peacefully while building up an economy and then getting ready for some wars.

Oracle-CS was luckily done, the economy is stable (slider at 60% = +3:gold: and 100:science: per turn; Civil Service, Construction, Monarchy and Currency are researched, and Calendar is 1 turn away) and the army (11 Axes and 8 Cats) is ready for action.
Yes, I have achieved my goals! :D

Have you come up with any creative ideas or strategies specific to this game?

Ahem, no, I guess :crazyeye:
 
This thread describes costs for a growing empire.
Thanks! :goodjob: There seems to be some spots where number of cities maintenance rises drastically but no formula for it.

@Asterix that sounds like an artificially narrow analysis, as clearly city maintenance ins't the only thing that counts?
Yes, there are many things affecting the usefulness of a new city. Distance maintenance is pretty easy to understand and you can see what tiles you get for the new city. Problem is that it's often hard to guess how much a new city will cost right after settling. I guess it's usually too situational to give any rules of thumb regarding how many cities one should have. Just try to get all food spots and worry about expenses later. :D
 
was fun game...except I lost 3 settlers to barbarians... then just rage quited about my stupidity :-)

very interesting setup with those 3 doors.
 
+1 for Door #3.
However, I settled 3S1E of the sign on t4. Got 2 deer, pigs, wine, marble and horses as a later bonus.

Not sure what I was thinking when I decided to tech Poly 1st even with a t4 settling. Obviously Hindu was found IAFAL t10, Buddhism t14, both overseas.

After I came to my senses, teched AH, found the horses in the BFC, built a few chariots and went worker-hunting and pillaging. A sumerian worker was captured 2000BC, but there were already vultures and archers in their capital and city2, so it was Toku's turn next.

After capturing a japanese settler party, I found Kyoto defended by a single archer around 1300BC. Decided to try my luck with 3 chariots, but they didn't come close to damage the archer. Some more pillaging to keep economy afloat.

After the unsuccessful gambles, I decided to be conservative and built an early Oracle (1280BC), but could only take MC from it. Some more REX, then amassed an army of axes, spears and chariots and took out Gilga by 300BC. This overexpansion and the lack of cottages almost destroyed my economy.

In 75BC I had 12g in the bank and was doing -13gpt at 100% gold slider! I was 6 turns away from Currency (need it to build wealth). I entered into strike next turn, but no unit disbanded - then captured Osaka. Gold from capturing it will be enough to fund deficit as now Currency is due in 3 turns.

With 10 cities and 38 pop, I think I have a decent base to dig myself out of this hole. I have a GS and a newly born GP waiting to bulb something worthy. Tried for a GE to rush Mids, hiring an engineer from forge, but had no luck yet. Possibly will get the continent to myself (should be enough space for 30~40 cities?), get a religion, the AP and the religious wonders then later a couple of Corps on my way to Alpha Centauri.

IIRC all 4 religions already founded and wonders (except Oracle ofc) were built overseas.

Civ4ScreenShot0165.JPG
 
I too settled door #3, and sent a settler up to #2 as quickly as possible. I did my very best to grab up as much of this wonderful land as possible while teching to IW to get enough jaguars to keep the AI off my back. Managed to get 8 cities placed and connected. Though the rapid expansion initially killed my tech speed. I am now leading in techs among the civs i have met. Getting all my resources hooked up really helped with that. Also researching Monarchy and adopting Hereditary Rule really opened things up for me this time around since i already had large standing armies in almost all my cities. The building phase that i just completed has caused me to end up a close 3rd in the power graph. Just like most of you guys there were know religions on this continent till i founded taoism recently. Genghis already converted and since he is power leader i plan to cozy up to him and together take out Gilgamesh and then taku. We will see how that goes.
 
Another unfinished game for me and this time failed to submit incomplete.

I even spent time writing a zany dialog between Monti and me up to 25 BC where I stopped the first session.

Well, now our curiosity is peaked... we want to hear that dialogue. :scan:
 
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