BOTM 62 (Tokugawa) Final Spoiler

[DynamicSpirit]

BOTM 62 Final Spoiler

So how did your game after 1AD go? Tell everyone and discuss in this thread, subject to...

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Did you win?

 

[Sleepless]

Things had gone well in my first wars. Deciding who to attack next I made the mistake of going for SB. Would have been much better to go for Isabella as SBs protective units caused me alot of pain. Plus twice having the war stopped because of the AP didn't help once I had reduced his cities/ garrisons.

So after the second war Isabella asked me to join in a war with Charlie. Duly vassalled him. Then went for Isabella. This time when the vote was called to stop the war against I defied it. I had whipped a lot of AP monasteries/temples but decided I could lose the hammers and if my pop was to unhappy I'd whip them away as well.

This time though there was enough votes to keep the war going. So then it was just a case of taking the AI as vassals. Isa - SB - Peter - Ham which put me over the domination limit in 1440.

Fun game...

 

[Manco Capac]

Nooo, why?!!!

Spoiler :

 

[neilmeister]

Ooooh, bad luck there Tachy.

My game was a buddhist love in. They didn't like me too much in the beginning as I was hindu for the first several thousand years, I deliberately left my 2 outer cites without religions hoping to catch it, and eventually I did.

Accepted a demand to switch to buddhism not too much later, from there on it was a case of trying to keep Izzy & Churchill happy, as everyone else except the Mongols was buddhist.

Missed founding Taoism by 1 turn, but in another very lucky twist, it spread to my gems city only about 5 turns later. I now have 4 religions.

Started a holy war against the Mongols, which just increased the love, so managed to not get DoWed at all.

In the end I bombed 11 GA's, but I finished the game with over 1000g due to a very stupid mistake: I put a GM to sleep in Saladins capital waiting for the right moment to make a trade route, but completely forgot about him. Before switching to Pac/Caste/FS I build up a pile of cash. I trigger a golden age with an unwanted GS (already had 2 Academies), switch all civics, then notice in the minimap that I can see some of Saladins lands.

If not for this mistake, I might have finished in the 15th Century.

 

[Manco Capac]

Spoiler :

This was a joke in that screenie, btw. He went for Pacal II for no reason just to suicide his army against a squad of axe+sword in a forest. That was hilariously stoopid. That was hilariously AI. I admit I was unnerved seeing that out of nowhere.
You should know me for my typical trolling...

I got 1580 AD. So you beat me? I would have gotten 1575 AD if I got that missing 6 culture in my third city. I forgot to switch back to my original religion where my Confu monastery probably doubled its culture. Leave me the pleasure to beat someone if I can't beat once that other bastard that hogs every culture award.

I got like 6/7 religions and most my cities went 5-6 great temples. I know that is not optimal according to Jesusin, but I wonderspamed at the most extreme ever. I even whipped wonders! That's outrageous given the penalty.

 

[neilmeister]

I saw the stack and saw that you were at war with Hannibal, and didn't join the dots that those were BK's troops.

1525ad here. I very much want this culture award too, to complete my Eptathlon.

 

[Manco Capac]

Awww I got beaten agun...that's sad.
Now, you got into my black list.

EDIT: I knew 1580 AD wasn't competitive.

 

[euripides]

got a 1350ad religious victory here. final score of 216k

After capping both hanni and churchill and milking them for tech I went for SB. stupidly the jewish ap stopped the war 1 city short of capping him. but after 10 turns my even bigger stack got him nonetheless. then i went for izzy. then peter and his vassel charly. finally hammy & sal. gk was my final project, but at 1340 the vote popped up, so 2% away from dom and only gk a free state, I took it because its a rare event for me getting religious victory.

Testing the settings in 2 prep games paid off, as the game went totally according to plan. Capturing the nice capitols of my close neighbors allowed me to crush all the other ai in tech and military production at the same time.

Still, the interior of this map was awful (poor SB). I always cringe when I see this. EVIL!

 

[nocho]

1390AD domination for 203k.

From 1AD I quickly took care of Hannibal and then went for the samurai techs and engineering for the trebs and the road movement which of course is rather crucial. Still took a while to get there, in 780AD finally declared on Izzy. She had actually inflicted a kind of useful culture bomb on me eating away at my Carthaginian possessions (with the great artist courtesy of beating me to music). She was duly punished and taken out. Next up went the HRE who was vassaled after taking the home of bud, the religion of choice for nearly the entire globe. No shrine however. I was quite lucky to pop a priest later from Madrid though. The Russians were overran too and vassalled, but given back all their earthly possessions. Then the Native Americans who also kissed the ring. This time kept nearly all cities though. By this time had worked my way to MT but avoiding education/lib for a change. Gunpowder through guilds. So the cuirs were online to take out Babylon who by now had slightly edged ahead in tech. But who cares with 2.1 power rating. The idea was to capture nearly all his cities, vassal, gift back cities and trip domination. He wouldn't talk soon enough though so killed him off and took the last few tile by settling some awful desert gaps.

Turn before last noticed that I never changed civics again after HR/OR/slavery (despite capturing mids, having CS fairly early, etc). I actually noticed because I launched my first GA then. Just 4 generated great people in the whole game I think (2 GSs for academy and philo and the priest for the bud shrine), also a record low. I guess I was just so busy warring that all else became rather secondary.

Anyway, fun game. Toku is always nice for some bloodshed.

 

[Manco Capac]

I see when a SGOTM finishes, everyone is rushing for xOTM.

 

[LincolnOfRome]

Around 1200AD or so I have number one score and ten cities. Saladin has seven cities. Others are five or less cities. I am at the top of the power charts. The situation looks good.

Carthage is the most advanced even though they only have three cities. I have been using a great wall and spy specialist powered espionage economy. Although I steal some techs, it doesn't seem as effective as running great scientists. I fall behind a little technologically. Carthage gets rifling and Spain gets Conquistadors. I have knights and muskets though most of my army is Samurai.

Isabella goes to war with the Burger King and he capitulates. Pacal and Carthage attack again. I take Pacal's capital and leave him with one city. Pacal capitulates to me. Although Hannibal has rifling, I manage to take Carthage with superior numbers of trebs, knights, and samurais.

Instead of capitulating to me, Hannibal peace vassals to Isabella. Even though Isabella is friendly with me, she joins Hannibal's war against me. I make my stand against Isabella in the gem city to the north. Although I outnumber her 2 to 1, she manages to defeat my mostly melee based army with citadel trained trebs, and conquistadors. Soon, both Isabella and Hannibal are attacking my muskets with cavalry. I am also facing BK's forces as well.

I make peace with Isabella as soon as she will talk. By this time I only have three cities. Later, she finishes me off

 

[Solyaris]

1160 AD domination

Could, and should, have been 100 years earlier, but a stupid mistake attacking 3 A.I's within a few rounds, instead of focus on 1, backfired at me. Most killed by samurais, which proved to be quite decent special unit!

189000 points

 

[Jastrow]

A sluggish space victory just before 1850. Overall, things went well, so I am not sure why I was so slow. Thinking about it, maybe the traits are just that bad for space...

Ptotective did absolutly nothing for me... Aggresive might have saved one or two turns in my campaings, but nothing at all significant.

Compairing to the other options:

Creative:
-Would have saved me running artists for borderpops in middles ages, would have had the first libraries about 5 turns easier each. Would have protected my gems from spanish culture. Maybe worth 10 turns in total.

-Expansive: The faster worker alone would have excelerated the start about 3 turns. The double speed granary would save about 5 turns per city, and since I was helth limited in many cities in the middle game, that might be another 3 or so turns. Total, maybe 10ish.

-Financial. For most of the game, finantial would add about 10 percent to commerce (the endgame, with 20 cities, should be working some 250 tiles with commerce, which is 10% of research.) That would save something like 25 turns.

-Industrious. Pyramids a ton earlier. Forges in each building. Should have saved 10-15 turns.

etc...

Maybe a combination of two good trades cuts would some 30 turns of the time, which would have made the data before 1800, and much more respectable.

 

[shulec]

I got my war machine going and was surprised at how easily the capitulations were coming. Hannibal and Pacal were gone in the BCs, and Churchill shortly after. Isabella cap'd rather quickly so i kept her for research. Same for the Burger King. Then I took down Sitting Bull who never got Longbows. Peter toppled in about four turns followed by Hammurabi. I dinked around with Saladin and Genghis to get them to capitulate on the same turn, which eventually happened. So domination and conquest, same turn to max score. +300K.

 

[Sleepless]

Nice going Shulec.. Def wise to go Isa before SB. Thats where I made my mistake. That and not defying the AP twice!!! Though to be fair if I defied the first vote in the war with SB there wouldn't have been a second one.

 

[greatbeyond]

Conquest Loss to Isabella 1971AD, Contender Save

SIP and expanded rapidly to 5 cities, with #2 being west of the copper near Pacal. Pacal had two cities and didn't seem to be much of a threat so I took on Hannibal first as his cultural expansion was pushing my borders. Converted to Judaism with Isabella who founded it. Everyone but Russia and HRE were Jewish. Finished Hannibal fairly quickly. Then consolidated my lands and built Courthouses to keep the economy afloat.
Plan was to go for Pacal and then Churchill. I took Pacal's second city but before I could finish him off an AP vote ended the war. Pacal was way ahead of everyone else on techs with only two cities, but he wouldn't trade. I waited and then a few turns after the 10 turns of peace was over, I had stack on Pacal's western borders and DOW'd, (Key mistake of the game) all of a sudden my troops were back in my own lands. Pacal had voluntarily vassaled himself to Churchill after refusing several times to vassal to me during the war and I failed to realize it. I fought Churchill's troops to a standstill and got peace without gaining or losing anything.
I prepared for war with Churchill. Pacal vacates his agreement with Churchill but rebuffs me. Pacal vassal's to Isabella at the opposite end of the map. I DOW Churchill and take all his cities except for one next to Mongolia, he offers to vassal but no techs, no cash and he doesn't have any resources. I take peace instead for Nationalism and prepare to comeback in 10 turns. He then vassals to SB.
It is Isabella and I trading places at the top of the scoreboard with Saladin behind. I sign a Def pact with Saladin.
SB decides to DOW and is fought off while I build some troops and then Isabella enters the war. I take 3 of SB's cities, but he won't vassal and I need to refocus. I take peace after Isabella and her Vassals, Russia and the HRE settle for peace. Then Saladin and his vassal Hammy settle.
I ratchet up my research and start ripping through the techs, going for space as with the vassal alignments a UN win is a no go. Hammy breaks free of Saladin and Russia goes to Saladin.

How things stand circa 1920AD:
Isabella, HRE, Pacal.
Saladin, Russia, SB and Churchill with a defensive pact with Japan.
Japan
Hammy (owns the UN)

Pacal is 3 or 4 techs ahead of everyone with only 2 cities. How is he doing that?
Isabella was ~+10 and her and I are about even. She is making demands for civics changes and her vassals are making demands for embargoes.
Isabella DOWs and is at war with everyone but her vassals and Hammy who is in last place and all by himself. (now that makes sense!) I have a lot of troops but it turns out Isabella is about a generation ahead and makes me the primary focus of her attacks. She takes all of the former Carthage lands and 1 of my cities. My production of better units gears up as she starts to get hammered by Saladin and other allies. The Kyoto is turning out 1 tank or Marine every turn with 2 promotions. I take back all of the cities Isabella took but 1 and try to get a temporary peace. Instead she makes peace with Saladin and starts to grind away at me again. It is inevitable, she refuses all offers of peace and In 1971 she takes my last city.

The whole game Pacal was a research powerhouse even though he had only his capitol and later one other city. I would love to watch the AI growth in worldbuilder and see how it was possible.

 

[shulec]

Nice going Shulec.. Def wise to go Isa before SB. Thats where I made my mistake. That and not defying the AP twice!!! Though to be fair if I defied the first vote in the war with SB there wouldn't have been a second one.

I was actually lucky that Sitting Bull never got longbows before I cap'd him. I figured I would kill him when I had stronger units. It turned out that once I got trebs, it was easy.

 

[chessplaya]

After finishing off Hannibal before 1AD, I planned to capture as many of Churchill and Pacal's cities as possible using my army of swords+axes+catapults, with upgrades to samurai and trebs as available, while teching toward cavalry. This didn't work quite as well as I hoped. Churchill got magic protective longbows around 50AD and Pacal settled a city halfway across the world, so I had to declare against both of them twice. This generated a lot of "You declared war on our friend" anger, and only Izzy shared my religion, so I had made a lot of enemies by 1200AD, when I finally finished off Churchill and saw this:

Spoiler :

Both Sal and GK declared on me the next turn (GK was because Peter peace-vassaled to him. He never sent a stack). I was shocked that Sal managed to travel half-way across the world with such a big stack. Fortunately I already had Military Tradition and I was only a few turns away from Rifling. Sal's army captured two of my cities, but quickly took them back and wiped out his stack. I did make the mistake of garrisoning a bunch of samurai in one of the cities and upgrading two of them to rifles because I thought I could hold it (I couldn't). Anyway, no one had a counter to my cavalry so after that I won easily by domination in 1530AD with a score just over 240000.

 

[jesusin]

jesusin, contender. Goal: Fastest Cultural Victory. Result: 1530AD Cultural Victory.

Built HG. Dowed Churchill. He got lbs the following turn (but only 1 per city, he must be short of money), so I attacked without softening the defenses first. Anyway, Catapult collateral damage is amazing.

Trade for Currency the same turn I take London, with GLH. My economy is saved now, although my research rate is horrible.
Take the closest Churchill city and make peace, not interested in any other cities now I have the needed 9.

It's 275AD, let's recap:
I am first to Music.
My 3 Legendary will be capital (GPFarm), second city W with the FPs (Cottages and WW, and Mutai (Moai and WW).
I have 3 religions, 1 from Pacal, 1 from Churchill and bulbed Philo (too late for Sistine's-powered-temples&Monasteries to get their culture doubled).
I have 9 cities but only now I realize this is a small map and I only needed 6.
Land is horrible, I'll get a decent number of GAs but nothing impressive, no cottages to speak of.


All my cities start building wealth. Bulb Philo and Educ.

Defy the resolution to give London back. Big hit on happiness and hammers, no hit on relations (?).
SB dows me by surprise. Just reject them.
Unlucky GE at 66% GA odds, burnt it in a Golden Age to revolt to Bureaucracy, Castes, Pacif 580AD. Change religions too to go with the masses.

Liberalism and FS 840AD. End of research.
Unlucky GE at 90% GA odds. Use it in Univ of Sank to get some research going towards Constitution.

1000AD Stats: 9 cities, 93 pop, 8 workers, 41units (7WE), 5 strategic resources, 6 luxury resources, 7 health resources, 6 great people, 4 world wonders, 2 national wonders, food/production/commerce=201-133-1414, 67 sustainable beakers per turn, 940 culture per turn(useful), 207 great person points per turn, 800 gold. 3 religions. 9/9 cottages used, 37 Techs: Liber, Music, MC, Drama, Feud, Natio, no Machi. 2 civs killed. 16 hours played. reli/city, temples, caths== 25,21,8

MoM, Hermitage, TajMah, HE.
Revolt to Representation while in GAge, now we are researching for the first time in the game. Go for PP and Mercantilism.

Banking in, I can do nothing or revolt to Mercantilism. By doing so I risk losing a turn, but if a GP is a GA I'll finish before 1500AD. Let's for for it.
GM from Economy. A GM is born at 77% GA odds. Bummer.

Victory 1530AD. Multipliers 4.5-3.5-3.5, bombs 0-6-6, base cpt 190-150-150.
GP usage: 2GS Philo&Educ, 2GE Gage&UnivofSank, 2GM useless, 12GA bombed, total 18GP, 2 of them for free.

 

[jesusin]

1525ad here.

Hail, master of culture! Won't you teach me your tricks?

For example, I'd appreciate:

Liberalism date?
Number of cottages?
3 Legendary cities chosen?

I very much want this culture award too, to complete my Eptathlon.

You know, I was in sore need of that Award too.