BOTM 79 Final Spoiler

[Deckhand]

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BOTM 79 Final Spoiler

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So how did your game after 1AD go?

Tell everyone and discuss in this thread, subject to...

Reading Requirements

Stop! If you are participating in BOTM 79, then you MUST NOT read this thread unless

• You have submitted your entry
• You will not submit you game

Posting Restrictions

• Do not post any savegame file from the game. Discussions and screenshots are fine but not actual games.

 

[PattonTwo]

Great and fun game. Nice and easy for a change. =) I won a conquest victory in 1310AD. I'm sure many will be vastly faster than that but for me it was the best score I've had, around 130k. Again thanks for the nice start and the fun game!

 

[Ororo]

Conquest 300 AD.

I settled my first two cities in the starting oasis and built a couple of warriors/scouts to quickly gain some map knowledge. As soon as I realised I was in the middle of a circle-shaped map I decided to rush everyone with Horse Archers. I settled my third city NE to grab Horses and built a quick Great Wall in the meantime. Then it was just a nonstop spam of Horse Archers (notice how minimalistic my infrastructure was). The workers I captured were almost exclusively used to chop forests and connect the newly-acquired cities via roads.

Spoiler :

 

[zbgayumn]

I went 2E1S, I think, for my capital and then the 2nd city picked up the rest of the inner ring without too much desert. By the time I put the 3rd city on the all-flood plain site, I was thinking culture was the way to go.

I was really confused when I was practically overrun by AI workers building roads, although I was grateful that they hooked up some more of my resources. It was only much later that I realized what was going on. Starting the AI with two cities on opposite sides of the map definitely seemed to hinder them.

Anyway, on my way to a culture game I built the AP and then realized that I might be able to get a quick Religious victory. I switched to that plan, but on the first vote I missed victory by 2 votes (96 of 98). After that, I had to work a lot on improving relations, and I went through many more votes. I converted the Americans and the Aussies, but with one of them as my rival I still couldn't win. It was almost a mistake that finally got me the win. I bribed the Dutch into converting, and when their vote total doubled they actually became my rival, which I did not expect. Then the Americans and Aussies voted with me and I had it. My first Religious victory, so that's cool. Given how most of the world feels about the World Cup, I think it's an appropriate VC.

 

[whb]

I put the capital 1 sq west of the oases, and the second city 1 sq east of them.

From then on, I was settling all those lovely floodplains -- each time trying to ensure there was one production square inside the city's cross for production (except of course I then went on a whip frenzy so perhaps there wasn't much point).

With so many flood plain cottages, and all the opponents dogged by maintenance costs, it was a bit of a cruise. I didn't go for the early conquest as I just wanted to settle all those flood plains!

I think by the time settling was done, I had 23 cities to my nearest competitor's 13. Techs were coming about every 3 or 4 turns.

In the middle of the game, America kept trying to pull religious victory votes, so after my experience last time, I beelined Mass Media with the intent of invading him and taking it off the table. When I declared, I discovered I hadn't spotted he'd signed a defensive pact with Portugal, who had Australia as a vassal. Oh well.

I think by the time I'd crunched them down I had tanks... no particular threat, but I probably delayed victory by a long time fighting a half-hearted war.

In the end, largely though laziness, I ended up with a diplo victory with my space rocket ready for blast off, and only just shy of the domination land area (way over for pop). I was momentarily thinking about trying to set off three victories in the same turn, but didn't try to time it in the end.

Fun game!

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I got a 1795AD space win. I'm pretty happy about that because I've been trying and failing to break the 1800AD barrier for space wins for ages – finally done it, albeit by only 1 turn and on what turned out to be an extremely easy map.

At 1AD I had 8 cities and was hoping to Oracle education. I managed to pull that off - coordinating building the Oracle and researching paper around 100AD. A by-product was that I was able to trade maps and finally find out what the world was like.

Should've guessed it'd be a football! And wow – such lush, grassy, land everywhere! That was the point that I discovered why the AI had been so slow teching – evidently Deckhand gave each AI two cities on opposite sides of the world, and I'm guessing the maintenance costs must've totally knocked out the AIs' tech rates. Anyway I proceeded to go conquering, starting with Croatia. Unfortunately this took a lot longer than planned because – thinking that I wanted as many friends for foreign trade routes for as long as possible – I made the mistake of trying to take out Croatia completely before attacking anyone else. Of course, once I'd taken out his western lands, that meant I wasted literally centuries marching all my troops across the world to his Eastern cities, when they'd have been better off attacking a Western neighbour instead.

I also compounded the mistake by beelining democracy too early (thinking about the towns on those floodplains). That meant I was running democracy while still in the expansion phase, and even – still settling floodplains cities. Ooops! Emancipation/free speech/etc. are great for running lots of established cities, but definitely not good for building up new production-poor cities! In my worst case I think I had one city on a floodplain grow to size 10 or so without even having built its first building (a granary), thanks to no production and no slavery.

I think those two mistakes cost me a lot of turns on the victory. So I wouldn't be surprised if a few people pull off pre-1700 space wins.

 

[bcool]

Well 1575 AD is the date to beat for space victories.

I tried a bit of a different path with this game. Ended up beelining democracy like Dynamic Spirit, and kept warring to a single swords-and-cat war to take out one opponent. (Well I did go to war very late to get aluminum.--the lack of aluminum probably cost me a turn or 2 since I delayed the Apollo for the war a little bit)
I went for civil service with the oracle. I have my doubts that setting up the education bulb with the oracle is worth the wait. Your civilization isn't quite ready to build universities usually if you bulb education it seems. The earlier benefits of civil service are immediate however and give you a boost to production as well.

I got a peaceful vassal who did tech a few early techs for me and rifling. Reasonable payoff I would expect since it didn't require any additional military investment.

The AI was painfully crippled by the set up, but I liked the map and the patterns of culture sure looked a bit like a real world cup ball.

I probably was late settling all the floodplains, but late cities with mining inc and cereal mills make are real contribution.

So were the fish in the corner supposed to be a foot kicking the ball? Or like lines to show it flying through the air?

 

[Solyaris]

1550 AD space. 310k points. Fun game=)

 

[Deckhand]

Well 1575 AD is the date to beat for space victories.

1550 AD space. 310k points. Fun game=)

The fish were supposed to be a fish.

Spoiler :

They were there before the soccer theme.
I put fish in fish shape, crabs in crab shape and clams in clam shape (with a pearl) in a previous WOTM. When I remember, I will put the fish in my games as a signature.
In neilmeister's donut, he had a sushi paradise island in the middle of the map; and he had done that in other games too.

I gave the AIs some money to start, too bad it wasn't enough.

 

[Jastrow]

Well, I will not be submitting... A system crash, combined with my incompetence in moving files in the recovery means that I lost the game file and relevant autosaves....

My game would not have been special anyways... bcool is right, oracling education is just not worth it. I pulled of the oracle for education slingshot in 600 BC, and was not at all happy with the result.

I decided to go for it early on, because I first noticed slow teching with the founding dates of the first two religions (turns 11 and 27), and when my scouts had found both American and Yank territory, and I suspected that a maintenance issue was killing the tech rate and that it was a possibility.

My 6 city empire has 2 libraries, with two more being completed quickly, the the last two taking into the AD to complte. Then the universities took for ever. I would have been much better of to take a quick CS-sling, and have an extra 20 turns of beuracracy, and a better tech path instead. (especially since back-filling through trades was never an option.)

Bottom line is that when I lost my game (around 1000 AD), I was projecting a pretty mondane turn 250 alpha century landing (1700 AD), but certainly nothing very special.

 

[Ororo]

Just out of curiosity... why is everyone going for the Space Race victory? Is there anything I'm missing about the GOTM format? (I am by no means a GOTM regular)

 

[bcool]

Congrats Solyaris! Nice game with a 1550 AD space victory. It would be nice to compare games if you are willing to share any details of your game.

re: space victories

I don't think space victories are at all the most common victory to go for in gotm. I enjoy playing space games because it feels more "complete" since it takes you through all of the technologies (or most of them).

A military victory at this level of difficulty would be quite quick I have to imagine.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

My game would not have been special anyways... bcool is right, oracling education is just not worth it. I pulled of the oracle for education slingshot in 600 BC, and was not at all happy with the result.

FWIW, my education Oracle wasn't planned - it was more a case of, I realized when I was able to research paper, that the Oracle still hadn't been built, and figured I may as well try and get the research bonus from it. By that time, I had 8 cities, 3 of them high production, so building the Oracle wasn't a huge issue in terms of diverting resources. Whether it was useful for me? Hard to tell. As I recall I did build several universities quickly (Several floodplain cities were growing so quickly that it was easy to whip them, and since those were also high commerce cities, that was a minor help to research, although I wasn't ready to build Oxford) I'm sure it also shaved a few turns off the economics great merchant - dependant on education. So the tech I lost some turns on was not civil service, but metal casting (I diverted from that to research paper) which is a vey useful tech, but it only delayed by 4 turns.

Just out of curiosity... why is everyone going for the Space Race victory? Is there anything I'm missing about the GOTM format? (I am by no means a GOTM regular)

I'm speculating but it may be just random, or perhaps because the map leant itself to an early space race (tons of fertile land so easy to build up a good science rate). Personally I almost always go for space, partly for the same reason that bcool mentioned - you get the full game that way.

1550 AD space. 310k points. Fun game=)

Congrats. That's a very impressive date!

 

[Solyaris]

Congrats Solyaris! Nice game with a 1550 AD space victory. It would be nice to compare games if you are willing to share any details of your game.

re: space victories

I don't think space victories are at all the most common victory to go for in gotm. I enjoy playing space games because it feels more "complete" since it takes you through all of the technologies (or most of them).

A military victory at this level of difficulty would be quite quick I have to imagine.

Pre AD: Stonehenge, The great wall, Oracle (->CS), pyramids, MoM and TGL. Basicly had 1/2 central cities to build wonders while the other main city build settlers/workers. Delayed any building (library ect) untill post AD. My plan is always to get as many cities as possible, as propperly improved as possible before 200-300 AD. Its also important to understand that this map was "happy" limited, since all of your early cities could easily grow to 15+. This means that techs such as MC (forge +2), construction (ballpark +3) and pyramids (+3) increased alot in value.

@ 1 AD I had 15 cities, ~20 workers and research edu (done with music and philo.)

Post 1 AD its all about reaching MT ASAP. Edu -> nat -> gun -> MT (usualy lib. MT, but figrued it would be better to lib. biology). Then killed off America, Croatia (sitting bull) and 50% of Holland. Basicly tried to balance my area to 60-63%. Was done with this around 1050AD. Around 800-900AD I also stop making cottages and start building workshops/watermills.

Techs (post MT): chem. -> Scientific M. -> Lib (biology as free tech) -> Communism

Lean back, watch your backers skyrocket!

Watermills are btw very, very good post electricity/financial/golden age/communism. Instant 3F, 3P, 5C; almost better then a town.

Pretty sure I could have done 4-5 turns or so better if I had started my first chain golden age earlier. Wasted about 12 turns of my last golden age (@ it came after spaceship launch)

 

[Solyaris]

Just out of curiosity... why is everyone going for the Space Race victory? Is there anything I'm missing about the GOTM format? (I am by no means a GOTM regular)

I try to "follow the map" when deciding victory. This map screamed space victory considering the vast amount of floodplains=)

I never go for culture unless I have 4 religions in my cities, mainly due to some of the other players excel at culture victories. I also want 16th capell, 9 cities and 3 good cottage cities to even consider this victory condition (which dosnt happen that often).

Domination/conquest when I think I can get a good date (lower difficulties) or at higher difficulties (easiest way to win immortal/deity except for cheasy diplo win)

Diplomatic victory is kinda cheasy, and I dont like it unless its the last resort.

 

[Ororo]

Fair enough. To me, the fact that we started in the middle of everyone + the fact that the AIs built roads towards us + the fact that the AIs were so backward because of starting with the cities so far apart = clear indication to go for a Conquest victory.

Horses weren't that difficult to pick up either; if I remember correctly they were ~ 10-15 tiles NE from my capital. As soon as I finished the Great Wall I knew I would win this, the only question was when. A sub 1 AD conquest may have been doable with great micro so I am impatiently waiting if we are going to see one

I think I enjoy wars in civ far more than the build up phase so personally I don't mind not-playing "the complete game" but I absolutely respect players who do.

 

[Deckhand]

Its also important to understand that this map was "happy" limited, ...

Oh yeah, that was a big issue with neilmeister's donut.

So, I gave you silver and gold.

 

[bcool]

Thanks Solyaris for the more detailed report.

I think that I didn't expand as as aggressively as I should have. At 1AD I only had 9 cities. 9 granaries and 6 libraries and 12 workers

I wonder what the best tech to beeline really was on this map. I think at this level of difficulty and tech limited AI, I suspect a sword and cat war would be enough to conquer the world efficiently enough that beelining MT wouldn't be necessary.

Maybe I'll try it again (as corrupted as that data is--since I have prior knowledge of the map). I didn't push the game to its limits the first time though.

 

[lymond]

ha..this felt like playing on Chieftain or something

Haven't been able to submit a gotm in a while, so good to finally submit one.

I went for culture from the start but made several mistakes, the biggest of which was accidentally switching to Nationalism instead of Free Speech and not noticing for some time(just a complete brain fart). I ended up with a 1450AD Culture win that should have easily been in the 1300s if not 1200s if not for that mistake and some bad GP pops and management - a really really bad luck with missionary failures.

I settled on marble and then settled cities around the inner ring and then outward to the FPs and grabbed and a couple of high food cities near Sitting Bull for gp farm. 9 founded myself and I flipped 3 or 4 I think late game.

Felt I needed to build GW as barbs might be an issue early. Luckily only popped two Gspys all game which were good for Golden Ages anyway. The AIs build roads across the map was really helpful. I was ??? until I realized that the AIs had starts on both side of the map.

Founded 4 religions including a surprisingly very late Monotheism - wasn't expecting that. Only Hinduism spread to me from the AIs.

The L cities were okay but could have used more cottages. The locations just weren't that great. I probably should have tried to get more FPs in the cities but was trying to balance production and resources as well.

Oracled CS and built pretty much every early wonder including Mids and TGL. Actually almost forgot about MoM and Calendar until very late, but then chopped it out quickly before Taj arrived. Did not run and GA until after Taj and then had 2 more. A 4th one would have been nice.

Fought no wars the whole game. Only war was a late DOW by Joao on Sury.

Fun game. Culture was a priority for me but war would have been very fun on this map.

 

[bcool]

Well I did replay the game and won space 1545 AD. I conquered the world with war elephants and catapults. I think the lesson with these lower difficulty games really is pushing expansion to the max. Early expansion (balanced with core city development/critical wonders) and then conquering the world early, then corporations. Perhaps detouring to democracy for the statue of liberty and a dip into emancipation for financial leaders with a ton of cottages.

I too wasted 12 turns of a golden age as well so it is possible to do even better. Start the golden ages before 900 AD it seems (with the Taj and 1,2,3,4 great person GAs) Can probably go even earlier with careful management you can get the 5 great person GA too.

Higher difficulty games the expansion and war has to be more carefully balanced I think. Later conquering isn't that bad since higher difficulty AI do a better job of developing their cities and make better trading partners.