BOTM 94 Diety First Spoiler to 1AD

[Deckhand]

BOTM 94: The Great Rift

Use this thread to tell us what happened in your game, up to 1AD! How did it go?
You are truly isolated. Did anyone manage to cross the channel before Astronomy?
I think I made the trench wide enough that every civ will need Astronomy. But did any players/civs find a narrow spot?
Were you able to trade any techs or resources?
Did you meet any of the other (not known at start) civs?
Has the rest of the world been peaceful?


Stop! If you are participating in BOTM 94, then you MUST NOT read this thread unless EITHER

• You have reached at least 1 AD in your game, OR
• You have submitted your entry

Posting Restrictions

• Please do not disclose ANY events or information gained post 1 AD.
• Please do not reveal your final result if that happened after 1 AD.
• Please do not discuss the location of resources that may not show up before 1 AD. (Iron is OK, coal and oil are not)
• Please do not reveal names or locations of any civilization not accessible by galleys.
• Do not post any savegame file from the game. Discussions and screenshots are fine but not actual games.

 

[nocho]

The trench certainly isn't wide enough to need astronomy. Touching culture with the Ethiopians and Indians make it bridgeable.

In fact, the bridge with Ethiopia temporarily fell away when Aksum fell into Japanese hands, that's how I got to know Toku. The Indians were known when borders expanded on cities on the southern coast.

Didn't get to know more AIs yet, in fact, just got a first galley out with the scout on board.

Anyway, decided to settle SSW from the starting spot. I definitely wanted to have the wheat in the BFC, while wanting the riverside gold in the first ring so that the worker could get started on that right away. Basically kept on churning out settlers and workers as fast as I could, also farmed one of the flood plains to help the process a bit. Very lush land of course, with the multitude of resources out there. No barbarians made rexing even easier as did no direct AI competitors obviously. However, as our turf was reachable by AIs decided to secure the coast first (although I now realize that probably without OB they couldn't have reached anyway).

At 1 AD got 11 cities and 58 pop. Half way researching paper, tech is up to CS and philo, the latter bulbed. Another GS for an academy. A third great person coming in 3 turns. I have some hopes of securing the MoM, so would launch a GA with that one. No other wonders, got nice fail cash on Parthenon though.

The 5 AIs I know now all have between 4 to 6 cities, so this should be doable somehow.

 

[yyeah]

I setteled NW on gold, allso my plan was to settle cost first to prevent ais comming to my territory but unfortunatly Zara is Zara and he manage to establish 3 cities herem so had to take him out somehow, whiped some swords and cats and go for him. He had early CS but no MC so i wasnt worry about it,i had 8 cities then i belive but when i was rdy to attack in like couple of turns he hit machinery( nice trades) so my war extended a little bit then when i was taking out last city he vassal to toku but well that didnt stoped me i just needed to take him out of my continent.
Wonders HGs,MoM, and again i lost TGL by 1 turn next time i whip it.

Biggest problem was no trade routs for like half of game, my border pop didnt allow me to c oposite coast ( or maybe i played to quickly and and made micro mistake) so i couldnt sail there, i should be aware of it.

 

[Folket]

Exploring I saw that we had pre astronomy access to Ethiopia so I planed on the great lighthouse and hope I could keep Zara off my continent. I failed with the second part. ZZara started puting cities on my continent when I only had 3. If I realized we were playing without barbs I would have settled more aggressively.

When Zara had three cities on my continent I had enough and conquered them with horse archers. Two of them were only size 1 and I lost them. The one I kept is positioned such that I have no hope of bridging the water any time soon. I realized now that I could have settled a later city to bridge to India. With me razing two Ethiopian cities I will likly never be able to use that bridge.

8 cities, 49 pop, paper half done. Used my GM from the lighthouse for CS and build an academy with my second GP.

Ethiopia surrendered to Japan, who are now at war with the Zulu. The Zulu seems to turn into a runaway AI.

 

[Jastrow]

Settled S-SW as I felt we needed the wheat to reasonably work 3 gold mines. With poor food and no forests in capital, decided to skip slavery! First (only) civics change was a duel-revolt to beureau and caste to help expand borders and pop a scientist for the academy from a city without needing a library.

Based on the game description, I was planning to play a simple peace game, settled my side of the rift, and try for a Switzerland like UN victory...

Sometime very early on (I dont remember the date, but it was shocking to me when it happened), I saw green culture on MY side of the rift. What the heck, Zara!!!! So I decided a minor war was needed. I took both of his cities with 12 mutt units (4 cats, 2 swords, 2 axes, 2 spear and 2 chariots... He had 3 longbows, but I was lucky and only lost 2 cats and I think 2 other units), so I now control my side. This gives me enough cities on rich enough land that I am now considering peaceful space.

So, at 1AD, I have 11 cities. population 62, with one settler coming next turn, and longer term plans for two more cities to fill gaps.

Tech wise, I have Calendar, Construction, Education and Guilds finishing this turn. Oxford should complete in 14 turns.

I am currently making 335 bpt @ 100%, with enough Gold to the bank to keep going for about 10 turns (including some planed tech sales). 215 bpt at break even.

Current plan is to tech Economy and lib Constitution in the next 22 turns, and then revolt to Rep+F-Market+F-Rel using a golden age on around turn 138, and hopefully have corporation (for the trade routes) and steam power (levies) by turn 160, Bio and AS by 180...

Certainly, that would not be fast enough to beat 6 Deity AI to space on a normal map, but on a cramped small map, I hope that it will be enough to keep ahead of the tech race.

 

[Folket]

That is just an Amazing economy. I need to check your game egen IT is finished.


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk

 

[Xcalibrator]

Holy c***, guys! I am ashamed of my mere 7 cities and 37 pop. But there's only one Ethiopian city on my land and he's pretty well contained, and I have galley access to the west. 929 in score, which is 4th behind the leading Greeks (1462) who have just vassaled Zara. I settled SSW and tried for a few Wonders but the only one I got was MoM. I'll likely burn my Music Artist for a Golden Age and finish Education in 5 more turns. I'm missing Engineering, Machinery, and Feud but seem to be a little ahead of the AI overall. My scouts are just starting to explore the west---not sure exactly when to attack but I'm leaning heavily in that direction.

 

[High King J.J.]

And here I was thinking I was doing alright for a deity game!
I have only 7 cities with less population than any and so far only the Great Photon Emitter (Lighthouse) wonder. Building other wonders, Gandhi who is the only 1000+ point civ 1AD finished the MoM 125 BC. He also has Artemis, Colossus and some shrines. Greece has the AP, Buttism seems to be the fashion with only Gandhi Hinduing alone. Some civs (Japan and Zulu) are yet unmet but I learned their identity from this thread.

The AI has been warring actively, lots of GGenerals born. I saw Ethiopia's borders early and settled accordingly to block his expansion across the Rift. Once I settle the last 4 sites I can finally open borders with him and not need to worry about uninvited settlers.

Trading has been good, only a few resources traded but more for gold and tech-wise I'm amazingly close to equal. Alex has the greatest lead in tech while Hammy is behind everyone.

Now my greatest challenge is to get Buttism spreading since it's the AP religion. And to keep trespassers away.

Great game, for once a deity I can (maybe) survive thanks to the isolated start, lots of land and rich resources. I settled SW and that left the only iron just outside the BFC, D'oh!

At best I've seen "Freddy the Mediocre Mediocre" on the greatest whatever listings, probably on largest civs list.

Xcalibrator, you give me hope that not everyone has 10+ cities at 1AD.

 

[Cat Behemoth]

At this time I've just started conquesting Qin Shi. Zara found 5 cities on my cite and made them his overseas colony, putting chinese civilization into the game.

 

[enKage]

OMG what a weak start I have! Only 6 cities, but 2 more in 2 turns. Lost Oracle because I thought I would be able to Oracle CS and lost it by 4 turns or so.

I settled directly on gold 1SE for production bonus. Now as I just revolted to CS want to get rid of Zara of my sub continent

 

[Jastrow]

CS-sling attempt on Deity. Now that takes guts. I pretty much never even try for any early wonder on Deity. Missing by only 4 turns! That would have been an amazing coop had it come in.

 

[enKage]

It is because Fred is philo and because hard commerce, lotrs of forest in 2nd city. A worker at the start gave that chance

 

[Minou]

Settled 1S on the Gold PH. Early game was uneventful expansion. I made a late attempt at the Oracle and lost it by a few turns - a forest chop I thought would go to that city but went to an equidistant city might have made the difference. Not sure if whipping the second city down would have re-directed the chop hammers….

Reading the spoilers, I seem to have gotten lucky. As in most games, Zara landed on my shores and founded three cities. But he then freed them as a colony (Elizabeth). I thought colonies got all their master's techs at emancipation, but for whatever reason there were mostly Warriors guarding those cities and so they fell very easily to a couple swords and chariots. Unfortunately all three cities were poorly placed and had to be razed and re-settled.

My main obstacle has been that I have not been able to get across to the main continent. Apparently I failed to settle on some key tile to see across the channel and it is too late now, so I may need to get to Optics to meet Shaka and Toku (not yet seen, but known from being peoples worst enemies).

So far I am keeping up well in the tech race but the AIs are very stingy about trading. At 1 AD have 10 cities with 42 pop and 28 techs. First GS was used for an Academy and the GA from Music will be used for a Golden Age (hopefully the turn Massoleum finishes if I win the race). It may be a stretch to finish the game before the deadline but I might try for Space and maybe even try nukes for the first time.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I played adventurer, so my game was at emperor, not deity level.

I followed my plan from the pregame discussion of settling 1S on the gold-plains-hill to get an extra production and avoid wasting the flood plain. And immediately discovered the problem with that plan: It meant there was nothing the worker could do for the next 5 turns until the border pop. What I think would have been a sensible move with a 'normal' start wasn't so good when we started with the extra worker.

I thought about a CS slingshot with all the gold and floodplains and the nearby marble, but the Oracle went really early - before I'd even started building it.

Anyway, by 1AD I'd expanded to 9 cities with at total pop of 55. 6 turns away from self-teching Civil Service, and a sustainable 93bpt research. I was really pleased with that until I came here and read Jastrow's report... How does Jastrow do it????????

In common with others people's games, Zara Yaqob has taken two of my coastal spots. I will take them soon - I haven't bothered to declare war yet because I've been too busy expanding. My military capabilities currently consist of 9 warriors, 1 in each city. Somehow I don't think declaring war right now would work very well...

Just like Minou, I've also noticed that, although Zara can get to my land thanks to his coastal cultural borders, there doesn't currently seem to be any way for me to cross to the main landmass without caravels. That could cause problems later. That also means I only so far know 4 AIs - and three of those are the ones Deckhand introduced us to in the starting save.

 

[Jastrow]

Anyway, by 1AD I'd expanded to 9 cities with at total pop of 55. 6 turns away from self-teching Civil Service, and a sustainable 93bpt research. I was really pleased with that until I came here and read Jastrow's report... How does Jastrow do it????????

The gap may not be quite as big as you think....

Part of my lead is that I was playing Deity instead or Emperor, which means that AI's were likely much faster to Alphabeth in my game, and more useful trade partners. I dont remember which techs I traded for, but likely things like Calendar and IW are included.

Theses trades will have accelerated my CS. You also dont say if you have your academy up yet or not. On this start, CS and an academy are worth:

Castle = 8
3 Mines * 7 = 21
3 other 1 coin tiles = 3
4 from trade routes = 4
Raw coins ~ 36 (likely a bit more)

So 18 from CS, and then 27 from Academy, so nearly 50.

On top of that, the AI in my game will have more and bigger cities, perhaps worth another 20 or so cpt.

My two extra cities are the two I already took from Zara. They came fairly nicely developed, again because of the faster AI, and probably were contributing another 30 to my economy.

Taken together, that is some 100 bpt which are in great part the result of the Deity AI.

One other item... What was your second city? Gem*3 was a real powerhouse. I think anything else as city 2 was a mistake.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

The gap may not be quite as big as you think....

Part of my lead is that I was playing Deity instead or Emperor, which means that AI's were likely much faster to Alphabeth in my game, and more useful trade partners. I dont remember which techs I traded for, but likely things like Calendar and IW are included.

Interesting points. I'd assumed that because I was playing emperor, my tech rate would be faster (because it takes fewer beakers to learn each tech). I hadn't considered that that might be outweighed by trading with the faster AI.

Theses trades will have accelerated my CS. You also dont say if you have your academy up yet or not. On this start, CS and an academy are worth:

Actually a big part of why I was so impressed was that you referred to already having education and about to get guilds - and Oxford being complete soon, which implies you must have had education for a while (to have built enough universities). I've often managed to self-tech CS by about 1AD (if I can't slingshot it) - so I don't regard having CS as very remarkable. But being able to get education before 1AD - that seems quite an achievement. And to nearly have guilds as well - wow! I'm guessing you must have got at least 2 great scientists by 1AD, and used one of them to part-bulb education?

I'm not sure whether I had an academy up by 1AD in my game. Unfortunately I'm currently travelling and don't have access to that save, so can't check. It's very possible that I didn't though. I seem to vaguely remember having some trouble identifying a good city for running scientists early.

One other item... What was your second city? Gem*3 was a real powerhouse. I think anything else as city 2 was a mistake.

Definitely wasn't that. 2nd and 3rd cities went immediately South (for the wheat to fix health problems in my capital) and North (for floodplains + silver for happiness). I'm guessing you're referring to the 3 gems down South? I arranged my cities down there for food, and, after some soul searching, actually ended up with one of the gems permanently outside any city radius because it was the only sensible-looking way I could figure out to use all the food. Maybe that was a mistake.

 

[Deckhand]

spam alert

... I'm currently travelling and don't have access to that save...

Hey, that's my line.

 

[Jastrow]

I was miss-remembering some map details slightly. I have looked at my 0AD game again, and have many more details.

Firstly, even more important than the second city is the position of the first city (capital). In my view, settling on the gold hill was a significant inaccuracy, at least if you plan to play a Oxford/tech-ing game. As already stated, it idles the worker for 5 turns, but more importantly, compare to settling S-SW to have wheat in the BFC. Without the wheat, it is very slow growth to get to 3 gold mines, and requires farming 2 flood plains early. With the Wheat, at size 5, one can work a cottage or oasis instead; have one less farm (saving 8 worker turns). Also, the early wheat health further increases the growth speed.

Here is a list of my cities, in founding order, with location, reasoning, and there contribution to science (@100 bpt) at 1AD.

1. Capital. N-NW of wheat. 131 bpt (includes Acad and Beuro)
2. 1N of Deer to pick up all the Gems. Happy bonus and early research monster. 40 bpt
3. 1W of Iron (did not know that at time of finding). Connected by river. Shares one capital gold while it grows. Another good research city. 29 bpt
4. 4N of dear. N the river to act as a river connector for city 2 to the rest of the empire. Also helps develop the capital cottage. 27 bpt
5. 1S of banana. Access to coast, and fish, Banana, Cow (and a rice once the jungle is cleared, which has not yet happened at 1AD.) Can share a Gem when needed. Main role is GP farm. 21 bpt
6. 2S of south most Silver. Also on the river, and with 2 gold + silver, another good research city. 30 bpt
7. 1S of stone for Fish + Clam (and a gems). Intended as Moari city. 19 bpt
8. 1S of horse for 2 silvers. Still on river. 16 bpt.
9. Captured from Zara: AW of spice, with 2 cows, silver, fish. Currently in revolt.
10. Captured from Zara: 1N of sheep. Can share silver, and use crab. 16 bpt
11. On incense, 1N of clam. 6 bpt

Tech path:
Agriculture (3760), Wheel (3520), Pottery (3280), Writing (2840), BW (2600), Math (2160), Currency (1680), CoL (1360), Fishing (1320), Alpha (1160; from trade), Sailing + Masonry + Sailing (1120; from trade), CS (775 – revolt Beuro + Caste), Construction (650; to deal with Zara), Paper (500) , Mysticism (450), Calendar (450; from trade), Meditation (425), Priesthood (325), MC (250), Education (175; with a bulb), Feudalism (150; trade)

Oracle was built in foreign land in 1320 BTW, and GLH in 1240, MIds in 1160.

My first GS came in 525, and became an academy.

In terms on infrastructure, I have:

Units: 10 Workers, 15 military (warriors, chariots, catapults, swords, etc.) and one WB.

Buildings: 8 granaries, 5 libs, 4 courthouse, 2 forge, 1 university

To be clear, Oxford was not started yet. Another 4 Unis were still under construction. The planed date given above simply added the Uni production time to the Oxford build time.

Improvements: 22 mines, 3 farms, 3 pasture, 2 nets, 2 camps, 2 cottage, 1 village, 1 workshop, 1 quarry and 1 plantation.

My FOREIGN trade routes were bringing in 54 gpt, and I was selling 2xgold for another 9 gpt

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Wow, thanks for providing so many details. I'm still away from my save (sorry, Deckhand ) but working from my memory of the maps, it looks likes from those details like you followed a similar path to how I would have done. We had similar numbers of cities, workers, and the same kinds of buildings. but I notice three differences, which I'm guessing may be related to your rapid progress:

Firstly - you only had three cottages/villages, but tons of mines. I had cottages literally everywhere I could, and was working them very hard, but I had far fewer mines. To my mind your lack of cottages makes your high science look more remarkable, but obviously also means you'd have had more production.

Secondly, it looks like you're much more prepared than I am to go a fair distance from your capital to settle your 2nd city. I'll invariably put my 2nd city no more than 3-4 tiles from the capital to make defence and connecting the two easier (though arguably defence wasn't relevant on this map with no barbs and no AIs on the landmass). I guess by going further afield you were able to land a much better 2nd city.

Secondly, it looks like you're much more willing to skip early techs to get ahead. In particularly, you didn't research calendar until quite late, despite there being several calendar resources available. Ditto masonry, despite the available stone and marble. I'm not sure if that difference is partly because you were playing deity - which obviously favours backfilling earlier techs from trade more. But the late calendar certainly strikes me as something I wouldn't have thought of doing.

 

[Jastrow]

I am a bit confused by your first point... From memory (I am away from the save, TM), about 16 of my 22 mines where on precious metals. These should obviously beat cottages for, especially early, research.

On the second, going that far for city two is certainly not normal, but this case was not normal:
-No barb of foreign threat, as you have mentioned.
-Gems is an ultra-power, which needs ONLY mines to get going, so is worker cheap as well.
-The long river will make connecting it less of a pain then usual.
These 3 things combined made it a very strong play, I think.

On 3... Interesting.... I would NEVER have considered self-teching Masonry here. Calendar, maybe, at Emperor, but also not at Deity.

Why do I need masonry? It comes too late for Oracle, and with no food resources and tons of metals, this is not a representation map, so no need for Mids. Since I am planning an early Sci-Meth, the GLib will obsolete too soon to be worth much... I could consider the Hanging Gardens, but it + an Aqueduct are a pretty big investment, and I am unlikely to get it with more than 8 cities. I am going caste system anyway, so no need for stonehenge, and GW is clearly useless.... Bottom line is I need stone on-line for Oxford, not before, and I certainly was going to be able to trade for it by then.

Calendar is generally pretty easy to traded for, and its resources are ho-hum, and only really useful for the Happiness. With Gold, Silver, and Gem, was the extra happiness really very useful? The metals give a happy cap of 7 (8 in capital). I dont remember how many of my cities were above that, but 62/11 = 5.5, so cannot imagine very many. I doubth very much it being worth enough to pay for the cost of teching Calendar to get it a few turns earlier.