Brave New World's 9 new Civs

[HKY09]

Lithuania is represented by Poland in the game. We can olways find a time period where any country is more powerful than one another.

Hungary is the one of the few(Bulgaria is another example IMO) civilization in Eruope that is left out in the game for unknown reasons.

Presumably because the Polish were all buthurt about Poland not actually being in the last expansion.
I would rather a much more powerful civ than Poland.
(They're on my last civs to try list, behind Brazil)

 

[PerceeP927]

Well the Bulgarian Empire largely overlapped Greece, and was controlled by Byzantium and the Ottomans for much of the last two millenia. Why would they be worth half a damn?

 

[Liufeng]

Khmer already have some representation in the game, thank you Siam. Though they are not exact copies of each other, I'd still prefer Siam over Khmer.

Euh ... you realize comparing Khmer to Siam is more or less comparing England to Germany ... I don't think a khmer (or cambodian) would be very pleased ...

 

[LoneRebel]

Presumably because the Polish were all buthurt about Poland not actually being in the last expansion.
I would rather a much more powerful civ than Poland.
(They're on my last civs to try list, behind Brazil)

I find that at this point, with so many civs already included, bashing on civs and wishing for "more powerful" (whatever that means) civs to have been included instead is not constructive and not productive.

 

[Volkh]

I find that at this point, with so many civs already included, bashing on civs and wishing for "more powerful" (whatever that means) civs to have been included instead is not constructive and not productive.

Not to mention that Poland was indeed one of the most powerful countries for quite a long time.

 

[Katharsis]

Well the Bulgarian Emire largely overlapped Greece, and was controlled by Byzantium and the Ottomans for much of the last two millenia. Why would they be worth half a damn?

Bulgaria has no cultural ties with either Greece or Byzantium. They overlap with them only in geography. And since when geographical overlap was an important factor?
(Byzantium/Ottoman/Greece)

Besides, I just needed to mention them, since they are worth mentioning but I also find Hungary more appropriate.

The only thing that I am against is Romania with Vlad III who is a myhtical vampire and actually achieved nothing(more or less) in real history beside meaningless massacres that in the end could not prevent Ottoman expansion and the territories that he is responsible of become loyal provinces to Ottomans.

Romania could be cool if there is actually a good leader to represent them, but i guess we all know that if they agree on putting Romania in who would be their leader choice.

 

[HKY09]

Not to mention that Poland was indeed one of the most powerful countries for quite a long time.

Exactly how long is a 'long time'.

 

[HKY09]

Euh ... you realize comparing Khmer to Siam is more or less comparing England to Germany ... I don't think a khmer (or cambodian) would be very pleased ...

I thought I acknowledged they weren't the same?
Nevertheless, I stand by my point.
Siam > Khmer

 

[LoneRebel]

Exactly how long is a 'long time'.

I'm starting to wonder exactly what "more powerful" civs you think should have been included instead of Poland and Brazil.

 

[Volkh]

Exactly how long is a 'long time'.

From 1569 (Polish - Lithuanian Union) until XVIIIth Century roughly 200 years. The biggest and one of the most influencial european empires.

 

[LoneRebel]

Actually, looking back at the last few pages, maybe I shouldn't even get involved in this as it is quickly turning into a free-for-all hate-fest. I had to LOL at that guy who was bashing Hungary earlier - and on an international forum too!

 

[HKY09]

I find that at this point, with so many civs already included, bashing on civs and wishing for "more powerful" (whatever that means) civs to have been included instead is not constructive and not productive.

Nothing can be done about it now. Poland has already been placed, nailed and riveted by the Dev Team.
By "More Powerful", I mean more... powerful?
Sorry, but there's no other term I can use to describe it, but Hungary comes to mind when I think powerful.

I'm starting to wonder exactly what "more powerful" civs you think should have been included instead of Poland and Brazil.

I'm fine with Brazil. Kinda. They could've gone with something better (Is what I think for most of the newly added civs. Well, a few. Venice, Poland, Brazil and kinda Indonesia come to mind. Except I'm kinda alright with Indonesia.)

From 1569 (Polish - Lithuanian Union) until XVIIIth Century roughly 200 years. The biggest and one of the most influencial european empires.

Though I agree with (one of the most) biggest, I disagree with (one of the most) influential. Aside from being a local power and constant military threat to neighbours, they had little influence outside of their region if in fact they had any influence over the effect of history outside of their borders.
If Poland can make it in, why not other small powers like Serbia, Bohemia, etc etc etc.

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

Exactly how long is a 'long time'.

And for a how long time was Shoshone, or Polynesia powerful, if you want to go that way? And if "power" is a main standard, why do ppl want Inuit??? It's just ridicolous Whole this disscusion is like: "I want certain civ, and i don't want another". And it's ok! Leave it like that. Just please don't mix it with some "standards", "theories" or "historic aspects" becouse that only leads to the pure absurd... Same stuff with all this eurocentric complains... Well G8 is eurocentric too! Imagine someone demand: "Mmmm I think that G8 is eurocentric and needs better representation. Invite Peru!"... Ridicolous!

PS. Yes for Hungary!

 

[HKY09]

And for a how long time Shoshone, or Polynesia was powerful, if you want to go that way? And if "power" is a main standard, why do ppl want Inuit??? It's just ridicolous Whole this disscusion is like: "I want certain civ, and i don't want another". And it's ok! Leave it like that. Just please don't mix it with some "standards", "theories" or "historic aspects" becouse that only leads to the pure absurd... Same stuff with all this eurocentric complains... Well G8 is eurocentric too! Imagine someone demand: "Mmmm I think that G8 is eurocentric and needs better representation. Invite Peru!"... Ridicolous!

PS. Yes for Hungary!

Yes for Hungary!

 

[Volkh]

Though I agree with (one of the most) biggest, I disagree with (one of the most) influential. Aside from being a local power and constant military threat to neighbours, they had little influence outside of their region if in fact they had any influence over the effect of history outside of their borders.
If Poland can make it in, why not other small powers like Serbia, Bohemia, etc etc etc.

Actually Poland was far more influential than Bohemia, Serbia and Hungary combined and was certainly not a small power. Poland even estabilished political control over Bohemia and Hungary during Jagiellons dynasty and during Stephen Báthory`s reign. Polish kings also ruled Saxony, Lorraine and had dynastic connections even with italian House of Sforza. It was Poland tha estabilished Prussia, invaded Russia and seized Moscow in 1612. Poland is known for it`s inventors (Nicolaus Copernicus, Maria Skłodowska-Curie) artists even explorers. Your statement about Poland being only local military power shows only your ignorance on this matter.

 

[LoneRebel]

Yes for Hungary!

As a matter of fact, I actually think Hungary is a great candidate. Would be good to have in a DLC.

 

[HKY09]

Actually Poland was far more influential than Bohemia, Serbia and Hungary combined and was certainly not a small power. Poland even estabilished political control over Bohemia and Hungary during Jagiellons dynasty and during Stephen Báthory`s reign. Polish kings also ruled Saxony, Lorraine and had dynastic connections even with italian House of Sforza. It was Poland tha estabilished Prussia, invaded Russia and seized Moscow in 1612. Poland is known for it`s inventors (Nicolaus Copernicus, Maria Skłodowska-Curie) artists even explorers. Your statement about Poland being only local military power shows only your ignorance on this matter.

Prussia was a massive state of the German Empire. Prussia and Poland were enemies because Prussia cut certain areas off from trade to the Polish. Your statement that "Poland established Prussia" makes no sense.
While Poland in may have captured Moscow during the polish-muscovite war, it would never be counted as a victory as the many attempts made to assimilate the Russias into the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth would fail and would lead to them being kicked out of the Russias altogether one year later.
Marie Curie, one of the brightest minds in history (often accredited to the discovery of Radiation) was indeed Polish born, but she rarely ever did things in name for the Polish.
During her lifetime, Poland was part of the Russian empire.
She couldn't study in Poland, because Poland at the time was a place to dread and not a place you would want to be.
Had she not left to study in France, I very much doubt she would have been able to do most of her famous studies.
I can't say the same for Copernicus, who born and died in the Polish kingdom. He is credited, along with Galileo and Newton for his theories regarding heliocentrism.

Hungary (Well, Austria-Hungary) ruled over parts of Poland at once point as well.
At the time, the majority of Poland was ruled over by the Russians.
Right now, Poland is on par with other small European powers in terms of Military, influence and culture.
I also stick by my statement that Poland had little influence outside of its region.

 

[nunor]

Spoiler :

^ Did you look at my post at all?

Tuskaloosa, leader of the Coosa chiefdom of the Mississippians. Language: Muscogee.

Here is my post. Please read it



I was going to go with Vietnam and Khmer next, but let's go with the Normans. This proposal is fairly complete, I just don't know if it's balanced

The Normans

I know the Normans would be controversial to some, but there are plenty of reasons to support them. They were on the frontlines of every major conflict in Europe of the Middle Ages - from the Crusades to the Reconquista to the Conquests of Southern Italy and England. Obviously, there are some difficulties (they were located inside France and their status there was always ambiguous and their conquest of England is fairly represented by England). But they did have an independent Kingdom in Southern Italy and Sicily (which is not represented) and, even in France, their Viking heritage, connections to religion, and military adventurism gave them, imo, a unique culture.

Plus, this is all in good fun, so here goes:

That's really the most logical logo. Obviously, the colors are taken and the Lions are annoyingly English now (damn you William). There might be others. This is the coat of arms for the House of Hauteville which is associated with the Kingdom of Sicily. That might work too.

The rest is below the break:

Spoiler Normans :

There are two leader possibilities I'd suggest:
Robert the Magnificent

I know people have said Robert Guiscard or even William the Conqueror, but I like Robert, Duke of Normandy because he represents all the Normans. He was the father of William the Conqueror and has an interesting history himself with an effective rule of Normandy and was known for his piety. His life was short because he went on a pilgrimage to the Holy Land and never returned. Plus, how can you say no to that statue there

The other alternative is:

Richard the Fearless

Richard essentially centralized the Norman state, making the Duchy one of the most important areas in France. His reign was marked mostly by peace and tranquility. I know that's boring, but that's probably owed to his strength as a ruler since he had to fight other French counts (and the French King) to get that position. He also showed cunning diplomacy, focused on strengthening Normandy rather than getting involved in French politics, and built up his relationship with the church. Plus, his nickname is "The Fearless," which is badass.

Background would probably be inside the Cathedral in Rouen, although it was rebuilt so this one is a bit anachronistic:

Unique Unit: Knights of Roland
Replaces Knight. Unit is 25% stronger in enemy territory and starts with the Blitz promotion.

Before embarking on their conquest of England, soldiers sang the Song of Roland, which celebrated the victory of a Frankish army fighting against the Muslim Saracen invasion of France. The song had symbolic meaning for them because, even in their invasion of England (which had been sanctioned by the Pope), they viewed themselves as fighting a Holy War. No doubt the Normans who fought in Muslim Sicily, the Normans who fought in the Holy Land, and the Muslims who fought against Muslim Spain took a similar inspiration from La Chanson de Roland.

OK, that's my sales pitch. Basically, I needed a name better than Norman Knight and this one fit. The Song of Roland was important for everyone, but it was undoubtedly important for the Normans. The first recorded mention of the song is in the Chronicle describing the Conquest of England. As for the stats, if there's one thing that sums up the Normans better than anything else, it's going abroad and fighting people elsewhere. They also used Cavalry a lot. If it's too powerful, cost to produce can be adjusted.

I used three pictures to give some ideas. Really, the first guy with the ax from the second guy would be different enough so it doesn't look like the regular Knight. Although, if it has a lance, the different helmet and shield will help.

Unique Improvement: Motte and Bailey

Can build one in the territory of each city in conquered territory. Units adjacent to the improvement lose 10 HP per turn.

I tried to balance it a bit by limiting it to one per city. It's like a citadel except it doesn't require a Great General and doesn't steal territory. Otherwise, I basically borrowed directly from Firaxis's scenario.

Unique Ability: Soldiers of the Church
+25% combat bonus when attacking cities with a different religion than the majority religion in Norman cities. Norman missionaries can choose which religion to spread.

I wanted a religion-related bonus that did not require the Normans to found a religion. Historically, the Normans adopted Christianity as a political move, but became one of the churches strongest defenders. Although the church did not always approve their actions, they often turned to them. This is particularly true in Italy where the Normans were asked to fight against the Holy Roman Empire to protect Rome (the Normans happened to sack Rome on the way, but oh well). They were also asked to conquer Muslim Sicily and to go on the Crusades. Really, they are more associated with Holy War than any other individual group.

Anyway, that's my Norman idea.

Next up will be Vietnam and Khmer.

Your civ designs are great and informative, keep them coming please!

 

[Volkh]

Your statement that "Poland established Prussia" makes no sense.

Let me put it gently - you lack some fundamentals of historical knowledge. In 1525 Albrecht Hohenzollern, the Duke of Prussia paid tribute and swore allegiance to King Sigismund I the Old in Kraków's market square on 10 April 1525. Polish king forced Albrecht to became a lutheran protestant and to secularize the Order. It is marked as a beginning of Prussia, therefore Poland estabilished this country. Actually Sigismund I was hesitant to do so. He was planning to destroy remnants of Teutonic Order utterly however his counselor advised him otherwise. It was an apparent mistake.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filerussian_Homage.jpg

This is a depiction of Prussian Homage.

Marie Curie, one of the brightest minds in history (often accredited to the discovery of Radiation) was indeed Polish born, but she rarely ever did things in name for the Polish.

A chemical element, Polonium was named after Marie Curie's native land of Poland
It was Curie's hope that naming the element after her native land would publicize its lack of independence. Polonium may be the first element named to highlight a political controversy. However as you said she did nothing for the Polish
Please read some more on the topic, and we may come back to the discussion. It is pointless and frustrating to argue with somebody who has no clue about the subject.

 

[The QC]

If I was omnipotent, every post on this forum about how a certain civ is not interestin or how a certain civ is better than another one would be deleted forever. And only posts like those of Louis XXIV, highlighting cool things about various civs, would remain.

This thread would be 2 pages long in that version of the multiverse.