BREAKING NEWS! AN OTHER ABU GHARIB! ***photos inside***

[mazzz]

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041203/D86OEJ7G0.html
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20041204/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/seals_prisoner_photos

Bloody mess

By the throat




An Associated Press reporter found more than 40 of the pictures among hundreds in an album posted on a commercial photo-sharing Web site by a woman who said her husband brought them from Iraq after his tour of duty. It is unclear who took the pictures, which the Navy said it was investigating after the AP furnished copies to get comment for this story.

 

[Duddha]

Only the work of a "few bad apples", right.

 

[Speedo]

Except that it's lacking the whole "torture" element...

 

[mazzz]

Is hooding someone with a bag with the number four on it and having two guys hold his arms and an other giving him an evil look with his fists up (looking like he just punched him and was going to again) not torture?

 

[Sims2789]

Except that it's lacking the whole "torture" element...

Torture does not require physical mutilation.

 

[Speedo]

Is hooding someone with a bag with the number four on it and having two guys hold his arms and an other giving him an evil look with his fists up (looking like he just punched him and was going to again) not torture?

No, evil looks do not constitute torture

The photo shows no evidence that the prisoner was punched. In fact, given the poor stance of the guy (if he had punched/was going to punch the prisoner) it is most likely just a pose or another gesture entirely.

Your own links say that "experts on the laws of war" have examined them and say they don't necessarily show anything illegal- just stupid behavior which happens to violate navy policies.

 

[Yom]

I hope you're just posting the nice pics so that you don't get in trouble with the Mods, because mere hooding isn't torture, though it may be degrading.

 

[Hundegesicht]

Except that it's lacking the whole "torture" element...

It's an affront to their dignity as human beings and disrespecting them. While not necessarily illegal, it certainty is despicable. IMO, no matter how the Iraqis treat or did treat prisoners, we should always hold the same high standard. Humiliating (potentially innocent) prisoners doesn't help ANYONE; it just makes the situation worse for everyone.

 

[BasketCase]

If the American flag is raised over Iraq, and we install a PERMANENT police state, arrest people for saying the wrong thing in public, and do the hood-over-your-head-and-DieHard-battery-attached-to-sensitive-part-of-body thing with EVERY political prisoner we capture (well, okay, say more than half of all prisoners), then I'll concede that invading Iraq was a bad thing.

Until that happens, my opinion will remain the same. Invading Iraq was the right thing to do. The country is better off now than it was with Saddam in charge. (Hell, the poll I posted showed nearly everybody in CFC agrees with me).

 

[Hundegesicht]

If the American flag is raised over Iraq, and we install a PERMANENT police state, arrest people for saying the wrong thing in public, and do the hood-over-your-head-and-DieHard-battery-attached-to-sensitive-part-of-body thing with EVERY political prisoner we capture (well, okay, say more than half of all prisoners), then I'll concede that invading Iraq was a bad thing.

Until that happens, my opinion will remain the same. Invading Iraq was the right thing to do. The country is better off now than it was with Saddam in charge. (Hell, the poll I posted showed nearly everybody in CFC agrees with me).

This thread isn't even talking about whether invading the country was right or not... please don't drag it off topic, as I really don't want to read another 8 pages about "the illegal war!!!"

(Yes, I know someone else would, but maybe if you set a standard it'd deley the process)

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Forcing a Muslin to dress in women's clothing can be considered torture. They take the book of Leviticus seriously.

 

[HighlandWarrior]

i don't see anything wrong with those pictures, another abu gharib, only in your dreams.

 

[Vovin]

I think that if the man in the pics is a american, you would think that its wrong, but its a iraqian so you don't matter...and no one can say if iraq is better now because no one here lives there neither now neither under saddam government.
This is of course a torture, humiliate a man and force him to break his tradition can be considered torture.

 

[North King]

Great, so this is the war we are fighting. Ah... God Bless America. Home of the noble and brave.

 

[Bugfatty300]

Is hooding someone with a bag with the number four on it and having two guys hold his arms and an other giving him an evil look with his fists up (looking like he just punched him and was going to again) not torture?

The 'boxing' guy isn't even looking at the prisoner. Looks like he is telling the other's a story using hand gestures. Perhaps a story of hienous torture and misery unrivaled anywhere in the many chronicals of humanity or describing the capture or scuffle with the prioners.

Its like asking 'does the Pepsi on the right taste the same as the pepsi on the left.'

Either way, this seems much milder and unspectacular than Abu Ghraib.

 

[Xiahou-Dun]

Has anyone thought the guy might have been wearing womens cloths when he was caught?? Yes I know all enemy combatants wear black cloths and have mask...just maybe he had his cloths at the cleaners the day he got caught. I know if I was wanting to sneak into an area and kill some troops, I wouldn't never ever show up in a dress....unless my cloths where are the cleaners.

 

[BasketCase]

This thread isn't even talking about whether invading the country was right or not... please don't drag it off topic, as I really don't want to read another 8 pages about "the illegal war!!!"

The reason I spouted the spout that I spouted is because I was pretty sure somebody was gonna come along and say.....

Great, so this is the war we are fighting. Ah... God Bless America. Home of the noble and brave.

The sort of thing shown in the photos isn't unique to Iraq. American soldiers (very few of them compared to the whole, I say) have done stuff like this elsewhere. And, well, guess what? In America it's legal to own a car even though cars kill a lot of people. With cars, it's "oh well, take the bad with the good".

Faced with either seeing the photos posted at the start of this thread, or letting Saddam do a lot more of what we see in the photos at the start of this thread, I choose door #1, and I take the bad with the good.

 

[eyrei]

The reason I spouted the spout that I spouted is because I was pretty sure somebody was gonna come along and say.....

The sort of thing shown in the photos isn't unique to Iraq. American soldiers (very few of them compared to the whole, I say) have done stuff like this elsewhere. And, well, guess what? In America it's legal to own a car even though cars kill a lot of people. With cars, it's "oh well, take the bad with the good".

Faced with either seeing the photos posted at the start of this thread, or letting Saddam do a lot more of what we see in the photos at the start of this thread, I choose door #1, and I take the bad with the good.

But Saddam is gone...yet we still do this...

I can't help but feel embarrassed and sickened at the conduct of some of our soldiers. The United States of America must hold the moral high ground for us to actually succeed at bringing freedom to people. Ever consider that the reason some of our soldiers do things like this is because our government protects them from prosecution regardless of what they do? Talk about setting a bad example for the free world...

 

[BasketCase]

We do hold the moral high ground. See that incident in the photos at the start of this thread? Saddam was doing that a lot more often than we are. There ya go.

"Moral high ground" is entirely a relative term.

 

[PantheraTigris2]

These people that (now continue to) make the photographs available to their families (and therefore ultimately the press), not to mention taking them in the first place... are some of the stupidest people. I just can't understand it. Just take your career, and throw it right into the garbage - all in in the name of 'sharing some pics'.

This kind of thing, always has, and always will - go on in POW camps/prisons, etc. And if you didn't/don't realize that, you are really, really naive.