Bring back Alpha Centauri goodies!

[Selphie]

Well I was kinda disappointed when I played Civ3 for the first time, because before that I was totally hooked on Alpha Centauri (AC) with Alien Crossfire expansion. Then I realised that Civ3 was developed by Atari, while AC was by Firaxis... dammit I wanted to blame someone so badly.

Anyhow, since Civ4 is being done by Firaxis again, I DO really hope they bring these back. There's more, but I can't remember them right now... perhaps you guys out there can help out?

Here's mine:

1) Confirm odds before attack!
-> this is WAY too important to ignore; makes life much easier for newbies (due to all combat bonuses/penalties showed), saves time because you don't need to do mental calculations

2) Manage units even if no moves left
-> this is one thing I really hate in Civ3. Especially in late game, when you want to, say, fortify a unit or make it immediately move-to-X after a battle, you can't do it! You will have to wait until next turn, and then probably you have forgotten about it. This problem didn't exist in AC.

3) More special unit commands
-> eg: automate worker to build ONLY roads. to automate ONLY this town. to ONLY clean pollution, to build road from here to X (reactivate once all done).
-> eg 2: auto unit to patrol between 2 points. allow units to have defending priority, meaning they defend first if attacked (I HATE it when one of my healthy high-att-low-def unit gets killed instead of my damaged high-def unit.)

4) Improved specialists after discovering modern techs
-> who can forget those Empath gals that give you two shield, two science and 3 happy-faces? (hmmm, correct me if I am wrong with the numbers)

5) Bring back bribery
-> it's not overpowered because bribing is really expensive. but it does add more strategy to the game. reward players for hoarding cash.

6) AC-style "governments" ?
-> this might be too much though, perhaps for Civ5 hehe
What this means is that you gain bonuses/disadvantages based on a scale system like in AC. So you get to choose a ruling government type (monarchy, republic, communism, etc), economic system (market based, gov-regulated, wanton development, tree-huggies), social system (welfare, survival-of-fittest), communal aspects (conservatism, fundamentalism, liberalism), societal goals (nation pride, love-spreader, eudaemonism), etc. All the different bonuses would then stack up. Those of you who played AC before would understand what I'm talking about.


There, hopefully most of you would agree with me. Comments and additions are welcomed!

 

[Selphie]

Oh God oh God, I can't believe I forgot this!

7) Bring back Wonder movies
-> Those Atari boys who said wonder movies are disruptive to the flow of the game, oh well, you're dead WRONG. I and my friends here believe that Wonder movies are one of the greatest aspects of the game. The pride, the satisfaction of completing a wonder (especially in higher difficulties), nothing beats that feeling of being rewarded with a short clip for all that hard work. Even after playing Civ2 and AC for hundreds of times, I still enjoy the Wonder movies. Being em back!

 

[Guagle]

Good ideas that would benefit civ4in a huge way.

One other thing i liked in AC was inter-faction trade. When you discovered a new faction trade between cities was automatically enabled. This brought free trade arrows (energy in AC's case) based on the development of each city, development of the other faction and government choices. I'd like to see something like this in civ4 as international trade is too simplistic right now.

 

[searcheagle]

Well I was kinda disappointed when I played Civ3 for the first time, because before that I was totally hooked on Alpha Centauri (AC) with Alien Crossfire expansion. Then I realised that Civ3 was developed by Atari, while AC was by Firaxis... dammit I wanted to blame someone so badly.

Anyhow, since Civ4 is being done by Firaxis again, I DO really hope they bring these back. There's more, but I can't remember them right now... perhaps you guys out there can help out?

Here's mine:

1) Confirm odds before attack!
-> this is WAY too important to ignore; makes life much easier for newbies (due to all combat bonuses/penalties showed), saves time because you don't need to do mental calculations

2) Manage units even if no moves left
-> this is one thing I really hate in Civ3. Especially in late game, when you want to, say, fortify a unit or make it immediately move-to-X after a battle, you can't do it! You will have to wait until next turn, and then probably you have forgotten about it. This problem didn't exist in AC.

3) More special unit commands
-> eg: automate worker to build ONLY roads. to automate ONLY this town. to ONLY clean pollution, to build road from here to X (reactivate once all done).
-> eg 2: auto unit to patrol between 2 points. allow units to have defending priority, meaning they defend first if attacked (I HATE it when one of my healthy high-att-low-def unit gets killed instead of my damaged high-def unit.)

4) Improved specialists after discovering modern techs
-> who can forget those Empath gals that give you two shield, two science and 3 happy-faces? (hmmm, correct me if I am wrong with the numbers)

5) Bring back bribery
-> it's not overpowered because bribing is really expensive. but it does add more strategy to the game. reward players for hoarding cash.

6) AC-style "governments" ?
-> this might be too much though, perhaps for Civ5 hehe
What this means is that you gain bonuses/disadvantages based on a scale system like in AC. So you get to choose a ruling government type (monarchy, republic, communism, etc), economic system (market based, gov-regulated, wanton development, tree-huggies), social system (welfare, survival-of-fittest), communal aspects (conservatism, fundamentalism, liberalism), societal goals (nation pride, love-spreader, eudaemonism), etc. All the different bonuses would then stack up. Those of you who played AC before would understand what I'm talking about.


There, hopefully most of you would agree with me. Comments and additions are welcomed!

1. This would be a nice feature.
2. I would agree this would be a nice feature for units to do on the NEXT turn. HOwever, the way civ works, a unit can only do those sort of things when it has the movement to do that. If not, it cheapens the other actions, such as fortication.
3. Already exists (although hidden). Go to options and get Advanced unit options.
4. Not familiar with SMAC so unable to comment.
5. Sounds good. Could you provide some examples of suggested bribes?
6. I agree- social engineering/customizable government should be included.
7. Wonder movies do matter to me much either way.

 

[dh_epic]

Truthfully, I've never played SMAC. But the social engineering concept is interesting.

Was there any penalty for switching your social engineering choices around too much?

 

[Mordack]

#6 right on

best part of SMAC was social engineering

civ4 should also prohibit certain civs from using certain traits - just like SMAC

examples -
commercial civs should not be able to use "planned economy"
industrail civs should not be able to use "green economy"

etc...

great suggestion

 

[sir_schwick]

1) Confirm odds before attack!
-> this is WAY too important to ignore; makes life much easier for newbies (due to all combat bonuses/penalties showed), saves time because you don't need to do mental calculations

2) Manage units even if no moves left
-> this is one thing I really hate in Civ3. Especially in late game, when you want to, say, fortify a unit or make it immediately move-to-X after a battle, you can't do it! You will have to wait until next turn, and then probably you have forgotten about it. This problem didn't exist in AC.

3) More special unit commands
-> eg: automate worker to build ONLY roads. to automate ONLY this town. to ONLY clean pollution, to build road from here to X (reactivate once all done).
-> eg 2: auto unit to patrol between 2 points. allow units to have defending priority, meaning they defend first if attacked (I HATE it when one of my healthy high-att-low-def unit gets killed instead of my damaged high-def unit.)

4) Improved specialists after discovering modern techs
-> who can forget those Empath gals that give you two shield, two science and 3 happy-faces? (hmmm, correct me if I am wrong with the numbers)

5) Bring back bribery
-> it's not overpowered because bribing is really expensive. but it does add more strategy to the game. reward players for hoarding cash.

6) AC-style "governments" ?
-> this might be too much though, perhaps for Civ5 hehe
What this means is that you gain bonuses/disadvantages based on a scale system like in AC. So you get to choose a ruling government type (monarchy, republic, communism, etc), economic system (market based, gov-regulated, wanton development, tree-huggies), social system (welfare, survival-of-fittest), communal aspects (conservatism, fundamentalism, liberalism), societal goals (nation pride, love-spreader, eudaemonism), etc. All the different bonuses would then stack up. Those of you who played AC before would understand what I'm talking about.

1. I'm really suprised this was not a feature in any of the expansions.

2. Sounds good, but they did change what movement meant in Civ3.

3. Added some of those in the expansions.

4. They have a couple similair kinds of specialists in C3C. Instead they allow you to construct civilian buildings faster, and reduce corruption. Personally I would like to see Stock Brokers or other specialists, but only if they keep most stuff the same.

5. While I do think the current espionage system [i[5uXor5[/i], the old system of buying cities was a bit overpowered. I thought you should have been able to fund an intelligence network and be able to more easily sabotage buildings or water supplies. To make things fairer in that sense, sabotages buildings would require 1/2 the usual cost to repair(still hurts).

6. Definitely missed that and the governmental holes that filled. The return to the Cold-War mentality of government definitions made me sad.

@dh

It cost you money to change settings, and the amount progressed exponentially based on how many settings were changed at once. Also, your slider could only be so far from 50 - 50 before inefficiency set in. That threshold was based on your faction size and efficiency rating.

 

[Kosez]

6) AC-style "governments" ?
-> this might be too much though, perhaps for Civ5 hehe
What this means is that you gain bonuses/disadvantages based on a scale system like in AC. So you get to choose a ruling government type (monarchy, republic, communism, etc), economic system (market based, gov-regulated, wanton development, tree-huggies), social system (welfare, survival-of-fittest), communal aspects (conservatism, fundamentalism, liberalism), societal goals (nation pride, love-spreader, eudaemonism), etc. All the different bonuses would then stack up. Those of you who played AC before would understand what I'm talking about.

Yes!!! Governments are oversimplificated!
In continental legal theory and theory of state we distinguish:
a)form of political system: democracy, autocracy
b)form of state authority: parliamental system, presidential system, assembly system
c)form of state regulation: unitary, federal
d)form of state regime: monarchy, republic

You can combine this forms of systems on different levels (not all though), for instance: England is democracy, parliamental monarchy and unitary. Germany is democracy, parliamental republic, federative. USA is democracy, presidential republic, federative. France is democracy, semi-presidential republic, unitary. And so on.
Then there are forms of economical system: self-sufficient economy, slave system, feudalism, capitalism, communism.
In theory communism is not non-compatible with democracy or any other system, and capitalism is compatible with autocracy.

I hope there will be some inprovements in CivIV on that subject.

 

[Lockesdonkey]

Truthfully, I've never played SMAC. But the social engineering concept is interesting.

Was there any penalty for switching your social engineering choices around too much?

Yes, lump-sum cash. It often deterred changing everything at once.

 

[morbror_sven]

6) AC-style "governments" ?
-> this might be too much though, perhaps for Civ5 hehe
What this means is that you gain bonuses/disadvantages based on a scale system like in AC. So you get to choose a ruling government type (monarchy, republic, communism, etc), economic system (market based, gov-regulated, wanton development, tree-huggies), social system (welfare, survival-of-fittest), communal aspects (conservatism, fundamentalism, liberalism), societal goals (nation pride, love-spreader, eudaemonism), etc. All the different bonuses would then stack up. Those of you who played AC before would understand what I'm talking about.

Good idea! Thougth i think that some of the sliders should be locked until you discover their respective tech.... I mean noone knew about liberalism and communism in the ancient ages....

 

[rhialto]

Yes, lump-sum cash. It often deterred changing everything at once.

No it didn't. The cost stayed constant through the game for any give change. So while that 30 or so gold would hurt badly at the start, by the time you are making 300 gold a turn, changing government, even all 4 switches at once, was painless. To me, this was the single biggest flaw in the SMAC government system. I also have big doubts about the moddability of this (significantly, SMAC never had any mods worth mentioning) system or its applicability to non-futuristic government.

 

[sir_schwick]

If you allowed it to have an on/off toggle within programming that would not be a problem. I imagine having a matrix cap of 10 different sliders with up to 50 options per slider would also not limit anyone. Besides maybe functioanlity for different types of sliders(button, numerical, percentage, etc.) could be put in place. I am not sure what engine SMAC was built on and whether that made modding harder. There were some fantastic mods for ToT because it allowed scripting and more code moding.

I do agree with the static cost idea and in general would support more relative costs for things.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Actually, given the tidbit of info we recently recieved from Firaxis, this might be what 'Civics' is referring to-i.e. techs unlock different sliders, as well as different degrees within each slider, allowing the player to further differentiate his government from everyone elses.
I agree with Rhialto that changing sliders-IF its going to have a monetary cost-should have a cost proportional to your income. What I think might be better, though, is a cost in 'Stability' instead (consider Stability to be an improved form of the current Corruption Model). The more things you change, and the more often you change them, the more unstable your nation becomes-making it more prone to civil war/revolution. If anything, it would deter excessive micromanagement!!!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Vael]

From the sound of it the Civ4 'civics' concept sounds a lot to me like SMAC's way of doing government stuff, so that's something to look forward to.

Also sounds like anything that isn't in already can be added by modders, which is what excites me the most.

 

[Mordack]

and while we are at it....

how about an in-game custom unit creator - why can't I build an armored fast unit with range weapons

I spent hours in the SMAC unit workshop - loved it

better unit attributes should become available as you advance the tech tree

I would love to see the Civ4 version of a "Drop Shard Behemoth" or "AAA Trance 8-Res Sentinels"

 

[dh_epic]

The problem with unit workshops is that there's usually one or two "best units" you can create anyway... and the AI isn't particularly good at using them, no?

 

[Vael]

Yeah, SMAC was plagued with a number of things that seemed neat at first, but when you realized the AI couldn't use them it kind of took the fun out of it...

 

[Ozymandias]

Yeah, SMAC was plagued with a number of things that seemed neat at first, but when you realized the AI couldn't use them it kind of took the fun out of it...

Yeah, the game was ruined for me when I thought to build helicopter colony pods -- a slam-dunk against the AI in the expansion arena.

-Oz

 

[sir_schwick]

Yeah, the game was ruined for me when I thought to build helicopter colony pods -- a slam-dunk against the AI in the expansion arena.

Or needlejet colony pods about 100 turns earlier.

 

[Ozymandias]

Or needlejet colony pods about 100 turns earlier.

It only occured to me when I got to helicopters, and that was my last SMAC game ever. C'est la guerre.

-Oz