Brittish Isles Succession Game - The Saxon Menace

Xrang is having problems logging in so he emailed the save file to me. Garret's out for the forseable future (just has too much on his plate right now) so I've got the game for my turn.

Brit Isles version 9 was posted this morning. I've done some backwards compatability testing and have found no problems using games started as far back as version 4. In other words, if we want to, we can go to version 9. What's the general feeling of the players? Stay with 7 or go for 9? We've all got to play on the same version so it's got to be a concensus.
 
We should probable switch to version 9 of the mod, but it could mess things up with our economy and such...
 
This my (xrang) new screen name. My other one wasn't working(couldn't log in).:confused:
 
Never mind about consideration of moving to version 9. Two resources were added and since our map was built in V6, it doesn't have them anywhere. We will never get off our rock without hardwoods in V9 (required for all wooden ships except galley).
 
I had a good building turn with 3 palace improvements! I'm getting better at micromanaging, thanks to Charis and Grey Fox's examples.

We are so stuck on this rock. I lost 2 galleys in ocean exploration without finding anything promising. I've tracked our research towards Astronomy. We might get lucky with caravels.

My turn was cut a few rounds short due to simply running out of time.

Synopsis:

550 AD Dorsetshire switched from library to colloseum. The people there aren't exceptionally happy and would prefer circuses to bread. The Forest Preservation Society of Welwyn petitions the Ard Ri to protect their virgin woods. 4 working parties reasigned to the forests surrounding Loidis. Hrypis changed from Forbidden Palace to Courthouse construction. Heafuddne changed from harbor production to spearman production. As workers become available, some will be added to cities to make budgetary room for incoming war capable units. These in turn will be used to bolster the military police in large cities.

Check that. Heafuddne put back on harbor construction. There are enough overgarrisoned smaller cities to cover the MP requirements in the large ones, at least for now. Many garrison troops grumble as massive redeployments are ordered.

560 The desert village of Harpenden becomes a town overnight with the massive influx of incense hungry settlers. Much worker activity and minor coastal exploration. 7 units found fortified atop Mount Crumpet (southernmost tip of the Isle of Essex). Their general is given 40 lashes and the troops dispersed to nearby cities. The people add a wing to the palace.

570 Danmonii raiders sunk in a battle off the north coast. Two more units found vacationing on the beaches west of London. Officers from both units have been drawn and quartered and the units redeployed to city garrison duty. The manager of the Population Distribution Department is sacked as Harpenden suffers massive starvation due to overcrowding.

580 Coastal exploration proving unfruitful, dedicated crews begin positioning their galleys for best chance of suvival for deep sea exploration forays. Harpenden is back to its pre-meddling population and food production once again meets the populations' needs.

590 London and Loidis run out of things to build. London is at population capacity so works on workers so population can be redeployed to smaller cities. Loidis begins working on wealth.

600 We have learned currency and begin research into Philosophy. We learn that the Scotch city of Edinburgh has completed the Hanging Gardens - whatever those are. Enfield and Loidis begin work on public marketplaces. New constructions have beaten our budget into the red. Some entertainers and scientists changed to tax collecters to balance the budget. Still researching Philosophy in 4 turns. Went through the 1 shield yield cities and made some more taxmen. May want to change these to scientists after this research is complete.

610 The people add another wing to the palace.

620 Almost lost a galley due to forgetting that they only have a movement of 3 when you don't have the Lighthouse. Boy, do I miss that Lighthouse :cry:. There's a nice sea channel at the northeast corner of Essex. Volunteers have begun exploration.

630 Some beautiful towers are added to the palace. The northeastern sea channel turns out to be a dead end. Our feerless sea explorers make a mad rush for the coast. Research rate lowered and 5 taxmen turned to scientists. Change will net 8 more gold.

640 Polytheism in 7. Redistributed scientists/taxmen. Loidis has completed a marketplace and begins gathering a working party to add to another city. Our brave sailers were lost in treacherous waters.

650 Pirates sunk near Rickmansworth. London completes its marketplace and begins working on a population transfer team (worker). Influx of cash allows us to bump our science rate. Polytheism in 5.

660 A Desperate galley captain makes a run into the easten ocean. No new land is sighted.

680 The Sussex city of Lancing has completed the Art of War. Our scientists scratch their heads in confusion at the concept of "Feudalism". The captain of the galley exploring the eastern ocean has returned his ship to the coast! There is much rejoicing. Research is spiked to get Polytheism next turn.

690 Lost a galley due to forgetting that they only have a movement of 3 when you don't have the Lighthouse. Argh! We're out of the Ancient Age. Research set to make a beeline for Astronomy (Caravels). Budget balanced and specialists tweaked to give us Monotheism in 10.

Thoughts:
We're going to be on the rock and alone for a while. When we do meet the rest of civilization we're likely to be a dirt poor backwater with outdated units (our berzerkers will almost definately be outdated).

Might be good to get the Forbidden Palace going in the southeast somewhere. We'll likely need a very productive island kingdom and might need to steer away from the conquest angle. Maybe go diplomatic or spaceship?

We can pepper the desert with mini cities. It's a huge swath of desert and no city in there will likely ever need more than a few squares of territory. We can easily fit 10-15 cities in there, ungarrisoned, creating only culture builders. Each burg also allows 1 more free military unit under Brehon Law.

Charis, you're up.
 
What version are we using? 6? I think I just deleted it. oops:lol:
 
I have the save, will play tonight (likely) or tomorrow.

As far as versions... I would have to imagine that it would serve the mod best if we upgraded to the new version. Otherwise Shaitan won't get the feedback he needs on the current version to continue to improve it.

On our economics, let's assume Brehon law will supply only 1 MP and try to get geared up for that over the next turn.

As for not having a resource... if you **need** a resource just to get off your island, that's unacceptable design. Needing it to get 'special' or better ships, that's fine. Any other resources besides hardwood? You could also, I imagine, edit the save file to add/remove resources? (Or ask another mod-designer not playing the game to do so?) Another option is to have 'later' and better techs not need the intermediate resource, like saltpeter. That also avoids getting into TOO deep a bind when a resource is short. (Thus map making lets you make the little ship, hardwood let's you make a better ship around the time of invention, a second nice hardwood ship at astronomy, then assume it's a common resource and not require it for any more ships once navigation is learned)

Charis
 
690 AD (0) - We really do need more to build! It's so wasteful to have London
and Loidos (20 shield cities) on Workers. There's still a bad palace bug.
Looking at Loidos it suggest it would take 200 turns of our 20 shield/turn
city to make a 400 shield structure! (Don't fix this until Welwyn gets
to pop out its wonder it's been sitting for eternity prebuilding in darkness)

We look so alone... good news though! F11 shows that we're ranked #1 in
land area. Also #1 in population and annual income, and #2 in gnp and
production. Our literacy is low. London is 3rd ranked city. Edinburgh seems
to be a super city with Pyramids, Hanging Gardens and Great Library. I do
see some sea currents south of Watford. If I get a chance I'll send a ship
down there.

Only one thing to change. A courthouse in Bradeford next to the capitol??
We'll get nothing out of it at all and pay maintenance for it. It's put
on Marketplace. On the off chance it reduces corruption from 1 to zero,
I'll restart it once the Marketplace done and nothing else to build.

700 AD (1) - 740 AD (5) Not too much...

BTW, we're in a *crucial* timeframe culture-wise. There is a 1000 year
'bonus' which doubles the culture/turn of such old buildings. So temples
and libraries pre-750 AD are HUGE. Why? The turn-year factor in 1750 drops
down to 2 yrs/turn. I just noticed we have some cities with colloseums and
*NO LIBRARY* and smaller ones with no temple... ack! :P This is also why
we got out of despotism WAY too early. We should have stayed there and popped
both temples and libraries from all these weenie desert towns, and done so
looooong before 750 AD. Alas, our treasury is too poor to buy-rush them now.
This may toss out chances for a cultural victory, hard to tell.
(We'll be fine, just pointing this out as a tip for future games)
Just noticed too we should have a fishing village north in corner near
Loidos and Welwyn.

750 AD (6) - Welingum founded on whale spot near Enfield. Dunemowe founded
NE of Loidos. Trafalgar Fishing Villa founded near London.

770 AD (8) - Vet gally heads for the sea current. I don't think it actually
opens into anything, but we need to find out.

800 AD (11) - Hmmm... a bug??! I sent a ship into the unknown in the South.
It ended up being ocean past the point of no return. And yet... it as a
galley did NOT sink. (800ad save file is included in the posted zip!) I can see sea,
and might drown there next turn, but if not I'll hit coast!?

810 AD (12) - The ocean-surviving galley was lost on the other side, in
the sea (shucks). It's a long trip to get to shore :(
Monotheism comes in, now we can start on Cathedrals all over in the big cities.

New Saebert is founded in the south not far from Dorsetshire. It can
borrow wheat from the latter, has some hills and a horse, and might make
a fair Forbidden Palace site, with its south-central location.

850 AD (16) - (Previous player took only 14 turns, so I'm evening up the
year again.) So how is our 'Palace' in Welwyn doing? 233 turns to complete
earlier, now 236 :P

It might be quiet for some time yet. Plod along, do what you can for the
economy, and hope we're "found" soon :P

Good luck,
Charis
 
Originally posted by Charis
As far as versions... I would have to imagine that it would serve the mod best if we upgraded to the new version. Otherwise Shaitan won't get the feedback he needs on the current version to continue to improve it.
Click to expand...
Definitely would be better for the mod, if we can swing it.

As for not having a resource... if you **need** a resource just to get off your island, that's unacceptable design.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't normally be a problem. Hardwood is as plentiful as horses. If the map had been built with hardwoods in the mod, there would be some on the island. On the other hand this could be a problem at the watery extreme (archipelago, 80% water). I may add a tiki at the same time as caravel becomes available (short masted ship but boyant and relatively save for sea travel). No resources required, speed 2, carry 1, sea travel okay. Nobody in their right mind would build one if they didn't have to but it does give you a chance to get off of the island if you are stuck there without hardwoods. Have it upgrade to caravel so you'll never even see it unless you need it.

Needing it to get 'special' or better ships, that's fine. Any other resources besides hardwood?
Click to expand...
Stone is the other resource added. Required for walls, cathedral and colloseum.

You could also, I imagine, edit the save file to add/remove resources? (Or ask another mod-designer not playing the game to do so?)
Click to expand...
Not sure. I've never tried the save game editors. I'll look into it.

Another option is to have 'later' and better techs not need the intermediate resource, like saltpeter. That also avoids getting into TOO deep a bind when a resource is short. (Thus map making lets you make the little ship, hardwood let's you make a better ship around the time of invention, a second nice hardwood ship at astronomy, then assume it's a common resource and not require it for any more ships once navigation is learned)
Click to expand...
Maybe add a schooner at invention...
Do you think this would be necessary with the addition of a tiki?

There's still a bad palace bug. Looking at Loidos it suggest it would take 200 turns of our 20 shield/turn city to make a 400 shield structure!
Click to expand...
Annoying, isn't it? It's clear back to version 4 too and I haven't been able to isolate the cause. It's still on the list of things to fix. The palace has a variable cost increasing with the number of cities, introduced in the 1.16 patch. The result is you never know how many shields it actually will take to complete the palace. In a game I'm finishing up right now it would take Dubris with 135 shield/turn output a frightening 57 turns to finish a new palace. That's over 7,600 shields for a palace. Ouch.

I sent a ship into the unknown in the South.
It ended up being ocean past the point of no return. And yet... it as a galley did NOT sink
Click to expand...
Not a bug. There's a chance of sinking in sea and a much larger one for sinking in ocean but sometimes you just luck out. :)

I'll see what can be done to upgrade our game to be V9 compatible. Actually, with the new patch coming out on Friday I'll need to put out a V10 for patch compatibility and I'll try to get our game compatible to that.
 
I think I'm going too play soon, which version should I use?
I'll start playing now, I'm using the same version I used last time I played, I think it was 6.2 or something...

You should really add the Version number inside the text file... :)
 
I might be interested in doing some graphics or help you with the mod in any way I can... just give me something to do and I'll see what I can do.


I'm doing some mighty Tweaking this turn too! :D

(Currently raising our research speed by one turn, losing only 4 gold, from +3 to -1)
 
Well I'm in a tough position, Shall I switch to Sistine chapel?

or shall I wait for Copernicus, Sistine's Cost 600 Shields and when I switch we loose 400 Shields...

Copernicus costs only 400 shields....


Quick responses please
 
Originally posted by Grey Fox
I might be interested in doing some graphics or help you with the mod in any way I can... just give me something to do and I'll see what I can do.
Click to expand...
I could definitely use some graphics help! I'm working on resource specific city improvements. You know how you need Iron and Coal in order to build the Ironworks? Well, I'm making one city improvement for each of the (24) resources. Here's my working plan:

Resource-Improvement---Cost--Upkeep--Culture--Effect
Horse-----Stable------------100-----1--------3-----makes 1 content
Wines-----Winery------------100-----1--------3-----makes 1 content
Incense---Pagoda------------100-----1--------3-----makes 1 content
Gems------Gem cutter--------100-----1-------------- +50% tax revenue
Spice-----Apothecary--------100-----1-------------- +50% tax revenue
Silk------Clothier----------100-----1-------------- +50% tax revenue
Furs------Tannery-----------100-----1-------------- +50% tax revenue
Cattle----Ranch-------------100-----1-------------- +50% tax revenue
Fish------Fishing Fleet-----100-----1-------------- +50% tax revenue
Game------Chalet/Lodge------100-----1-------------- +50% tax revenue
Gold------Jeweler-----------100-----1-------------- +50% tax revenue
Whales----Whaling Fleet-----100-----1-------------- +50% tax revenue
Dyes------Stained Glass-----100-----1-------------- +50% tax revenue
Ivory-----Carver------------100-----1-------------- +50% tax revenue
Wheat-----Grist Mill--------100-----1-------------- +50% tax revenue
Saltpeter-Illuminators------120-----2--------1-----Makes 2 content
Uranium---Radiology Center--180-----3--------1-----Makes 3 content
Iron------Smithy------------240-----3-------------- +50% production
Coal------Mine--------------240-----3-------------- +50% production
Hardwood--Mill--------------240-----3-------------- +50% production
Stone-----Quarry------------240-----3-------------- +50% production
Aluminum--Machinery---------240-----3-------------- +50% production
Oil-------Rig---------------240-----3-------------- +50% production
Rubber----Tire Factory------240-----3-------------- +50% production

If you could do graphics for any of these improvements, that would be fantastic!
 
Originally posted by Grey Fox
Well I'm in a tough position, Shall I switch to Sistine chapel?

or shall I wait for Copernicus, Sistine's Cost 600 Shields and when I switch we loose 400 Shields...

Copernicus costs only 400 shields....


Quick responses please
Click to expand...

Sistine! Definitely go for Sistine Chapel. Kicks but all over Copernicus.
 
I might even use 3D Studio MAX for those things, might not be needed though!

Well I seem to be busy in the future!

Those improvements have to be in the city radius right?


You could skip some of them and make some that needs two different like another small wonder, like cattle and wheat and make it produce 100% extra food... would we be able to get 40/50+ cities or what...



I built the Sistine by the way
 
Originally posted by Grey Fox
Those improvements have to be in the city radius right?
Click to expand...
Yup. The resource has to be in the city radius in order to build the improvement. I envision certain cities known for their magnificent horses, others for fantastic wines, etceteras. If any city is lucky enough to build the Ironworks it will be a truly powerful production center as it will also be able to build an iron smithy and coal mine.

Originally posted by Grey Fox
You could skip some of them and make some that needs two different like another small wonder, like cattle and wheat and make it produce 100% extra food... would we be able to get 40/50+ cities or what...
Click to expand...
New minor wonders are planned for stage two that will use the combo resource plan. I like that tie in for wheat and cattle.
 
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