BTS Beta 8

Finished 1080, not too good. Thought without caravels around globe would be impossible and therefore lost +1 seamove.

Didnt selfvote btw.

What is the time interval between checks

Assume round 100 AP built when is first vote (and therefore check for pop)? Is it varied with speed?

-Dracandross
 
Ok so its easiest to let palace be built on same round than you get more votes that should do the trick then...

3rd with that 1k, gotta improve now

-D
 
Ok so its easiest to let palace be built on same round than you get more votes that should do the trick then...

3rd with that 1k, gotta improve now

-D
just to make sure: the first vote is for pope (aka resident, same as secretary general of the UN) - only the second vote (after 13 or 14 turns) can be the victory vote...
 
I am now at 520AD with gem-/gold-less start position. I got an immediate 2nd city with Brennus in the same island ;) With a little bit more luck this could be done faster - but some of my missionaries failed so I had to resend. When the vote comes in I switched to my religion and completed "Hanging Gardens" in the same turn.
 
I had also around 500 AD game (failed to get votes for though) where I had 4 cities in first island. Really made start flying but there werent enough good cityspots for fast pop growth and I somehow negleted to take bad spots in time. Had even stone around for hanging. But yea with good start around 500 AD is possible only getting missionaries out fast enough is troublesome.

Hard to get engineer,oracle for some expensive tech and get someone vote you/fix that stupid vote self trick somehow and spread all in time.

-D
 
I had also around 500 AD game (failed to get votes for though) where I had 4 cities in first island. Really made start flying but there werent enough good cityspots for fast pop growth and I somehow negleted to take bad spots in time. Had even stone around for hanging. But yea with good start around 500 AD is possible only getting missionaries out fast enough is troublesome.

Hard to get engineer,oracle for some expensive tech and get someone vote you/fix that stupid vote self trick somehow and spread all in time.

-D
I think getting missionaires out enough is not the main problem - building the right number of ships and finding all opponents in time is a more difficult task.

What I learned too is starting on an islands together with another civ is more important than having gems/gold. You get an immediate 2nd city AND you have 1 less opponent where you have to spread the religion to.
 
Well I meant getting them out and spread (which includes shipping them too). But yes it was badly worded. My best shots (which failed to voting as selfvote busted) were with civ on same island and 4 cities on same island (no opps though) both around 600 AD voting...

Btw do you beeline to optics to get spread or managed to do it with galleys?

-D
 
I just submitted 445AD. Dream start with a deer and 3 seafood. :lol:

I was lucky with the second city, though. It had gold, seafood, and one hills/plains, and was busy building fishing boats at size 3 most of the time, this way I did not have to delay switching to Caste System.

So, I build the Oracle for CS around 1100BC, and then switched to Bureaucracy/Caste System immediately. I had 5 cities total, 1 calendar resource in addition to gold. Generated 4 GSs, first build Academy, second settled as SS, third bulbed Optics, 4th triggered a GA to help building AP.

I also managed to build Moai Statues in the capitol, so I guess these are all my 'secrets'. Moai + GA = fast AP.
 
Hmm very nice. I thought going for caste+CS is not worth it here as fast optics is quite essential. Bulbing those though seem to work quite well. Good work!

-Dracandross
 
I thought going for caste+CS is not worth it here as fast optics is quite essential.
Bureaucracy is essential. It's even more important than Caste + bulbing. Not only it adds some 10+ commerce from 1000BC on, but it also improves hammer output including forest chops and whips. I built most of the city improvements by whipping, Library, Forge, Harbor, etc. Finished Moai Statues with 1 forest chop doubled due to Bur + Forge + Org.Rel.

Caste System is good mostly because of secondary cities like 1-tile with 2 seafood. All you have to do is to build a Settler and 2 fish boats, wait until size 2, and run Scientists all along, no Libraries needed. You can live even without Granaries and Lighthouses. :)
 
I have a question. I have built the AP in my Buddhist Capital, I have spread Buddhism in some (not all!) cities around the world, I have created one colony spreading Buddhism to his 2 cities.

Morale: I can NEVER proposte the diplomatic victory, just the open borders to all members. How come? can it be that I have too FEW votes to obtain diplomatic victory?

Thanks a lot for the replies,
Supergiu
 
three possibilities:
1) not all civilizations have at least 1 city with the AP religion in them
2) you have more than the 75% of votes
3) for some reason the aP religion is not buddhism (you did build it while buddhism was your state religion, right?)

Welcome to the HOF :band:
 
hey ori, thanks for the reply and thanks for the welcome... :)

for the possibilities:
1) i have to check, it could be true (actually dont remember isabella...)
2) by counting votes for the pope election, i am less than 70% counting my double votes
3) ap religion should be buddhism, i only had that religion when i built it

will see possibility 1 tonight when i come back home. thanks a lot!

Supergiu
 
I have a question about the "religion to every AI" requirement. Do vassals count?

For example, Monte has vassalized Hatty, I infect 1 Monte city and 1 city of every other AI with my religion, but there is no city with my religion in any of Hatty's cities. Can I vote for Victory because the team Monte-Hatty has the religion? Or can't I vote for Victory because 1 AI, Hatty, doesn't have the religion?

Would there be any difference if Hatty was MY vassal?
 
I have a question about the "religion to every AI" requirement. Do vassals count?

For example, Monte has vassalized Hatty, I infect 1 Monte city and 1 city of every other AI with my religion, but there is no city with my religion in any of Hatty's cities. Can I vote for Victory because the team Monte-Hatty has the religion? Or can't I vote for Victory because 1 AI, Hatty, doesn't have the religion?

Would there be any difference if Hatty was MY vassal?
No, no and no :)
every civ needs the religion - not just every team.
 
Sound interesting. Are you willing to share your strategy perhaps in the BtS-8 thread? :cool:
All right. :)

I look for a start on a Hill/Plains tile (for 1 extra hammer) with 3+ seafood, a few forests to chop, and 2 or 3 hills for mining. A farm (like corn or wheat) is also nice for additional health. Deers do too, but no Animal Husbandry or Masonry pls. If I have an AH resource, e.g. sheep on a hill, I'd mine it rather than research AH that early.

Set the city to build a Worker, research Fishing, then BW. Once Fishing is complete, put 2 Workboats on top of the Worker in the queue, and set the city governor to max hammers. Once boats are complete, build the nets, now I have 2 workable water tiles to complete the Worker. If I did not have enough hammers to complete both boats, and my capitol grew up to the size 3, I'd whip another fishing boat and send it for exploration, while completing the Worker at size 2. Otherwise I'd build the 3rd boat after completing the Worker.

After BW I research a Worker tech, then Sailing, Pottery, and Writing. Next thing to build after 3 Workboats and a Worker is a Galley. Meanwhile the city grows to the size 4-5, then I switch to Settler. Once the Settler is complete, on the next turn I whip the Galley, and send both to found my 2nd city. I look for a spot with at least 1 seafood and 1 more workable tile, e.g. another seafood or a mine, preferably before border expansion, especially the seafood.

Meanwhile I build one more workboat in the capital, then switch to Granary and max growth until the happiness cap, then switch to another Settler. Once the Settler is complete, whip the Granary, build a workboat (if necessary), set to Library.

The second city meanwhile grows to the size 2, then whips a workboat (in some cases it can be a Monument if I badly need border expansion). After Writing I research Math, then go for religions. Polytheism -> Priesthood -> CoL. By that time my Worker usually finishes all improvements, so I set it to pre-chop a couple of forests for the Oracle.

Once the capital reaches size 5-6, I whip the Library, then switch to the Oracle. Once the city grows back a little, I hire 1-2 scientists, because I need my first GS for the Academy before the Oracle is complete and the gene pool is polluted by Priests. My 2nd city usually builds another Settler all this time, the 3rd city does the usual stuff: grows to 2, then whips a Workboat, then builds a Warrior.

So, by the time CoL and Oracle are complete (around 1200-1100BC), I have at least 3 cities, another Settler about to complete on an island, the GS for the Academy, and the capital ready to whip yet another Settler. Then I build 1-2 more cities.

Enough workboats, even for seafood not yet reachable (before border expansion). Get CS from the Oracle, switch to Bureaucracy immediately (after that whipping a Settler requires only 2 pop, not 3), and to Caste System 5 turns later or wait until Monarchy. Of course, I spend this time on heavy whipping, whatever I can, namely Granaries and Lighthouses in the secondary cities.

After I switch to Caste System, I hire an Artist for border expansion in all cities that need it. Then switch to working max food + specialists.

The capital meanwhile finishes the Lighthouse (if it is not done already), then 2-3 Warriors for happiness under HR,
then switches to Moai Statues, while working max food + Scientists. Chances are the 2nd GP is a Prophet, then I'd save it for bulbing Theology later. If it is a Scientist, then I'd settle it as SS. My 3rd GP is usually born on an island, and it is always a Scientist. I use it to bulb Optics.

The research path after CS is Monarchy, then Alphabet. I usually build 2 more workboats, and send them for auto scouting, meeting neighbors, etc. Once I get Alpha, I trade for everything but Meditation (because it unlocks Philosophy, which takes precedence over Optics.) That is, Masonry, Monotheism, and sometimes even Iron Working (prereq to Compass.)

After Alpha I research prereqs for Optics. I stay on Caste until my 3rd GP is born, but sometimes I switch temporarily to Slavery to whip some more Granaries and Lighthouses.

After Monarchy/HR and religion spread I set all my island cities but one (generating the GS) to max growth, keeping in mind that 4 water tiles > 1 gold mine.

So, shortly before the last prereq for Optics is complete, I switch back to Slavery (this time I usually have Org.Rel as well.) Then bulb Optics. If I also have a Prophet, I trade for Meditation and bulb Theology as well, otherwise spend another 7-8 turns on researching it myself. It is typically done by 200BC-1AD.

Meanwhile whip the Forge in the capital, complete Moai, build/whip Aqueduct and Harbor (since health is the major problem at this point), then start the AP. If another GP is born in the capital at this time, it triggers a Golden Age.

The island cities are busy whipping remaining Granaries and Lighthouses, then Caravels and Missionaries. I always send a Caravel with a Missionary on it. If the Missionary is spent far away, I don't even return that Caravel home, since it's faster to whip another one.

With Moai and GA the AP usually takes 8-9 turns to build. I frequently interrupt it by building more Caravels and Missionaries, because I need it only after I spread the religion to at least 4 civs, including 1-2 most distant ones.

After Optics and Theology I usually research Paper (for map trading), then Drama (for happiness from culture slider), then Currency (for gifting gpt to bribe someone), then whatever else.

The rest is trivial, I suppose.
 
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