[BtS] DIPLOMACY: a mod for Diplogames!

[The Almighty dF]

Its not THAT overpowered really. I think it is pretty powerful though. Its basically for builders. It allows you to build a lot of wonders, which in turn grants you a great deal of culture while also providing you with GP faster because of your philosophical trait. Also a lot of wonders give you free specialists which also help you to create more GP. It isn't that great but its still pretty good. I didn't realize I made anyone Phi/Ind, its probably Solomon though right?

Yaroslav I, actually.

Which reminds me, I'm gonna type up a sort of guide. Just a list of everything in the mod and the modules, just for handy reference since it takes awhile to boot up the game.
I figured that might be useful to some people. At least for me, since I like to plot out things in advance.

 

[MadmanOfALeader]

Next is Padre Hidalgo of Mexico.

First Contact:
Peace be with you, [CT_NAME]. I am the Reverend [OUR_NAME] of [CT_CIV_SHORT] and I would like to have peace with you. Do you like the idea? Good. Now let's go somewhere where they won't see us gulping down margaritas.

Refuse to Talk:
Begone, devil!

No Peace:
The [OUR_CIV_ADJ] people will not rest until they give death to your bad government.

Friendly Greeting:
Good evening again, [CT_NAME]. Let's go to the cathedral, light candles, and pray to the Virgin Guadalupe until dawn! Well, at least that's what the bishop thinks, anyway.

Annoyed Greeting:
Oh. It's you again. Well, now I know why I've been running out of contraband liquor so fast...

Demand Tribute Weaker:
I think the nuns may have caught me drinking and gambling. Why don't you give me this so they won't be so angry?

Demand Tribute Equal:
Time to tithe, [CT_NAME].

Demand Tribute Stronger:
You should do us this favor, [CT_NAME]. Nobody wants to wake up and see an angry mob at their door.

And yes, it's true that Padre Hidalgo was involved in less than priestly activities.

 

[The Capo]

Love the Hidalgo text.

@ dF; I didn't realize I made Yaroslav Phi/Ind, oh well. What type of guide did you have in mind? Actually, once I'm finished with the next edition (especially the Deluxe version, which will be huge) you may need to write another one!

 

[The Almighty dF]

Love the Hidalgo text.

@ dF; I didn't realize I made Yaroslav Phi/Ind, oh well. What type of guide did you have in mind? Actually, once I'm finished with the next edition (especially the Deluxe version, which will be huge) you may need to write another one!

Starting off with just reference stuff.
What civs are included, their techs, their units/buildings, etc.
Then once the new mod comes out and everything's changed, I'd update it and collect some strategies for each item.

I figure this might also make it easier to tell what needs to be changed with the new mod, and is a nice way of revealing any mistakes, like a few buildings which state they boost economy but have no economic effect.

 

[The Capo]

You know, I totally forgot to think about a good personality schema for Sennacherib. I am going to read up on him a little bit right now, but if anyone has any ideas about how this guy should act let me know.

The Assyrian civ seems like it will be a military powerhouse, at least early on. I'm putting in Civ Gold's UU and UB right now, I may tweak them a bit (particularly the Battering Ram, which I am thinking of making available with Iron Working rather than construction). As for their UB it gives a 15% production bonus to military units. So they will be an early threat. I only mention that in case you guys think I should make Sennacherib militaristic, however I am pretty sure he was slightly more of a builder than a militaristic figure (despite his depiction in the bible, which I think we can all agree was written with a biased viewpoint towards Assyrians).

 

[The Capo]

Starting off with just reference stuff.
What civs are included, their techs, their units/buildings, etc.
Then once the new mod comes out and everything's changed, I'd update it and collect some strategies for each item.

I figure this might also make it easier to tell what needs to be changed with the new mod, and is a nice way of revealing any mistakes, like a few buildings which state they boost economy but have no economic effect.

Sounds good. Most buildings that have an incorrect strategy/pedia entry (as someone, probably you actually, noted with the Mexican Zocalo) are actually wrong because I forgot to edit the strategy after I changed their abilities. So this guide will be helpful to me. Thanks for taking the time to do that.

 

[The Almighty dF]

Not a problem. I love the mod and it's nice helping out in any way possible.

Also, which traits did you plan on giving Sennacherib?
Personality wise, I'd put him close to Napoleon. He needs to be someone that puts a lot of attention towards building an army and using it, but he also needs to be able to keep his empire afloat.
He's not someone that'll be building wonders, and he'll probably be average when it comes to techs. He should have plenty of workers, however.

 

[The Capo]

Aright, I did a little homework. I think Industrious is a must. So my ideas are Industrious/Imperialist, Industrious/Aggressive, Industrious/Expansive, and Industrious/Protective.

I'm sort of leaning towards Industrious Protective for some reason, even though most of his wars were really imperialistic or expansive. Organized could be another idea because he developed a irrigations systems and a "royal road network," although I think that is really more industrious than organized.

 

[The Almighty dF]

Aright, I did a little homework. I think Industrious is a must. So my ideas are Industrious/Imperialist, Industrious/Aggressive, Industrious/Expansive, and Industrious/Protective.

I'm sort of leaning towards Industrious Protective for some reason, even though most of his wars were really imperialistic or expansive. Organized could be another idea because he developed a irrigations systems and a "royal road network," although I think that is really more industrious than organized.

Split between Industrious/Imperialistic and Industrious/Expansive myself.
The latter ensures he'll have a high population and workers, whereas the former means he'll be having a quick empire and great generals. I'd probably go with Ind/Exp.
I'd suggest Imp/Exp, but just imagine how monstrous he'd be then. The second you meet him he has control over half the continent.

 

[The Capo]

Not a problem. I love the mod and it's nice helping out in any way possible.

Also, which traits did you plan on giving Sennacherib?
Personality wise, I'd put him close to Napoleon. He needs to be someone that puts a lot of attention towards building an army and using it, but he also needs to be able to keep his empire afloat.
He's not someone that'll be building wonders, and he'll probably be average when it comes to techs. He should have plenty of workers, however.

I would actually disagree with this idea. It seems to me that his "conquests" were mainly due to necessity. His wars against Babylon were fought because a Babylonian King took over Babylon and attempted to drive Assyrian influence away from the city, which resulted in his conquest of Babylon (plus they killed his son, so of course he is going to destroy Babylon, which he did). The wars against Judah/Israel were mainly due to Egypt and Nubia jockeying for power with him (Israel was allied to Egypt/Nubia at the time). And he was basically the biggest builder in Assyrian history, so to me I think he should have the Industrious trait. Although you are right in that he never built any wonders, but neither did Augustus and he is given the Industrious trait for building up Rome, which is what Sennacherib did to Nineveh. I am thinking his traits should be like Catherine's for some reason. But I'm still not sure. I don't know about Napoleon though, I'm pretty sure he nearly bankrupted France. It seems Assyria was in good hands with Sennacherib and he left it better off than he found it.

EDIT: Also Assyria WAS a pretty dominate power back then, especially during Sennacherib's time.

 

[The Capo]

Split between Industrious/Imperialistic and Industrious/Expansive myself.
The latter ensures he'll have a high population and workers, whereas the former means he'll be having a quick empire and great generals. I'd probably go with Ind/Exp.
I'd suggest Imp/Exp, but just imagine how monstrous he'd be then. The second you meet him he has control over half the continent.

This seems a bit contradictory, which did you think it should be Ind/Exp or Ind/Imperialistic. I think those are the two that will work for him. I could go either way.

 

[The Capo]

I was just thinking; when we get the Hittites into this thing (which will be in the Deluxe edition along with these modules) you could put together a pretty sweet ancient middle-east scenario. Hittites, Assyrians, Phoenicians, Israelites, Babylonians, Sumerians, Egyptians and Nubians. You could even throw in the Greeks and Persians if you really wanted to expand it further!

 

[The Almighty dF]

I would actually disagree with this idea. It seems to me that his "conquests" were mainly due to necessity. His wars against Babylon were fought because a Babylonian King took over Babylon and attempted to drive Assyrian influence away from the city, which resulted in his conquest of Babylon (plus they killed his son, so of course he is going to destroy Babylon, which he did). The wars against Judah/Israel were mainly due to Egypt and Nubia jockeying for power with him (Israel was allied to Egypt/Nubia at the time). And he was basically the biggest builder in Assyrian history, so to me I think he should have the Industrious trait. Although you are right in that he never built any wonders, but neither did Augustus and he is given the Industrious trait for building up Rome, which is what Sennacherib did to Nineveh. I am thinking his traits should be like Catherine's for some reason. But I'm still not sure. I don't know about Napoleon though, I'm pretty sure he nearly bankrupted France. It seems Assyria was in good hands with Sennacherib and he left it better off than he found it.

EDIT: Also Assyria WAS a pretty dominate power back then, especially during Sennacherib's time.

True. I guess he could work as a wonder builder, then. Maybe someone that builds a large army, but not specifically a warmonger.
Hmm...
I'd at least make him someone hard to negotiate with during war.

Also, although Napoleon bankrupted France in real life, in-game Napoleon is one of the better empire builders I've run across.

Sorry about that. Ran my thoughts together.
I was debating with myself over which trait pairing would work best, decided that Ind/Exp would be the better of the two.
Middle Eastern scenario could be interesting, although can you imagine how the map would be? In terms of resources, I mean.

 

[The Capo]

Also, although Napoleon bankrupted France in real life, in-game Napoleon is one of the better empire builders I've run across.

Sorry about that. Ran my thoughts together.
I was debating with myself over which trait pairing would work best, decided that Ind/Exp would be the better of the two.
Middle Eastern scenario could be interesting, although can you imagine how the map would be? In terms of resources, I mean.

Sorry if what I said came off as rude, I'm just being impatient because I literally have the file open in front of me right now and I am trying to get this thing together. Ind/Exp it is! And I rarely play against Napoleon (I usually get Louis or DeGaulle when I play against France for some reason), so you're probably right I am going to give him Napoleon's personality. I'll make a few amendments though. I was thinking of making his favorite civic slavery, but that may be a bit too ancient. I'd make it Hereditary Rule but he never mentioned his father officially, and he was assassinated by two of his sons (although he did install one of them on the throne, and was succeded by yet another son) so maybe that isn't the right trait. Maybe vassalage (as he lorded over the Phoenicians, Syrians, and installed a puppet government in Babylon and then ultimately destroyed their capital as a show of power). What do you think about the favorite civic?

For now I am giving him Zoroastrianism as a favorite religion, until the next verison when a marduk-based religion will be in the game for the ancient near-eastern civs.

EDIT: I don't know if you read Sennacherib's wikipedia article at least, but he seems to have had a pretty interesting reign. In fact that alone could suffice as an ancient near-eastern scenario considering the wars he went through. As far as resources go; you'd have wheat, sheep, gold, iron, bronze, horses, fish, cows, pigs, spices, etc. I don't think you'd want for resources really on a map like that. Plus you could put in whatever resources really. It'd just be fun to play that type of game, at least to me because I love ancient history.

 

[The Almighty dF]

Sorry if what I said came off as rude, I'm just being impatient because I literally have the file open in front of me right now and I am trying to get this thing together. Ind/Exp it is! And I rarely play against Napoleon (I usually get Louis or DeGaulle when I play against France for some reason), so you're probably right I am going to give him Napoleon's personality. I'll make a few amendments though. I was thinking of making his favorite civic slavery, but that may be a bit too ancient. I'd make it Hereditary Rule but he never mentioned his father officially, and he was assassinated by two of his sons (although he did install one of them on the throne, and was succeded by yet another son) so maybe that isn't the right trait. Maybe vassalage (as he lorded over the Phoenicians, Syrians, and installed a puppet government in Babylon and then ultimately destroyed their capital as a show of power). What do you think about the favorite civic?

For now I am giving him Zoroastrianism as a favorite religion, until the next verison when a marduk-based religion will be in the game for the ancient near-eastern civs.

I'd go with Vassalage. Besides the fact that it does fit him historically, it's also not usually a favored civic.

Also, I know what you mean about normally getting the other two French leaders. Civ4 seems to hate "randomness." Even with Diplomacy, I still manage to get Montezuma in each game. I also don't think I've ever run across any American leader besides Lincoln, which is really bad because Lincoln's AI... eh. He's on par with Sitting Bull's AI. It's like the only part of his presidency the AI was modeled over was the butt end, where he decided that it was such a beautiful day he should take in a show.

I'm for the most part familiar with his reign, love ancient history. Especially the first empires. I'm a bit better at American and East Asian history, though.
It'd be fun to try to simulate his reign. Then again, I can say the same for a lot of empires. Good chunk of the fun of Rhyse is trying to control what the Roman Empire actually controlled. I -still- suck at that. I can establish the full English empire, but not Rome.

Also, yeah. Resource realism... should probably be avoided. Ever tried playing a realistic (resource wise) earth map? It's pretty realistic, which isn't a good thing if you're playing as sub-Saharan Africa or any of the South American civs.

 

[The Capo]

I'd go with Vassalage. Besides the fact that it does fit him historically, it's also not usually a favored civic.

Also, I know what you mean about normally getting the other two French leaders. Civ4 seems to hate "randomness." Even with Diplomacy, I still manage to get Montezuma in each game. I also don't think I've ever run across any American leader besides Lincoln, which is really bad because Lincoln's AI... eh. He's on par with Sitting Bull's AI. It's like the only part of his presidency the AI was modeled over was the butt end, where he decided that it was such a beautiful day he should take in a show.

I agree that Diplomacy doesn't effect Civ's lack of randomness. But I have it the other way around. I always get Reagan and Marcus Aurelius whenever I play against Rome and America. I also tend to get Montezuma when the Aztecs show up, but I played today and I got Itzcoatl. But I always wondered if I was the only one who seemed to always get the same leaders for the same civs everytime.

EDIT: I also never seem to get Ivan, Ptolemy or Abu Bakr. I always get Kim Jong-il and Hitler too, and Pol Pot actually. What's up with that?

EDIT: Another thing I've noticed is that the AI tends to build Inquisitors when they don't need them. Either that or they overbuild inquisitors. I played one game and Mandela founded Voodoo. He was running a theocracy but was building inquistors. He cleared my religion from his lands with them but still had two extra lying around for no good reason. I guess the AI doesn't disband units or something.

 

[The Capo]

I PMed you about IMing me dF. Because I haven't really spoken with anyone about my mod yet in real time and I had a lot of questions about my work so far. Including the new civs I've made; like which ones do you think are the best and which ones you think are the worst (as far as their leaders, UBs, UUs, etc go). If anyone else reading this could answer some of these questions it would be an invaluable help for the next mod.

 

[The Capo]

Eh, unfortunately a lot of the Assyrian units didn't come out right, so I have to fix some of them, but here are a few that DID come out pretty good (although they will need some adjustments. They look pretty good though. I'll probably do some texturing changes to these though.

@ Madman; I looked around and couldn't find the color specs for Assyria. So I just winged it, I need to make the background of the flag darker, but if you have the specs handy that'd be helpful. If not I'll look again.

 

[The Almighty dF]

Sent you a message over YIM. Well, hopefully. Trillian's been hating me lately.

I haven't had an inquisitor issue yet, but I'll say this: Adding multiple techs to Civ4 is a -bad- idea.
Although I love playing Extra and Amra's full mods... I feel like I'm at too much of an advantage unless I step up a difficulty. The AI tends to stare at new techs and just have a seizure.
It makes me wonder how tech prioritization is coded in the game.

Also. Each time I've gotten Hitler? He's jewish. He doesn't found it, but he converts to the religion after the Israelis found it.
I've had this happen three times (twice with me as Israel, once with the AI.)
So hilarious. Gotta love moments like that. Sitting Bull conquering English cities, Napoleon having a booming economy, etc.

Also, really love the crossbow wielder and the knight.

 

[The Capo]

I don't have YIM, I have Windows Live Messenger, which is the MSN thing.

Yeah, I gotta fix a lot of these units. Its okay though because seeing them in game lets me know exactly what I have to do.

And I have also noticed that Hitler tends to be Jewish in my games too. SOMETIMES he founds Christianity, but its rare.