[BtS] DIPLOMACY: a mod for Diplogames!

[The Capo]

Well, I want to avoid using the same trait twice for the same civ, if I can. So one of them will have Philosophical and one will have something else. I think what I'll do is make Mongkut Philosophical and Financial, and then Ram Creative and Spiritual.

 

[The Almighty dF]

Well, I want to avoid using the same trait twice for the same civ, if I can. So one of them will have Philosophical and one will have something else. I think what I'll do is make Mongkut Philosophical and Financial, and then Ram Creative and Spiritual.

That works, since Creative leaders beeline Alphabet anyway.

 

[The Capo]

I just came up with a really cool idea for a new Ptolemy LH. Originally I was going to use pencilgod's Nefertiti as a fourth Egyptian leader replacing Ptolemy. My new idea is to use John adams, give him the gold laurels from Constantine, use Shaka's body (reskinned of course), put the armor from pencilgod's Mark Antony over that, and then put Ramasses brestplate/neck-decoration on top of that. I don't know if you can envision that but I think it'd look really cool, still keep a representative of Hellenic Egypt (i.e. the Egypt of Ptolemy and Cleopatra) and add a much needed LH to the database (I think the Ptolemy I currently use is actually supposed to be Masinissa of Zama who will be a leader for the Berbers once I get around to it).

What do you guys think?

 

[The Almighty dF]

I just came up with a really cool idea for a new Ptolemy LH. Originally I was going to use pencilgod's Nefertiti as a fourth Egyptian leader replacing Ptolemy. My new idea is to use John adams, give him the gold laurels from Constantine, use Shaka's body (reskinned of course), put the armor from pencilgod's Mark Antony over that, and then put Ramasses brestplate/neck-decoration on top of that. I don't know if you can envision that but I think it'd look really cool, still keep a representative of Hellenic Egypt (i.e. the Egypt of Ptolemy and Cleopatra) and add a much needed LH to the database (I think the Ptolemy I currently use is actually supposed to be Masinissa of Zama who will be a leader for the Berbers once I get around to it).

What do you guys think?

I like the sound of this, but I'm not sure... Egypt as it is is pretty pre-Hellenism. I'd almost suggest replacing Ptolemy with another pre-hellenic leader and then making a Helenistic civ. Maybe move Alexander there as well.
That's probably not a good idea, though. We've already got a lot of overlapping civilizations as it is.

 

[MadmanOfALeader]

Hellenic Egypt is still Egypt. By that logic, let's move Mao into his own civ since he was a commie.

 

[The Capo]

I have another idea for a Black Ops unit. This unit could be good for a late modern/early future era. He'd get the ability to paradrop, explore rival territory, start with Guerllla I, Woodsman I and Amphibious and possibly have the ability to do certain spy missions (although I haven't really worked that part out yet). I will also give him the hidden nationality ability. They'd be rather expensive (probably the same attack as a Mech Infantry maybe a bit higher) and they'd be a national unit so you'd be limited to three.

What do you think of that?

 

[The Capo]

I'm compiling the list of new leaders and I ran into the Celts. So I don't overwhelm myself I was only going to give them one more leader. Its between Cartimandua, Vercingetorix and Cunobelin. They all have their advantages; Cartimandua would add another female leader to the game (albeit for a civ that already has a female leader, plus I have a cool idea for her), Vercingetorix would be cool to have for a Gallic wars scenario, and Cunobelin was a leader for the Celts in Civ2.

Right now I am leaning towards Cartimandua, but what do you guys think?

 

[IgorS]

I'm compiling the list of new leaders and I ran into the Celts. So I don't overwhelm myself I was only going to give them one more leader. Its between Cartimandua, Vercingetorix and Cunobelin. They all have their advantages; Cartimandua would add another female leader to the game (albeit for a civ that already has a female leader, plus I have a cool idea for her), Vercingetorix would be cool to have for a Gallic wars scenario, and Cunobelin was a leader for the Celts in Civ2.

Right now I am leaning towards Cartimandua, but what do you guys think?

Are you planning on making one of these or using an existing LH?

 

[MadmanOfALeader]

There's already a Vercingetorix LH, by MethylOrange. And you said he was going on the Enemies of Rome pack.

I actually think he's the Celtic leader par excellence, but if not him, Cartimadua. I don't see what's so great about Cunobelin.

 

[The Almighty dF]

There's already a Vercingetorix LH, by MethylOrange. And you said he was going on the Enemies of Rome pack.

I actually think he's the Celtic leader par excellence, but if not him, Cartimadua. I don't see what's so great about Cunobelin.

Seconding. I'd love to see Vercingetorix, but Cartimadua could be awesome.

Also, Pavillions were still in use during Mao's reign. They're basically really pretty gazebos. Obelisks and war chariots on the other hand...
I guess it is just me being picky, though.
Edit: Yeah, the more I think about this, the more I realize I'm just being picky. I do kinda wish Egypt had a UB from a different era, though.

Actually, that makes me think. Will we ever get a modern Egyptian leader?

 

[MadmanOfALeader]

Yes. Gamal Abdul Nasser will be the fourth leader of the Arabs.

 

[The Almighty dF]

Yes. Gamal Abdul Nasser will be the fourth leader of the Arabs.

Ah, awesome.

 

[The Capo]

In my mind there is a marked difference between the Egyptian and Arab civilization. In Civ terms when we say Egypt we are speaking of the land of the Pharoahs and not really its modern incarnation (which is better exemplified by the Arabs). Here is how I mark the difference; even in Hellenic-Egypt there was a great deal of reverence for the old gods and customs (in fact many of them influenced Hellenic mythology itself). Even when the Romans took over the cultural identity of the ancient Egyptians was still very present. After the centuries this waned due to the influence of Christianity (and the fact that now it was the Christian scribes who were doing the writing, rather than the scribes of the Pharoahs), and was pretty much eradicated with the advent of Islamic conquerors who had a much more rigid approach to religious diversity, particularly the Mamlukes (at least at the time). So to me after the onset of Christianity followed by Islam what we call Egyptian culture no longer really existed and was replaced by the new Arab culture.

That is where I draw the line. So Ptolemy as a leader for Egypt is fine to me, he was a Pharoah after all.

 

[The Capo]

And as for the Celts; Vercingetorix will be a leader for the Gauls, so he's out. And screw Cunobelin. I have an awesome idea for Cartimandua and I think everyone will absolutely love the LH when I'm finished with it. Besides I haven't made a female leaderhead yet.

Here's the list of new leaders so far:

- Konrad Adenauer (Germany)*
- Canute (Vikings)*
- Trajan/Vespasian/Hadrian/Marius/Cincinattus/Scipio Africanus (I haven't decided which yet) (Rome)*
- Cartimandua (Celts)
- Cixi (China)*
- Jingu (Japan)*
- Atotzli (Aztecs, sorry Madman its happening)*
- Ataturk (Ottomans, will be renamed Turks)*
- Cetshwayo (Zulus)
- Lalibela/Menelik (Ethiopians)
- Askia (Mali)
- Smoke Jaguar (replaces 18 Rabbit) (Maya)*
- Sejong the Great (Korea)*
- Jawarhalal Nehru (India)
- Clovis (Franks, who will replace the HRE)
- Cardinal Richelieu (France)*
- Gemal Abdel Nasser (Arabia)
- Xerxes (Persia)*
- Ogedei Khan (Mongols)

The * means the LH is already made.

So far I have plans to redo Henry VIII (Henry's attire will be based on the clothing worn in the Showtime series "the Tudors"), Ptolemy, Amenhotep III, Charles V, Hiawatha, Hitler, Solomon, and Basil II. For clarity's sake, Amenhotep III will be the "Egyptian Pharoah" LH in my gallery, Chalres V will be the one in my gallery (the current one is an older one), Solomon will also be used from my gallery as well.

Although I did like Constantine being a leader for both Rome and the Byzantines, with a new fourth Roman leader Constantine will be available only as a Byzantine leader.

Charles V will now be a leader for Spain (in the regular version) and will be a leader for both Spain and Austria in the deluxe edition.

Charlemagne will only be a leader for the Franks, along with Clovis.

Mandela will remain as a Zulu leader for now. Partially because I like him, but also because I am not sure that I want to make a South Africa module in the future and don't want to leave him out of my mod. This may change of course.

If I missed anything you've seen me mention in the past please let me know. I may have forgot something.

EDIT: This, and the next module pack which will come out with it, basically means I will be working on something like 15 to 20 new leaderheads. Quite an undertaking, so no complaining in the LH Request thread that nobody is making leaderheads!!! Damn it!

 

[The Almighty dF]

I like your selection. Jigu is a bit of an odd choice, but it brings some diversity at least.

I have a suggestion, though. Well, I'd make two suggestions but only one of the two leaders has a leaderhead already available.
Any chance of Greece getting another leader? Extra has a really nice Leonidas userhead, not sure who made it.
I'm totally not asking because I want to have Xerxes vs Leonidas, and 300 is entirely not a guilty pleasure of mine.

I'd also suggest another leader for the Khmer to represent Laos... but that'd be yet another leaderhead for you to make, so the Khmer are fine with Sury and Poley.

Also, of the Romans you suggested, Hadrian would be pretty awesome. Either him or Scipio Africanus. Either we have epic battles with the Celts or we have epic battles with Carthage, either way it'll be awesome.

Also, nice to see we'll be able to recreate the Anglo-Zulu war a bit better now that we have Cetsch to go up against Victoria.

 

[MadmanOfALeader]

Askia is more a Songhai leader than a Malinese one.

Bah, I can always get rid of Atotztli myself!

I'll try get some diplotext for these leaders though.

 

[IgorS]

Quite an undertaking, so no complaining in the LH Request thread that nobody is making leaderheads!!! Damn it!

The complaint was actually, that nobody other than you is available for requests. And you aren't available too because you're still working on previous requests (ours and your own).
Anyway, your project looks very ambitious! How many weeks do you think this whole project might take? At what stage are you now?

 

[MadmanOfALeader]

Also, of the Romans you suggested, Hadrian would be pretty awesome. Either him or Scipio Africanus. Either we have epic battles with the Celts or we have epic battles with Carthage, either way it'll be awesome.

I think we already have epic battles with the Celts, with JC. He even wrote a book on it!

I think Trajan would be the best choice, as he was both an excellent builder and an excellent general. And he ruled the Roman Empire during its maximum size.

 

[The Capo]

Yeah, I'm still on the fence about Rome. I wanted to do a republican-era leader (like Scipio or Marius), but Trajan sounds cool too. So I haven't decided that. Either way I'm just going to use pencilgod's Marcus Antonius LH so it doesn't matter really. Although if I do a republican LH I'll be changing the background on it.

The reason I am adding Atotzli is because in the "regular version" (i.e. without the extra civs) I wanted to add more leaders. That is the only reason why. It is meant for MP play for our diplogame group. So if I used her as an Arawak leader she wouldn't be available. So there's your reasoning. I could always not have her as an Aztec leader in the deluxe version so I can use her for the Arawaks later of course.

As far as estimates on when this will be released; making LHs is not very time consuming for me. I have it down to a science so its pretty easy to pump them out. I'd say around a month or so for the LHs and probably two months, maybe three for the mods themselves. So between three and four months for the whole thing. While I haven't started on it, per se, a lot of the material already exists so its just a matter of putting it all together. The most time consuming part will be the XML work and the python. Plus I have to learn some SDK so coding is going to take the majority of the time.

 

[MadmanOfALeader]

Any idea what Clovis's personality will be like? I'm writing his diplotext.