[BtS] DIPLOMACY: a mod for Diplogames!

[The Almighty dF]

I remember the Leonidas LH, and I don't know that I liked it too much. I am pretty particular when it comes to which LHs make the cut.

Ah, found it again.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=266650

My only complaint with it is how skinny he is. The head and helmet are -very- well done, though.

Edit: C. Roland's in the same thread is nice.

 

[Xenomorph]

Also is this going to be an early/classical unit or a medieval unit?

It was used during the early middle ages, so it would kinda fit either. As suggested before, it'd probably be best as a swordsman replacement.

 

[The Almighty dF]

It was used during the early middle ages, so it would kinda fit either. As suggested before, it'd probably be best as a swordsman replacement.

Yea, this. It was used around 770AD till about 810AD. At the earliest, it should be a swordsman.

 

[The Capo]

Hey, well I don't think it was necessary that I do this but I reskinned the old Alexander and I was thinking of using him as Themistocles. Partially because I didn't much like the Leonidas LH (although I suppose I could add a beard and new helmet to C.Rolands and use it) but Themistocles would be a leader from the same time (in fact they were contemporaries). He was also an Athenian politician and naval commander and I saw in a documentary that they had him wearing armor similar to this which is what I based it on. Check it out and let me know what you think...

 

[The Almighty dF]

Hey, well I don't think it was necessary that I do this but I reskinned the old Alexander and I was thinking of using him as Themistocles. Partially because I didn't much like the Leonidas LH (although I suppose I could add a beard and new helmet to C.Rolands and use it) but Themistocles would be a leader from the same time (in fact they were contemporaries). He was also an Athenian politician and naval commander and I saw in a documentary that they had him wearing armor similar to this which is what I based it on. Check it out and let me know what you think...

Very nice.
Maybe we could have both?

It'd just be kinda nice to have a Spartan thrown in.
...and totally not also because I want to fight Xerxes as Leonidas, and especially not so I can repeat memes. >.> <.<

 

[The Capo]

Very nice.
Maybe we could have both?

It'd just be kinda nice to have a Spartan thrown in.
...and totally not also because I want to fight Xerxes as Leonidas, and especially not so I can repeat memes. >.> <.<

Alright, alright, I'll put in Leonidas. Can't you see I'm just trying to be lazy over here?

 

[The Almighty dF]

Alright, alright, I'll put in Leonidas. Can't you see I'm just trying to be lazy over here?

But you can't be lazy!
THIS. IS.
Greek history we're talking bout here.

 

[The Capo]

Just so you know, once I fix up his hair on the temples a bit we'll have the revampled Vanilla Alex ready to be a new Greek leader. I took the laurels off and gave him that Hellenic crown/headband thing. We just have to give this guy a name and finish up Alex and we're ready to rock and roll...

 

[MadmanOfALeader]

Weren't you going to use him as Ptolemy Soter?

In my opinion, there's four leaders who would best embody Greece: Alexander, Pericles, Leonidas, and Venizelos. Alexander represents Macedonia, Pericles represents Athens, Leonidas represents Sparta, and Venizelos represents modern Greece.

Venizelos actually wouldn't be that hard to make. He certainly looks like Janis Cakste with a mustache. He would play as a good contemporary of Ataturk.

 

[The Almighty dF]

Weren't you going to use him as Ptolemy Soter?

In my opinion, there's four leaders who would best embody Greece: Alexander, Pericles, Leonidas, and Venizelos. Alexander represents Macedonia, Pericles represents Athens, Leonidas represents Sparta, and Venizelos represents modern Greece.

Venizelos actually wouldn't be that hard to make. He certainly looks like Janis Cakste with a mustache. He would play as a good contemporary of Ataturk.

I kinda like this idea, but he looks like he could be a bit of work.

One thing I really love it to see enemies of other leaders added. Like Churchill has Hitler, FDR has Hirohito, Leonidas has Xerxes, etc., etc.
If we didn't hit 5 English leaders already I'd suggest maybe Lionheart to go against Saladin. For now, I alternate between the two queens for Crusades.

 

[The Capo]

In all honesty I think Lysander would be a better representative of Sparta than Leonidas. While Leonidas is a cool leader I don't really think he actually achieved much (from a role of leadership) other than interrupting the movement of Persian soldiers and allowing the Greeks to organized a defense. On the other hand Lysander had a more effective role as the leader of the Spartans and lead them to victory over their Athenian allies. Having said that, the models would probably look the same anyway so it isn't such a big deal. Having a modern Greek leader would be cool too, but I consider the civ in BtS to be more of an ancient Greek incarnation rather than including the modern era as well, plus that LH does actually look like it might be difficult to create, even though it may not seem that way.

I think ultimately we are going to have something to the effect of Alexander, Pericles, Leonidas/Lysander, and then a Phyrrus/Cleisthenes/Solon/Milthiades or something like that rather than a modern leader. I could look into it but the more I add the longer everything else takes and I'm starting to get impatient with waiting to do the mod itself. I might actually do the mod before finishing this next module pack because I am going to have to wait on a few other people to finish it.

There are a few reasons for this. The first one is, despite my best efforts I can't seem to get the damn Assyrian units to work. Mechaerik has agreed to help me on this so once I get them to him hopefully he can fix that up. Another is the problem with the damn Filipino units, they are not coming out well at all or to my liking in any sense of the word. So basically what I am going to have to do is one of two things; the first is replace them with another civ like Polynesia. Or I can wait until I can get this stuff together and do the mod first. Since I am making a regular and a deluxe edition I'd do the regular one first since its the same as the deluxe just with less civs and rather than simply add Iroquois and Israel, I can also add Polynesia and then replace them with someone else when I release Module Pack III which will be available (hopefully) between the releases of the two versions of the mod.

And regarding Ptolemy; I have a new plan for him, so the old Alex is fair game now. Also, for Ptolemy do you think he'd look better with or without a Pharonic head-dress? Otherwise I'd give him a crown similar to the Alex LH I posted above or I'd give him laurels. The rest of his attire I already have planned out and I think it will look really cool.

 

[MadmanOfALeader]

Hmmm.... I think you should probably go with Pyrrhus, since he beat the Romans.

 

[MadmanOfALeader]

I have some diplotext for Pyrrhus. They make references to his military ability, the famous Pyrrhic victory, and the fact that life in Greek Italy was often in luxury and abundance.

<TEXT>
<Tag>AI_DIPLO_FIRST_CONTACT_LEADER_PYRRHUS_1</Tag>1
<English>Welcome to the [OUR_CIV_ADJ] domain, where life is really the life! I am [OUR_NAME] and I offer to you my hand in peace. Turn your back on us, however, and your armies will regret attacking us - if they have any soldiers left, that is!</English>
</TEXT>
<TEXT>
<Tag>AI_DIPLO_REFUSE_TO_TALK_LEADER_PYRRHUS_1</Tag>
<English>Sorry, wrong number!</English>
</TEXT>
<TEXT>
<Tag>AI_DIPLO_NO_PEACE_LEADER_PYRRHUS_1</Tag>
<English>No! We will crush the [CT_EMPIRE] even if it costs half of my soldiers to do it!</English>
</TEXT>
<TEXT>
<Tag>AI_DIPLO_GREETINGS_ATT_FR_LEADER_PYRRHUS_1 </Tag>
<English>Come on, come on! Our friend [CT_NAME] is here, so let's get the banquet ready!</English>
</TEXT>
<TEXT>
<Tag>AI_DIPLO_GREETINGS_ATT_FUR_LEADER_PYRRHUS_ 1</Tag>
<English>Not even all the wine in [OUR_CIV_SHORT] will erase all my nasty memories of you, [CT_NAME].</English>
</TEXT>
<TEXT>
<Tag>AI_DIPLO_DEMAND_TRIBUTE_POWER_WEAKER_PYRRHUS _1</Tag>
<English>Prove to me you are not as stupid as you look, [CT_NAME].</English>
</TEXT>
<TEXT>
<Tag>AI_DIPLO_DEMAND_TRIBUTE_POWER_EQUAL_PYRRHUS_ 1</Tag>
<English>I hope for both our sakes you choose to do us this favor. Such a great victory against [CT_CIV_SHORT] would surely undo me.</English>
</TEXT>
<TEXT>
<Tag>AI_DIPLO_DEMAND_TRIBUTE_POWER_STRONGER_PYRRHUS_1</Tag>
<English>You fool! Reject this offer and you shall see your armies battered by our mighty war elephants!</English>
</TEXT>

 

[The Almighty dF]

In all honesty I think Lysander would be a better representative of Sparta than Leonidas. While Leonidas is a cool leader I don't really think he actually achieved much (from a role of leadership) other than interrupting the movement of Persian soldiers and allowing the Greeks to organized a defense. On the other hand Lysander had a more effective role as the leader of the Spartans and lead them to victory over their Athenian allies. Having said that, the models would probably look the same anyway so it isn't such a big deal. Having a modern Greek leader would be cool too, but I consider the civ in BtS to be more of an ancient Greek incarnation rather than including the modern era as well, plus that LH does actually look like it might be difficult to create, even though it may not seem that way.

I think ultimately we are going to have something to the effect of Alexander, Pericles, Leonidas/Lysander, and then a Phyrrus/Cleisthenes/Solon/Milthiades or something like that rather than a modern leader. I could look into it but the more I add the longer everything else takes and I'm starting to get impatient with waiting to do the mod itself. I might actually do the mod before finishing this next module pack because I am going to have to wait on a few other people to finish it.

There are a few reasons for this. The first one is, despite my best efforts I can't seem to get the damn Assyrian units to work. Mechaerik has agreed to help me on this so once I get them to him hopefully he can fix that up. Another is the problem with the damn Filipino units, they are not coming out well at all or to my liking in any sense of the word. So basically what I am going to have to do is one of two things; the first is replace them with another civ like Polynesia. Or I can wait until I can get this stuff together and do the mod first. Since I am making a regular and a deluxe edition I'd do the regular one first since its the same as the deluxe just with less civs and rather than simply add Iroquois and Israel, I can also add Polynesia and then replace them with someone else when I release Module Pack III which will be available (hopefully) between the releases of the two versions of the mod.

And regarding Ptolemy; I have a new plan for him, so the old Alex is fair game now. Also, for Ptolemy do you think he'd look better with or without a Pharonic head-dress? Otherwise I'd give him a crown similar to the Alex LH I posted above or I'd give him laurels. The rest of his attire I already have planned out and I think it will look really cool.

I'd go with a crown for Ptolemy.

Also, a thought.
If we had Lysander, he'd probably be Agg/Cha Agg/Imp or Imp/Cha (Any combination of the three works, really, since he was a great general who took Athens), whereas Leonidas would be Prot/Cha.

Personally, I'd kinda like to have a Churchill-like defender for Greece. That and a deep love for the Battle of Thermopylae.

In the end it's up to you, though.

 

[The Capo]

Alright Pyrrhus of Epirus it is! Mainly because he doesn't appear to have had a beard in most of the statues of him, which is good because I'd have to make the helmet bigger on this guy to fit the beard and I think the helmet already looks big...

Although in all of the images of statues I can find he has laurels on his helmet. I'll put them on and see if this makes the LH look stupid. I am also working on a cool BG for him too, so hopefully this will make a great leaderhead and a good addition to Greece.

As far as the mod and modules go; what I am going to do at this point is start work on making the mod. Because I am sorry this latest module pack is taking forever to make I am going to add Polynesia to the list of civs in the regular version of the mod. Which means that Israel, Iroquois and Polynesia will be the three added civs to the regular version (the deluxe will have all of the modules in it). The Franks and Sioux will replace the HRE and Native Americans respectively. I'll try and finish Pyrrhus as soon as I can, the BG may give me a bit of trouble though.

 

[The Almighty dF]

Alright Pyrrhus of Epirus it is! Mainly because he doesn't appear to have had a beard in most of the statues of him, which is good because I'd have to make the helmet bigger on this guy to fit the beard and I think the helmet already looks big...

Although in all of the images of statues I can find he has laurels on his helmet. I'll put them on and see if this makes the LH look stupid. I am also working on a cool BG for him too, so hopefully this will make a great leaderhead and a good addition to Greece.

As far as the mod and modules go; what I am going to do at this point is start work on making the mod. Because I am sorry this latest module pack is taking forever to make I am going to add Polynesia to the list of civs in the regular version of the mod. Which means that Israel, Iroquois and Polynesia will be the three added civs to the regular version (the deluxe will have all of the modules in it). The Franks and Sioux will replace the HRE and Native Americans respectively. I'll try and finish Pyrrhus as soon as I can, the BG may give me a bit of trouble though.

Very nice helmet.

Polynesia is a nice idea.
I figure later on there could be a Caribbean civ too (I remember you mentioning something about adding Jamaica.)
The two would have fairly similar UU's, so it'd be kinda like killing two birds (albeit one bird won't be till later) with one stone.
I think Polynesian units exist, I know two mods I have add them as a civ, I just haven't tried playing as them. I probably should.

 

[The Capo]

Okay I got the Assyrian units fixed! So I think I can release the module pack, but I am going to replace the Philippenes with Polynesia because Bakuel has already made Polynesian units and this will make it much easier/quicker to release the pack. The Philippenes can wait.

 

[The Capo]

@ Madman, I need the Polynesian flags and buttons if you don't mind.

 

[MadmanOfALeader]

Here are the many buttons I have worked on. Polynesian and Frankish buttons are there.

I also replaced the Assyrian flag; I found a better-looking sun disk. I also made that garuda button you wanted for the Siamese. It's a really-cool looking silhouette.

Here's the rundown on the flags:

America: Statue of Liberty, Bald Eagle Head
Arabia: Camel
Argentina: Gaucho
Armenia: Silhouette of Mt. Ararat
Assyria: New Sun Disk
Australia: Recolored Southern Cross
Austria: Edelweiss
Berber: Berber symbol
Brazil: Globe, Recolored and Resized Armillary Sphere, Jaguar
Canada: Beaver
Celts: Triple Sphere
Chile: Huemul
China: Coat of Arms, Giant Panda
Congo: Resized Leopard Head
Cuba: Resized Red Star
Dutch: Windmill, Flag of Amsterdam
England: Rose, Bulldog
France: 3 Fleur-De-Lis, Eiffel Tower
Germany: Brandemburg Gate, Dachshund (Bonus Swastika)
Greece: Dolphin
Hittites: Chariot
Hungary: Resized Coat of Arms
Inca: New Symbol
India: Shiva Statue, Taj Mahal
Iran: Resized Coat of Arms, Lion and Sun
Ireland: Resized and Recolored Harp, Shamrock
Italy: Tower of Pisa
Japan: Redone Rising Sun button, Imperial Coat of Arms
Khmer: Royal Coat of Arms
Korea: Kim Jong Il's symbol
Lithuania: Columns of Gediminas
Mexico: Resized Eagle and Serpent, Chihuahua
Mongolia: Full Soyombo
Nubia: Anubis head
Ottomans: Symbol of Istanbul
Persia: Rhyton
Poland: Coat of Arms of Warsaw, Rodlo
Polynesia: Kamehameha's symbol, Tiki, Flag of Easter Island
Portugal: Cross of Aviz
Romania: Flag of Wallachia
Rome: She-Wolf, Colosseum
Russia: Russian Bear, Kremlin (Bonus Hammer and Sickle)
Scotland: Unicorn
Siam: Garuda
Sioux: Ogdala Sioux flag
Songhai: Resized Button
Spain: Burgundy Cross, Galleon
Switzerland: Matterhorn
Timurid: Three Dots
Vietnam: Resized Water Buffalo

Any button in particular you like better than what you're using now?

 

[The Capo]

Damn man, that's amazing. You'll have to give me a minute to look these over. Good job.

I also threw together this model for the Polynesian Marine. I just have to figure out a good head to use and it should be ready to go. Check it out.

EDIT: Those colors seem perfect to me. There are a lot of good flags there, I am certainly going to change some of them (probably Ottoman and Celts off the top of my head) and then there are a few tough decisions to make (for Rome I might change it to the she-wolf, or keep it as the SPQR flag... I just don't know!!!)