[BtS] JKP1187's NOT JUST ANOTHER NEXTWAR MOD

[avain]

First of all, I really like how this mod is shaping up; I'll probably include it at some point into a bigger mod I'll be doing - if you allow me to do so.

On Mission to Mars, I am starting to think that, perhaps Biological Warfare might be the best tech...

Ok, the rationale is not bad at all - what I can say is again my personal preference. I for one like to have these clean in a way that ok, BioWarfare may have caused it to happen, but there was certainly some streamlined research towards it (even if Mission to Mars is a project itself) - so I'd like to see a separate tech that'd have BioWarfare as the sole requirement, called eg. Mars Exploration, that would give you the Mission to Mars.
That was my 2 cents.

 

[ggalindo001]

Some design thoughts.

I've been home sick with a stomach virus for a couple of days, and my wife was out of town, so I had nothing to do but sit around and mess around with this. As a result, I played a couple of games back to back, and am starting to think about the space race.

Because I retained the original techs for the SS Thrusters (Superconductors) and SS Casing (Composites), while leaving the rest for the NextWar techs, the space race is a little drawn-out. It's still a race, but you'll always build the parts in order of the techs that are discovered, and while there may be a race between one or two civs, there doesn't seem to be a chance for a come-from-behind space win like there was in Civ I or II, for instance, by building a small, cheap, slow ship with a low % of success that actually makes it by the skin of its teeth.

Now, I actually like the techs that are assigned to the components, so I don't want to change those. (Composities = casing and the like.) But now I'm starting to think that Apollo Program needs to be, perhaps, renamed "Mission to Mars" and moved up to a later technology. That way, whenever the space race kicks off, at least several of the key technologies will have been discovered, and the race, so to speak, can begin in earnest immediately. (Besides, from a realism perspective, I think a successful manned Mars mission would be a more logical jump-off point to an interstellar mission than Apollo.)

Thoughts?

This sounds better than the original concept with the Apollo program, and I think it might add more intrigue in the extreme late game.

Currently playing a game on V1.11, emperor level, and the tech race seems artificially slow. It is 1920 and I'm researching Biology....everybody else is running one or two techs on the +/- side (except that idiot Saladin). I have spent the last 100 or so years in a very long war with Justinian (with my ally Tokugawa and Huayna Capac). I'm actually about positioned for a possible cultural victory.

Incidentally, I'm playing with no Tech Brokering, 5 other Civs on a smaller map. It is a good game, I'm in the score lead by about 100 points, but it is quite close.

Agree with the other poster, this is the best Next War mod out there.

Also, did you change the religion icons? They seem all out of sorts. I wonder if there is a disconnect in the XML file....

 

[jkp1187]

This sounds better than the original concept with the Apollo program, and I think it might add more intrigue in the extreme late game.

Currently playing a game on V1.11, emperor level, and the tech race seems artificially slow. It is 1920 and I'm researching Biology....everybody else is running one or two techs on the +/- side (except that idiot Saladin). I have spent the last 100 or so years in a very long war with Justinian (with my ally Tokugawa and Huayna Capac). I'm actually about positioned for a possible cultural victory.

Incidentally, I'm playing with no Tech Brokering, 5 other Civs on a smaller map. It is a good game, I'm in the score lead by about 100 points, but it is quite close.

Interesting. I'm currently playing using the Terra2 mapscript, standard map, 12 civs, and tech seems right on pace. If anything a little fast -- I had Railroads at early 1800s, several civs already have assembly line (including Joao, with whom I'm at war. Of course, I don't have it yet.) Prince level, normal speed, no tech brokering. Apollo Program is set to Bio-War, too. I'm trying to go for a space race win, just to test out how that works.

Agree with the other poster, this is the best Next War mod out there.

Also, did you change the religion icons? They seem all out of sorts. I wonder if there is a disconnect in the XML file....

Thanks!

I did not change any of the religious icons, and I'm not having trouble with them. Can you upload a screenshot? Is anyone else having trouble with the icons?

 

[ggalindo001]

Interesting. I'm currently playing using the Terra2 mapscript, standard map, 12 civs, and tech seems right on pace. If anything a little fast -- I had Railroads at early 1800s, several civs already have assembly line (including Joao, with whom I'm at war. Of course, I don't have it yet.) Prince level, normal speed, no tech brokering. Apollo Program is set to Bio-War, too. I'm trying to go for a space race win, just to test out how that works.



Thanks!

I did not change any of the religious icons, and I'm not having trouble with them. Can you upload a screenshot? Is anyone else having trouble with the icons?

Here is a couple of screen shots from where I am right now. I wonder if my tech slowdown is just odd....this is the first game on this mod where it seems to be artificially slow, so maybe it is the game and contestants.

The first thumbnail shows that the city screen uses the right icons, the second thumbnail is a zoom in of a city, you can see the religious icons are different. Third thumbnail, different city, same thing. You can also see the religious icons on the scoreboard.

 

[jkp1187]

Do the icons in the main religion screen look okay?

 

[ggalindo001]

Do the icons in the main religion screen look okay?

Yes they do. The only problem is in the actual main game display itself. It really isn't a big deal, I may do a fresh re-install after this game is over. As nobody else is having these problems, I'm sure it is some file on my side that got corrupted.

 

[jkp1187]

No problem. Are you getting the same glitch without the mod?

 

[avain]

jkp1187,

- If you are interested why does the assault mech's range attack not deal any damage: change <iAirCombatLimit>0</iAirCombatLimit> to 100 or whatever suits you. If the 0 is intentional, then sorry.

- I hope you don't mind if I include your mod in my modpack?

Thanks

 

[jkp1187]

I was not aware of that problem with the Mechs. I will look into it.

Feel free to use this mod, just please give me credit and link to this thread. Thanks.

 

[avain]

I was not aware of that problem with the Mechs. I will look into it.

Feel free to use this mod, just please give me credit and link to this thread. Thanks.

Of course! Thanks for the hard work you put into this mod!

 

[ggalindo001]

Updated to v. 1.11. See first post for download link.

Key changes:

1.) Added resource depletion code.
2.) Nanoids now available promotion for Armor, Gunships, Naval Units.
3.) New icons for NextWar unit classes (thanks Mamba)
4.) Added civilopedia entry for NextWar changes and rules under "Beyond the Sword Concepts".
5.) Arcology now requires both Hydroponics and Composites.
6.) Culture costs now increased by 5% for all game speeds -- to match the fact that there are now 5% more game turns.
7.) Added new random event "Slip and Fall".
8.) Updated with new random events from JKP1187's Random Events v. 1.08


Constructive feedback appreciated -- especially on whether or not culture/tech is balanced properly and whether or not the new resource depletion code works properly. (It looked good to me, but would appreciate positive/negative feedback.)

There are one or two minor tweaks that may be made (I will see what I can do about bio weapons, for instance.)

OK finished my game on Emperor. Won in year 2081, culture victory (deliberate strategy from about 1900 on). Tech as I alluded to in an earlier post was way behind; I was the leader, and did not have any future type techs. Definately a slow tech game for whatever reason.

Basically ran with the strategy of a culture victory. Gathered as many religions as I could, spammed them in my cities, always got the major buildings (the 50% culture ones) concentrated in 2 cities, with my capital being a wonder generator, and GP artist farm. With the deliberate approach, it still required a lot of micromanaging in my 2nd and 3rd legendary culture cities. Certainly slower than it should have been, but running the accelerator at full cultural max (by the end, was running at a 80% culture slider) and at the end, had those 2 cities pumping around 600 culture per turn. I also used the Great Artists to culture bomb 2 times in the late game.

One other civ had 2 legendary culture cities, but their third wasn't close.

Overall conclusion, I think you achieved your objective on the culture tweak. Had there been more technology in the game, it would not have been a viable victory.

Did not experience any resource depletion in my game.

My competitors did engage in a number of nuclear wars with each other. I was supplying uranium to almost everyone.....is that unethical?

 

[jkp1187]

OK finished my game on Emperor. Won in year 2081, culture victory (deliberate strategy from about 1900 on). Tech as I alluded to in an earlier post was way behind; I was the leader, and did not have any future type techs. Definately a slow tech game for whatever reason.

Basically ran with the strategy of a culture victory. Gathered as many religions as I could, spammed them in my cities, always got the major buildings (the 50% culture ones) concentrated in 2 cities, with my capital being a wonder generator, and GP artist farm. With the deliberate approach, it still required a lot of micromanaging in my 2nd and 3rd legendary culture cities. Certainly slower than it should have been, but running the accelerator at full cultural max (by the end, was running at a 80% culture slider) and at the end, had those 2 cities pumping around 600 culture per turn. I also used the Great Artists to culture bomb 2 times in the late game.

One other civ had 2 legendary culture cities, but their third wasn't close.

Overall conclusion, I think you achieved your objective on the culture tweak. Had there been more technology in the game, it would not have been a viable victory.

Okay, that's good to hear. Like I said, technology in my games has been moving pretty well, but I've been playing on Prince level. That said, Mansa Musa won a culture win around 1980 in one of them (Should've declared war on him earlier than I did, instead I got distracted by a war with Saladin....)

Did not experience any resource depletion in my game.

I haven't yet either. I have reworked all the numbers slightly to make depletion a little more likely...at the same time, I've removed all of the renewable resources from the depletion code. Doesn't make sense to suddenly run out of, for instance, horses, and there's already a 'dust bowl' random event that covers poor farming techniques.

My competitors did engage in a number of nuclear wars with each other. I was supplying uranium to almost everyone.....is that unethical?

No, it's not. But keep in mind that I get my ethics advice from Dr. Nick Riviera.

 

[jkp1187]

Reconsidering ggalindo's last post, I may slightly reduce tech costs across-the-board...while I've been zooming up the tech tree in recent games, I've also been way out in front, aided by Sushi and Mining, and control of several former national capitals. "normal" pace AI civs did not keep up at all. True, they were fighting a lot of wars, but when I consider that nine new expensive techs have added at the end, I think a slight change is in order.

 

[BradV2]

I would hate to see the costs for techs reduced. I find that they pass too quickley at the endgame as it is. If the problem is the culture race, I would like to see the amount of culture points needed to win increased, rather than the cost of techs decreased. As for the AI civs falling behind, isn't there a formula in the game for making researching techs cheaper depending on how many Civs know it? Could that be tweaked instead?
Still eagerly awaiting your merge with Dale's Combat Mod...

 

[jkp1187]

My concern with the tech rate is that in my games, I have found that I've managed to go crazy with technology, while the AI players seem to be seriously lagging. The difference seems to be that I tend to prioritize sushi and mining (and annexing nearby civs,) and that seems to make a big difference. (It also may be a sign that I need to start playing at a higher level.).

My concern is having a situation where civs dont have enough time to exploit the new techs, and I'm trying to be as scrupulous as possible with rate changes....

@BradV2: what settings (map, size, game speed, # of civs) do you usually play?

Also, the DCM merge will come next weekend, hopefully. I want to make a small SDK change of my own (adding an on/off switch in the Custom Game menu for the resource depletion code,) and once that's done I will try to merge.

 

[BradV2]

The only full game I played was a huge map, marathon speed, noble difficulty, 12 or more Civs (one of which was a friend). My friend won with a cultural victory, which he could have gotten much earlier if he had wished (though he had a ton of wonders in his big three cities). His main complaint was, by the time you get the mechs and cyborgs out and ready to use, the space ship is ready for launch (which is one of the reasons why I'd like to see all the space parts moved to the "Future Technology" tech, but maybe that's something I'll try to do on my own).
In the middle of a couple of other games using your mod, but in those games we're also using a huge, 1939 WWII map that I found on these forums (puts a chill down your spine to see an energy dome erected over Berlin, with Nazi automotons pouring out).
Just a couple of other ideas for the future; I've always thought that the SDI defence came too early, and is too powerful (compared to what is possible today). You should need more techs than just "Laser" to build it, it should'nt have a whopping 75% chance of interception, and it should take more hammers to build. Also, the bomb shelters offer way too much protection from nukes, and at a very cheap price. Maybe keep the price the same, but reduce the amount of protection offered.
Some of the archology domes get insanely large, and don't seem to have any relation to city size. Maybe one of the smaller sizes could be chosen as the standard size, so that they still stand out but don't dominate the landscape (don't know how easy this is to do however).
Besides increasing the strength of the bio-missiles (maybe 25?), I think the 15% strength reduction to the new anti-biological warfare promotion should be reduced or removed.

 

[jkp1187]

A couple of thoughts:

I agree with your complaint about the space race. After going back and forth over it, I am going to add a new technology "astrogation" that has as a prereq bio-war, composites and satellites. This tech will unlock the Mission to Mars national project (formerly the Apollo Program) that initiates the space race. The hammer cost will be increased to at least 2000 hammers, possibly 2500. (For comparison, the most expensive spaceship part costs 2000 hammers).

I am thinking about a small increase in strength to bio weapons, havent decided yet.

I agree with you on the arcology appearance. Unfortunately, I do not know how to alter such things (if someone could point me in the right direction, I'd appreciate it.)

Your points are well taken about SDI/bomb shelters, but I do not want to alter this, as the balance has been struck this way for the vanilla game, and doesn't affect any NextWar-specific features. (For what it's worth, nukes have a shot at destroying bomb shelters, so if the first nuke doesnt do much damage, the second and third could wipe 'em out.)

I disagree about the anti-bio promotion on realism grounds. Use of NBC protective gear usually involves a reduction in combat effectiveness. Plus, if the biomissile strength is increased, this balance may make more sense.

Also, as an aside, i am changing nanoids so that this promotion is available with either Combat 3 or Drill 3. Previously, it was only available with Combat 4, which pretty much meant it would never see use.

 

[Opferlamm]

I would hate to see the costs for techs reduced. I find that they pass too quickley at the endgame as it is. If the problem is the culture race, I would like to see the amount of culture points needed to win increased, rather than the cost of techs decreased. As for the AI civs falling behind, isn't there a formula in the game for making researching techs cheaper depending on how many Civs know it? Could that be tweaked instead?

in the Caesium-Mod for Warlords there was a techleak-mod-component that leaked techpoints on trade routes.

 

[jkp1187]

Forthcoming change list:

Two more changes in the works (open for comments). Recycling centers are going to now only provide +1 health. To offset this nerf, they will now cost 50% less. There are just too many health producing buildings at the end game (the CDC, the arcology string), and I would prefer the player to have to think just a little about coal plants vs. Nuke plants/hydro plants. (Coal is almost a no-brainer if you can just build recycling later.)

Next, I think that biomissile strength will stay as is, but with a 50% or 100% (EDIT: it will be 100%) bonus for attacks versus units with exposed people -- like gunpowder, siege, archery, melee, recon, mounted, and clones.

EDIT: Cyborgs and Automatons (the "clone" unit category) will now also be eligible for the Anti-biological warfare promotion.

Next release will be done as soon as I get the SDK mod compiled (which will include just the on/off switch for resource depletion.)

EDIT: Assault Mechs will also have iAirCombatLimit restored to 100 as it's supposed to be, meaning the AM's range attack will work again. That was my bad; I didn't notice that the value had been changed at some point along the line.

EDIT: the Dreadnought unit and unit category are going to be renamed "Titan" -- to prevent naming confusion for people who want to merge this mod with ones that include WWI-era Dreadnought naval units.

EDIT: If the play-test game goes as expected, I will also include a minor increase in costs for such things as production, growth, and the like. Basically, I'm going to leave the research value as it is, and increase everything else just slightly to balance the 5% increase in game turns. Hopefully, this will put to bed some of the complaints about players tech'ing too fast.

EDIT: I will also be including an alternate DLL with Lt. Bob's 40 Civ DLL for those who want to be able to use more than 18 civs, as long as Lt. Bob is okay with that.

 

[vivictius]

How would you use this along with a 34 or 40 civ mod?