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[BtS] "Mars, Now!"

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by The_J, Feb 28, 2009.

  1. mechaerik

    mechaerik Magician

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    Wait, so the riot event is NOT new? It seems odd to me, because i've never seen that event before and it occured to me twice in one game (not just a revolt, a riot that destroyed buildings and improvements).
     
  2. openair

    openair Chieftain

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    This is the only intromovie anyone sees, and the only one I am talking about. Im not trying to claim the odd random and unreproducable ctd you might get beyond turn 100 (i havn't had any my self tho) are caused by the movie. Only that if you ctd within 50 turns, and continue to ctd after loading saves of the same game, its caused some error related to the movie.
     
  3. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Retired Moderator

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    Okay, that's true.
    I'll change it :).

    Where did you move it?

    Thanks for the compliments :).
    I also hope, that i can solve it :(.


    No, it's not new :D.
    The pre-reqs have changed through the re-structuring of the tech-tree, so you get it earlier, i guess.

    :hmm:
    An other player said, that he saw both films with the full lenght, and didn't get any CtD in the whole game.
    I don't know, how this fits to the observations here :confused:.
     
  4. malima

    malima Chieftain

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    Hello again,
    problem with units shown as groups: its difficult to gif you a list of units that are in too big groups, because thats an asthetic problem. someone could find it looks good an anotherone find it looks not good. pioneer-tank is in my opinion really extrem overgrowded. Also the satellites. Other units depends on your personal opinion. I mean tanks (for example Battle-Tank) and mechanized units should shown as single units, but thats only my opinion.
    If it is possible i would be verry pleased, if you could gif a hint how to find your units in the different folders.
     
  5. openair

    openair Chieftain

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    Both films as in the civ intro and the mod intro? or the mod intro and the nvidia add? Because the only time i have a prob is when the nvidia add pops after skipping the mod intro. The nvidia add should only show when first launching civ, never when starting a game/scenerio. Other mods such as Fall from Heaven 2 also have intro clips but when i skip them I see the normal civ intro rather then the nvidia add and the mod runs np. If this is because the mods dont replace a large amounts of the terrian gfx or how you have implemented your movie idk. (associated with the nvidia add, rather then an intro movie?)

    It also possible this only affects machines without nvidia hardware.
     
  6. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Retired Moderator

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    For the pioneer tank (and the scouts) please install the Patch, these units have the correct group sizes with the patch :).

    aesthetic problem: It's not really an aesthetic problem. I have made some mistakes within my xmls, and because of that they show up in bigger groups, and this should not be.

    The problem directly is, that in the UnitInfos.xmls the meshgroups are not right, so it's not a problem with the graphics itself, so you don't have to look at them.
    If you want to find the units, you have to do it the same way i do: Open the _object.xml files in the text folder, search for the names, and then search in the UnitInfos.xml for the internal name.
    After describing that: :blush: yes, dirty like hell :blush:, every modder or coder will hit me for that :blush:.

    The intro movie is added throug a modification in one of the python files (there's a tutorial in the turorial section), but i didn't have a real overview, what i did, i have to look at it again and find the mistake :(.

    :hmm:
    But should not, i think.
     
  7. arkham4269

    arkham4269 Court Writer - Orbis Mod

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    Here is a post I did awhile back on the Planetfall mod thread. I've edited it toward this mod, even though I'll keep it much of the flavor of Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri (SMAC) thoughts since they are similar to a Mars Mission in that you don't have much to start with. The only big issue is how bad off is Earth in Mars Now! mod? Really bad? Not bad at all? Sort of like in SMAC where the UNS Unity got off the planet and then most of the factions nuke each other pretty good? Anyway, here is what I wrote:

    * * *

    From my military background, I've had some issues with how SMAC did their units. While I realize that the factions on Planet didn't start with much, by their own tech tree, they rapidly get advanced very quickly. Plus, much of the stuff dumped from the UNS Unity was designed to help the colonists build up Planet. So I think there needs to be a bit more of a gradual ramp up in lethality of units. I think this would mostly be the same for Mars Now! even with Earth potentially able to send periodic 'help packages' from time to time. Unlike classic Civ, the difference is everyone knows how to make most things, it's just building up the infrastructure to be able to do it.

    One idea that has been bandied around in the Fury Road mod is to take a page from Fall From Heaven (FfH) in that units would automatically start to upgrade as certain techs become available. So instead of bronze, iron, mithril upgrades, the upgrades represent body armor, better ammo and maybe better training. Now this would work well with units that basically stay the same, just get newer weapons & armor but basically stay the same like infantry for example.

    Another way to use the FfH unit upgrade code is to make units progressively cheaper as you get more techs. Initial versions of a weapon will be really expensive, but can get cheaper over time. (Assuming you keep it basically the same) So if you don't want to have lots of different units to represent (like in SMAC) new weapons and armor, you could have these automatic promotions. This part applies more to vehicles, especially later, more futuristic weapon systems.

    Tier 1: Expensive w/high maintenance, especially since a lot of Mars, like the Moon, has a lot of fine dust that really does a number on machinery and vehicles.
    Tier 2: Gets cheaper, maintenance cost goes down, off/def strength goes up
    Tier 3: As above
    ...and then about that time in the game, I'd think you'd have something new to build and you'd start back over at Tier 1 for that new unit.

    (edited out a bit that isn't relevant to Mars Now! and get into talking about how I feel unit classes should roll out by groupings by function)

    Recon Units - Recon units obviously scout terrain and the like. However, the big question is prior to any Mars colonization, you'd have satellites in place and probably be able to map things out pretty well. That goes against 'classic' Civ and not being able to see the map. However, knowing what the map looks like and being able to see what is currently there is different. So one might argue that at the beginning of the game you can 'see' the whole map in the sense of knowing the lay of the land, but you need recon elements to push back the fog of war.

    * Scout: Initial unit that will have a minimal attack/defense as it is mostly guys in enclosed rover trucks rolling along.
    * LRRP: Long Rang Recon Patrol. This unit could have the sentry promotion (form FfH which allows the unit to see farther) as well as being able to recover faster in neutral or enemy terrain. This unit would probably want to rely on stealth and speed for protection, but would have better defense.
    * Combat Scout: Basically guys in APC/IFV's outfitted for recon with a decent attack/defense. Personally I don't see the need for this unit since I would expect recon to go toward UAV's like we are in today's armies. However, depending how the tech tree is, there might be a need for this.
    * UAV: Your basic Predator drone (which there are graphics for) The military is already going to these for a lot of different recon uses. It is because of this I don't see a need for an upgrade for the mech scout, unless they later could become a police unit.
    * Probe Team: (This applies to SMAC/Planetfall - don't know the status of spy/probe teams in the Mars Now! With the development of UAV's mid-game, it might be that your scout units could be upgraded to Probe teams.
    * Snipers: Another idea from the FfH mod is instead of having assassins, you could have sniper units. These would be units that can bypass the normal defenses and attack the weakest unit in a stack. Again scout/LRRP units might have the choice of upgrading to these or Probe teams.

    Infantry Units - Infantry is pretty basic.
    * Infantry: See my comments about automatic upgrades above. This would be a sort of easy way to have one unit get better over time so you don't have to have lots of different units to represent guys with different weapons and armor.
    * Police/MP: Obviously it's nice to have a 'garrison' unit. Plus they are nice to help control newly conquered cities.
    * SAM infantry: I don't think you should bother. By the time you have to worry about jets, you have the tech to make SAM vehicles. I mean lugging around a SA-7 is no fun; better to have them on a vehicle.
    * Mobile Infantry: See 'futuristic units' below

    Mechanized Units - Wheeled units should get some sort of road movement bonus. However, they should be restricted from certain terrain w/o roads. Tracked units should be able to go pretty much anywhere except mountains and squares that might have seas of 'Mars Dust' and thus couldn't take the weight of the vehicle.

    One issue in Civ is how much does the unit animation reflect the unit? Modern infantry don't walk to their target so obviously those infantry have trucks you don't see. Well the problem is that with APC's and definitely with IFV's, your 'truck' starts to become a big part (and expensive) of the unit. Now do you just have it to where the break up infantry units by what carries them or do you actually have to build those units as well?

    * Armored Personal Carriers (APC): Okay, here is a problem that I think hasn't been solved yet. Some of the first vehicles would be armored personnel carriers since they are basically an armored box to protect your infantry while you carry them to their target. Unfortunately, in discussion on the Fury Road mod, it has come out that the AI does use the code for carrying infantry (like found in the Rise of Mankind mod) very well and it give the human player a big advantage. Having played that mod and used 4 BTR's to carry 8 infantry right to a target and have them be able to attack on the same turn, I sort of agree. However, regardless of whether they carry infantry or not, I would think that a wheeled vehicle like the Russian BTR, the American Stryker or the German Fuchs would be the initial 'armored' unit for the different factions.

    In regard to Mars Now!, regardless of whether you build separate units to haul infantry, due to the lack (initially) of air, your 'truck' would end up being an APC anyway in that it would be armored for protection.

    * Infantry Fighting Vehicles(IFV): Depending on whether or not having infantry being carried by land units works or not, the next vehicle would be the Infantry Fighting Vehicle. Pretty much the difference between an APC and A IFV is one has Anti-tank type weapons and is designed to support the troops it carries in combat. APC's just haul the guys and stay out of the way for the most part.
    * Main Battle Tanks (MBT): Tanks, Panzers, main battle tanks, we all love them. However, realistically they are having a bit of a hard time in modern times since they are expensive and there are so many different ways to kill them now that is cheaper. the continuing IED war in IRQ/AFG is showing that. However, tanks are a shock weapon and so perhaps something like a current main battle tank might be appropriate. However, I think it is a toss up whether building these tough, but expensive units is worth it over building more of the less powerful vehicles. Plus most armies today are building Mobile Gun System (MGS) which is a APC or IFV armed with a tank gun such as the South African Patria. Another advantage to these types of vehicles is the basic chassis is easily be used for SAM units or other specialty vehicles so it cuts down on costs.

    One thing that make MBT's 'better' in Mars Now! is that with gravity being lighter, everything could be armored with heavier armor and thus you'd need heavier weapons to penetrate the armor. However, even with that, the problem is weapons that penetrate armor, even thick armor is currently a lot cheaper than building those vehicles so it's generally cheaper to build more lighter skinned vehicles and use speed and maneuver to avoid damage instead of trying to take it.

    * Artillery/MRLS: In regard to my comments about the problem of combat jets and lack of helicopters below, artillery would be very important. With the the lack of air, MRLS would be deadly since you don't have to really slag a vehicle to destroy it but merely pierce it's environmental 'bubble' as it were.

    Futuristic Vehicles: While I don't think the people on Mars would waste the resources on tanks, space mods like SMAC or Mars Now! is about the future so I'm thinking that for most of the game, you'd have 'cheap' APC's and IFV's moving infantry around (people are 'cheap') using the lighter vehicles the nations of the world are trending to right now with the occasional Mobile Gun System. However, sci-fi stories have all sorts of things like duralloy, collapsium, durachrome or flintsteel which are all incredibly tough and very heavy. So the minute some sort of contra-grav system is developed, I think you'd rapidly transition from lots of light units to fewer big, armored behemoths.

    * Hover-tanks: Initial unit using the new armor and contra-grav tech. As listed above, they would be initial expensive as well as cost a lot to maintain, but that could come down in time.
    * Ogres/Bolos: Even today, we're moving away from manned vehicles so what better system than AI's programmed to fight for us. They're big, bad and hard to stop! That and they should have the ability to attack multiple times a turn to show that their computer brain is able to do many things at once. All Hail the glory to the Dinochrome Brigade!
    * Mobile Infantry: Making powered armor isn't actually that science fictiony as they are working on it now. The problem is making a power source small enough. So I'm thinking you wouldn't see any 'starship troopers' till some sort of energy tech later in the game is developed. Consequently, most infantry built prior to that are going to be an easy kill, but that's how it would be.
    * Mecha: Personally I think mechs are cool...but a stupid military unit. For the most part, I think you're better off with a hover-tank since they are harder to see. I mean a walking 100 ton mech is sort of hard to miss. However, the neural-interlink that enables the operator to 'wear' the mech like a giant suit of power-armor might make them a better weapon than a bunch of guys in a vehicle.

    Air Units - One thing that is going to affect air units in Mars Now! is that Mars has a lot less atmospheric pressure than Earth and thus helicopters probably wouldn't work without HUGE rotors and planes will need some big wings. So until some sort of contra-grav is created, you really wouldn't see a lot of combat aircraft because they couldn't be fast enough to dodge missiles like they can on Earth. Sure you could build Zeppelin type airships which would work well in the low pressure atmosphere, but with missile technology, they'd be to easy to shoot down. So I would think it would be awhile till the tech would be good enough to create combat jets that could take work effectively in Mar's thin atmosphere. (Depending if Mars Now! ends up having more of an atmosphere through terraforming, this could change)

    * Copters: As said, while they could be made to work, I highly doubt you could make them to be efficient enough to warrant building them for combat. Plus helicopters are really vulnerable to ground fire and missiles. Just not worth the cost.
    * Combat Jets: Again, it probably be far up the tech level before these could be used. However, I could see them being used in a anti-plane role (see next)
    * Bombers: While going out of style on Earth, I could possibly see large bombers flying at very high altitudes for safety being used, dropping smart bombs which really are just mini-cruise missiles. I think the big question is whether it's worth it to build these or build one-shot missiles that can be fired from vehicles or longer range cruise missiles fired from the 'safety' of a base far away. The thin Martian atmosphere would probably allow for missiles to have a range far above what we have on ear. Again the question might be, how much satellites are there in orbit? We have the capability right now to fire missiles that download up-to-date real time GPS info from satellites as well as able to receive targeting info from base. So again, depending what's in orbit, it might be cheaper to shoot long-range missiles rather than use bombers.
    * Missiles: As mentioned, missiles are cheap and are only getting more deadly as they are able to have a 'brain' and use GPS info and the like to be really dangerous. Even without long range missiles, I expect to see land units having the ability carry missiles like naval units do in vanilla :bts: This would work especially well for Mechs and Ogres/Bolos to show they can do multiple attacks a turn.
    * Airships: These late game units in SMAC never made sense to me. If you have the contra-gravity strong enough to lift the heavy alloys needed in futuristic combat that far away from the ground, why build tanks at all? In most sci-fi, contra-gravity for smaller vehicles has a range limitation in that the field needs to be near the ground to work. Consequently, I wouldn't bother with these units. I would think that air units would have to rely on stealth technology to protect themselves since they couldn't carry the newer (and super heavy) armor like the ground units/mecha can.

    Some other ideas to think about is orbital weapons platforms and other orbital weapons like Project THOR as showcased in Larry Niven's novel Footfall which basically was simple kinetic weapons that could be dropped from orbit. Biological or gas weapons would be useless since everyone is already in environmental suits.
     
  8. malima

    malima Chieftain

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    Thank you The J!
     
  9. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Retired Moderator

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    @arkham: Thanks for the comments :) (i would like it, if i got more comments in this length) but i have to give you not really positive feedback :(.

    I got a writer for my background story, but he pauses at the moment.
    One of my guidlines were, that the earth is intact and not destroyed through any kind of catastrophe or war.

    Any concrete ideas :)?

    I think, the normal advanced start has a bit of this feeling, because you can initate your colony with a bit more "support".

    I think, the idea was good implemented in the both mods, but i see no good way to move it to mine.
    I would need more graphical effects, and it has not the right "flavor" for me.

    Yes, it was mentioned, that it would make more sense, if you would know the whole map, but also, that it would take some fun from the early game.
    But i got some background suggestions: A crash in the satelite system, or by the enemy hacked maps, so that you can't trust the satelite maps.


    I tried to implement the UAVs through the civ-specific units for the computerized society :).

    I would need some suggestions, what would make a good sense here :).

    I also like this feature from FfH2, but it can't be ported in an easy way, it needs .dll modifications, which i can not do at the moment.
    When i have the abilities, i'll try to implement it :).

    I first tried to add the riot police mod by the navy seal to my mod, but then i thought, that it would not make enough sense.
    I really want to add it, but i do not have enough ideas :(.

    But there are good graphics for these units here, so i use them.

    Can't be done atm, sorry :(.

    I agree with you with the second part, but i will not add something, which totally cripples the AI.

    Good suggestion :), but i can't see a good model atm here :(.



    Hover-Tanks are already in Mars Now, with the next patch they'll become real hovercrafts (means, they can't move on water atm, this will be changed).

    Sorry, i haven't ever heard these names, i can't connect them to any picture :(.

    When i see mechs, i think more of something like an exo-sceleton, so it makes more sense.

    My thoughts for this were, that it would be a good feature, that you could only built airunits, when terraforming reaches a certain level.
    But can't really be done :(.

    The question is: How to implement this?

    But when the suites are penetrated...

    You could wait until sunday, instead of doing it yourself, but go on :).
     
  10. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    Actually, biological agents or gas released into habitation domes would be quite effective.
     
  11. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Retired Moderator

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    At the moment, i'm reuploading my mod to atomicgamer, because filefront will close tomorrow.
    The re-upload will include patch C.
    Edit: Re-upload is done :).


    Patch C
    Includes patch A and B
    Will break savegames!
    Bugfixes:
    - Mutant promotion will now be displayed correctly
    - every resource has now also a water improvement
    - Genesis-Project and -projectiles do not destroy resources (other work here is in progress)
    - Trading over coast/ocean added
    - Radar stations can now be destroyed
    - Light Fighters can now intercept
    - All units are now displayed with correct group sizes
    - corrected the civic-prereqs for the golden shield (can now be build with tyranny or communism)
    - No additional maintenance for cities on other continents
    - some text fixes
    - 1 event changed, 1 quest deactivated
    - Nvidia-Video after intro film deactived

    Balancing:
    - Hover-Tank und Helicopters can now move on water
    - Light Attackship strength back from 3 to 4, but has now -25% city attack
    - XP-Maximum for mutants and barbarians is now the double (10 XP for mutants, 20 for barbarians)
    - Hover-Transporter doesn't upgrade to transporters
    - 2. tech-prereq for battle hover deleted
    - 2 :) through state religion instead of 1 :)
    - Costs for "Transformation" reduced by 25% (now 6000 hammers)
    - Changed the conditions for domination victory (more population, less land)

    Other things:
    - Background texts for "Data Security" (by Korahan) and for the unit "Colonist" (by Danieldej) added (translation by me)
    - Victory video for evolution victory added (video by arian)
    - Scaled the laser fences down
    - Now improvement "Aquatic Science Station", for the connection of all resources



    The 2 background texts (they are nice, so i post them here):

    Spoiler :
    Data Security

    The web doesn’t forget.
    Already in 1215 the church established the data security in the confessional secret.
    The data security came to global relevance through the development of digital technologies. The web, video control, mobil phones and electronic cash enabled near unlimited possibilities for data acquisition and their anaylsis at the end of the 20th century.
    Authorities and private companies had an active interest on the personal data of the citizens.
    Money transactions were monitored by the state to discover tax offenses or customer profiles were created by the companies for better marketing.

    With the establishment of the mars wide network and the database, which where created during the colonization, which described every little detail, the data security became to a disputed basis issue.
    Especially annoying for the martians were the near boundless use of their data for advertisement. Some billboards didn’t stop before the sexual transmitted diseases of their passangers and revealed them though the latest products of the pharma industry.

    “Data security instead of data use!“
    Through the return to the principles of data security the private sphere of the citizens was recovered. Also the corporations can research more free, without the fear, that their knowledge could be stolen by the rivals, or even confiscated by the nation.
    But through this restrictive system, the efficiency of the executive and the counterespionage is lowered.


    Colonist
    Since the beginning of mankind, the people stream away from their homeland to found settlements away in the foreign.
    Reasons for that are different, oppression in their native country, the will for expansion, economic reasons or the hope of a better life.
    Greece, Russia or Great Britain: All these world empires got power and wealth through their colonies.
    One thing all colonists have in common: Valor. Also the mars colonists are and strong willed, a foreign planet wakes the attraction and the spirit of adventure, and subpression and violence is also there on earth in the 22th century. Many troubles and dangers have to be overcome, and some will not survive them. But for many women and men the slogan is in this time: “Mars, now!”




    I agree, would be a real catastrophe.
     
  12. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    Great work there. Will check it out ASAP.:goodjob:

    EDIT: Auto-installer creates a new Civ4\BtS\Mods folder structure instead of installing to existing Sid Meier's Civ4\BtS\Mods if unchecked.
     
  13. War Chicken

    War Chicken Chieftain

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    Maybe thats because the MOD is developed in german.
    You'll have to adjust the path manually to your folder structure.
     
  14. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Retired Moderator

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    No, not really.
    I think, i forgot the "Sid Meier's" in the path, i'm sorry :blush:, i'll correct it tomorrow.
     
  15. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Retired Moderator

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    Thanks :).

    Also thanks to all others, who had nice things to say, and thanks to every downloader: :trophy: we've already passed the mark of 2000 downloads :).


    Is fixed now.
    I made a re-upload of patch C, because there was also an issue with one .xml, a ">" was missing in the Civ4GameText_Events_BtS.xml.
    If anyone has also the problem, here is the fixed file, or if you do not have the technical ability to find and replace it, here is also an executable file.
     
  16. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Retired Moderator

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    Damn, i included the original TechInfos.xml from BtS :blush:.

    Here's the file, which has to be replaced.
    For all people without the ability to do this, here's the .exe, which will also do it.
    This hotfix includes the file from the hotfix above.

    I've made a re-upload of patch c (again), and i hope this was the last mistake in my last patch :blush:.
     
  17. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    Oh dear, oh dear. (Got it!);)
     
  18. joeaverage

    joeaverage Chieftain

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    I've read through this thread - and the MOD sounds and looks amazing. :)

    I'm sorry if this has been, I must have missed it - but I can't seem to start a new game with a random map. Is that on purpose?
     
  19. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Retired Moderator

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    Thanks :).

    No, this should not be, there should be a random map.
    Is the normal "play now" button greyed out?
    And please look in your "marsjetzt-v02\privatemaps\" folder, and say me, if you see there a python file (.py).






    Progress is slow at the moment, and there will be no patch this weekend.
    There are no big bugs to fix, and all, what i want to add as new content, takes a bit longer :(.
    But i'll work on my mod :).
     
  20. Tholish

    Tholish Chieftain

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    While you're adding new content, maybe you could get more canyonlike canyons. I saw a graphic for this on the main news page and followed it, to find it was for Civ3. But the idea seems good to me, using flood plains for canyon art, though I don't know exactly how you would make it work.
     

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