BtS MTDG - Game Settings & Map

[azzaman333]

RE: Map Type.

Something with a "New World" continent would be good, and the rest of the map to be left to a map maker just makes it more interesting to explore.

Emperor seems like a good level to me.

 

[Kylearan]

Hi,

RE: Map Type.

Something with a "New World" continent would be good

I'm totally against a New World map. Most likely, the New World landmass won't make a difference - the game will basically be over already by the time we will be able to settle it. And it would also make the starting landmass smaller and more crowded.

Additionally, the Apolyton Demogame plays on the Terra mapscript (despite my objections ). While this affects only a few people (right now, mostly_harmless and myself as far as I can see), it would be boring for us to play the same map type again.

-Kylearan

 

[azzaman333]

Hi,


I'm totally against a New World map. Most likely, the New World landmass won't make a difference - the game will basically be over already by the time we will be able to settle it. And it would also make the starting landmass smaller and more crowded.

Additionally, the Apolyton Demogame plays on the Terra mapscript (despite my objections ). While this affects only a few people (right now, mostly_harmless and myself as far as I can see), it would be boring for us to play the same map type again.

-Kylearan

I'm not saying that there should be an old world, with all civs, but an unsettled continent out there which can't be reached til Optics/Astro.

 

[oyzar]

I'm not saying that there should be an old world, with all civs, but an unsettled continent out there which can't be reached til Optics/Astro.

Given that pre-optics contact have been put up as a requirement, having some unsettled land that is unreachable until astro does probably mean it won't matter much at all and it will make the initial starting positions smaller, no matter if it is one or several continent. The joy of discovery is not really worth it compared to what it does to gameplay...

 

[azzaman333]

Given that pre-optics contact have been put up as a requirement, having some unsettled land that is unreachable until astro does probably mean it won't matter much at all and it will make the initial starting positions smaller, no matter if it is one or several continent. The joy of discovery is not really worth it compared to what it does to gameplay...

Firstly, having an unsettled continent does not nessecarily make the starting positions smaller.
Secondly, I trust that Sullla would be able to give the continent a significance in the game.
Thirdly, how does having an unsettled, unreachable continent adversely affect gameplay?
Finally, who decided that pre-optics contact was a requirement? Shouldn't that be put to a vote from the teams? And what defines pre-optics contact? Galleys/Triremes able to reach all civs? Islands separated by single ocean tiles so civs can culture war over the seas? Able to contact other civs over 2 tile oceans?

 

[oyzar]

Pre-opics contact means just that, some way to contact everyone before optics, exactly how is up to the map maker...

I realize that it might not affect the starting position much, however there really isn't a way to make it affect the game much given the stage of the game that optics become accessible...

 

[azzaman333]

Oh, I can think of a couple of ways that such continent/s could greatly affect the world, a few clustered unique resources, the specific shape of the continents, the quality of terrain, whether you want to settle it or not, etc, as I doubt the game will have been decided one way or another at point based on previous MTDGs.

 

[Niklas]

Finally, who decided that pre-optics contact was a requirement? Shouldn't that be put to a vote from the teams? And what defines pre-optics contact? Galleys/Triremes able to reach all civs? Islands separated by single ocean tiles so civs can culture war over the seas? Able to contact other civs over 2 tile oceans?

There's no need to vote over every detail, if there is an obvious consensus then no need to question that. No one has spoken up against pre-optics contact, it's sort of a given for a game like this. We don't want to wait a RL year or more to be able to talk to some other team.

 

[azzaman333]

There's no need to vote over every detail, if there is an obvious consensus then no need to question that. No one has spoken up against pre-optics contact, it's sort of a given for a game like this. We don't want to wait a RL year or more to be able to talk to some other team.

In my opinion, pre-optics contact should be available with at least 1 civ, but apart from that there are no guarantees on what the map is going to be like. The less knowns about the map, the better.

 

[Kaleb]

Imo with tech trading things are going pretty fast on normal speed already, so i think diety without barbs would be best, but difficulty, barbs and huts kinda depend a bit on each other...

Huts and random events should be off. If we can tone down barbs then I would also like Deity to slow down tech development. I normally single on Epic but that's mainly to get more chance to use units before they become obsolete!

I've been playing Civ since it first came out, as well as Colonization, Call of Power and of course Alpha Centauri. So this means I am playing Civ for the last 17 years?! Man I am getting old...

Jeepers, me too. I remember the good old days of the Civ I demo and trying to see how far you could get before 1AD!

 

[oyzar]

I think huts and barbs should be off, while random events should be on, so basing a statement upon that doesn't really make sense. Higher difficulty means worse barbs, that is probably the highest effect if barbs are on (matters a lot more than higher maintenance and tech cost). You would not be able to change it without a mod.

 

[Kaleb]

I think huts and barbs should be off, while random events should be on, so basing a statement upon that doesn't really make sense. Higher difficulty means worse barbs, that is probably the highest effect if barbs are on (matters a lot more than higher maintenance and tech cost). You would not be able to change it without a mod.

Ok, I'm not too fussed about random events tbh, they are nice and don't make that big a difference. But barbs do and you are right, on Deity they are a BIG factor in the difficulty. So I'm happy with Deity+no barbs

Given that pre-optics contact have been put up as a requirement, having some unsettled land that is unreachable until astro does probably mean it won't matter much at all and it will make the initial starting positions smaller, no matter if it is one or several continent. The joy of discovery is not really worth it compared to what it does to gameplay...

It doesn't necessarily have to mean the starting positions are smaller, that depends on how much ocean you want and mapsize. Besides perhaps a smaller starting position may be better to have earlier contact (and conflict) but then having maybe a 'new world' or some uninhabited islands could be good.

In terms of map design - is it not possible for Sulla to stick some barb cities on the 'new world'. So there are no roving barbs but there are some barb settlements?? Just a thought, not sure if it's possible

 

[oyzar]

Ok, I'm not too fussed about random events tbh, they are nice and don't make that big a difference. But barbs do and you are right, on Deity they are a BIG factor in the difficulty. So I'm happy with Deity+no barbs

Good to hear someone agrees with me, now i just need to convince the other 70 people...

It doesn't necessarily have to mean the starting positions are smaller, that depends on how much ocean you want and mapsize. Besides perhaps a smaller starting position may be better to have earlier contact (and conflict) but then having maybe a 'new world' or some uninhabited islands could be good.

I belived the general thoughts went in direction since this is a game that is likely to span over several years people did not want to easily get eliminated early as such there shouldn't be too much possiblity of an early rush. The more cramped the map is, the less likely a new world is to matter btw(since the less land the earlier the game will be decided).

In terms of map design - is it not possible for Sulla to stick some barb cities on the 'new world'. So there are no roving barbs but there are some barb settlements?? Just a thought, not sure if it's possible

Might be possible, but then they'll act just as an AI you are always at war with, do we really want this? In an mp game the computer shouldn't really be a factor imo...

 

[Kaleb]

Good points. My only concern is that if there are no barbs and civs aren't going to be able to really engage with each other for a long while then there isn't going to be the need for any military for a long time! Perhaps this could be counter-balanced by creating a few barb cities and limiting barb activity to just those cities? Maybe those barb cities could be placed in strategic/awkward positions?

I still like the idea of there being some 'new world' as it adds an interesting dynamic to the game when Astronomy arrives, what do other people think?

 

[IamJohn]

Sorry, but I'm really uninterested by a terra map, we'll all kill each other (fast) if we are put together, and get really bored if we arn't. I've played terra maps and they just don't seem like a good idea for multiplayer...

 

[oyzar]

Sorry, but I'm really uninterested by a terra map, we'll all kill each other (fast) if we are put together, and get really bored if we arn't. I've played terra maps and they just don't seem like a good idea for multiplayer...

I don't think anyone were suggesting anything remotely resembling a terra map. I agree that they aren't very well fit for mp(i have played it). The idea is just to have some land out there that might not be reachable before astro. Normaly all you do when you get astro is the ability to raze cities at will anytime, anywhere, and the ability to discover wast oceans. Might be nice if there were some land out there in those oceans.

 

[Lord Parkin]

Is there a list somewhere of the options that have been decided upon?

 

[oyzar]

Is there a list somewhere of the options that have been decided upon?

Nope, because they haven't, the teams are voting on them now...

 

[Ginger_Ale]

Originally I posted this the poll results thread...

I think Sullla is going to collect the results from individual teams' forums, though we certainly can post the results here:

- Huts: On/Off
- Events: On/Off
- Vassal States: On/Off
- Barbarians: None, Normal, or Raging
- Tech Trading: Normal, No Tech Trading, No Tech Brokering
- Difficulty Level: Low (Noble/Prince), Medium (Monarch/Emperor), High (Immortal/Deity)

There's also a few map types (Wheel, Donut, Snaky Archipelago, Global Highlands, and Islands) to figure out.

 

[General_W]

ok - thanks Ginger_Ale.
I got ahead of myself there in the main thread. I'll update it to look like what Sulla Posted - and we'll just leave the map thing up to him to collect info from every team.