Ambreville
Deity
Well, you could give some light cavalry flanking instead
You could feed them spaghetti too.
[BTS] The History of Three Kingdoms
- Thread starter stmartin
- Start date
You could feed them spaghetti too.
By sniping you mean attack siege weapon first? That would be overpowered I think. To counter siege units, flanking damage is pretty good. Or make garrison archers able to bombard inside cities walls.
Is there any out of sync error messages poping up during play?
In any case, the information you provided is very valuable. The multiplayer issue is on the top of priority list right now.
Ambreville
Deity
AFAIK, the flanking promotion is described in the civilopedia as giving a +10% withdrawal chance. Does flanking actually cause damage to siege units when they are stacked with stronger units? Snipe is pretty good as it targets the weaker units in a stack, siege or otherwise.
Also, if you read my earlier post, I had suggested a condition that the attacker should have more cavalry than the defender in order for the sniping to be truly effective. I can see two ways this could actually work. It would requires the stack attacks option or defending light cavalry might also have the ability to counter snipe attacks.
Do you mean to say you think archers able to bombard troops inside a city is too powerful? It all depends how much bombard damage you assign to their attack (% and max limit). Besides, archer units with ranged bombardment (as I described them earlier) would only cause a certain amount of damage to troops, without affecting structures of fortification bonuses. What's overpowered with this???
@Ambreville
Surprise! By flanking damage we mean 'You cavalry has damaged enemy catapult by flanking damage'. Almost all mounted unit has this ability: when attack enemy stack, damage siege units in that stack too. It even can kill siege unit in this way.
By 'make garrison archers able to bombard inside cities wall', I don't mean it's overpowered. I mean in this way we will have a way to weaken enemy siege units by bombarding them from inside city. So giving snipe to light cavalry isn't really that necessary.
Surprise! By flanking damage we mean 'You cavalry has damaged enemy catapult by flanking damage'. Almost all mounted unit has this ability: when attack enemy stack, damage siege units in that stack too. It even can kill siege unit in this way.
By 'make garrison archers able to bombard inside cities wall', I don't mean it's overpowered. I mean in this way we will have a way to weaken enemy siege units by bombarding them from inside city. So giving snipe to light cavalry isn't really that necessary.
Ambreville
Deity
Cool beans! (How meaningful is the flanking damage to siege units compared with the risk to the attacking cavalry?)
Great! Would you actually allow ranged bombardment to kill off an enemy unit?
Either way, you could always use archer units in a city to weaken an adjacent enemy stack with their ranged bombardment, and then send out the cavalry to pick off the damaged siege units. It would make sense for light cavalry to have higher withdrawal rates for this to work. (*)
If the AI knows how to handle these tactics, it would be really awesome!
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Edit
(*) Shouldn't the presence of cavalry in the defending stack make it harder for enemy mounted units to score flanking damage on siege units?
Well, for flanking damage it only takes about 5 hits to kill every seige unit in the stack. If you hit it with a crossbow first, even less. The mounted unit has to survive combat to score flanking damage, so cavalry would make it less likely that damage is inflicted (by being the best open ground defender, not via any special mechanic). It's also why I recommended promoting down the flanking line, since it increases survival chance and therefore flanking damage.
The flanking damage was introduced in BtS though, but they didn't make a really good highlight of it given the role of cavalry in base CIV is that of the heavy shock troop.
The flanking damage was introduced in BtS though, but they didn't make a really good highlight of it given the role of cavalry in base CIV is that of the heavy shock troop.
I have had OOS in multiplayer after I had left the game running for a long time, but this was unrelated to the issue I described previously as far as I know.
Ambreville
Deity
I had a unit with ranged bombardment and noticed that it wiped out the defenders' fortify bonus while damaging the units as well. That can't be right, is it?
Are you sure? This is very unlikely.
Ambreville
Deity
In addition to this, I ran into the situation where normal bombardment (non-ranged) does not reduce fortification at all, depending on the level of fortification. The city has 275% fortification bonus, and I have 20+ ballistae and trebuchets ==> no effect!
Ambreville
Deity
Positive.
Is the city Chang An? Chang An can become impervious to bombardment if it builds the Stone Sentinel Maze (and up to Inner Walls) since bombardment damage seems to round. Perhaps it doesn't even need the SSM and just requires an Inner Walls to get to the invincibility point.
Ambreville
Deity
Nope, it's the Liu Biao city of Jiang Ling.
In general I noticed a certain trend of diminishing returns with siege units vs. fortifications. The higher the defense bonus, the less each individual siege unit seems to be able to reduce it. Is this intentional? I never noticed this outside of HotK.
Either way, there ought to be a minimum amount by which siege units can reduce a fortification bonus. It shouldn't be zero! This sort of mathematical escalation seems unwanted in that it only causes the game to drag on far longer than it should.
I was running Sun Ce and piled up a number of features in my capital to the build best, meanest ships I could think of. In the end I could churn a war galley per turn with 20+ XP. Added to this, I captured the nasty pirate dude early on, giving me an unbeatable fleet. A bit overpowered, hmmm?
Strange... the diminishing returns with seige weapons can be attributed to the -25% damage from bombardment each level off walls bring. Your ballistae have accuracy right?
As for the Sun Ce thing, the fleet is supposed to be your big defence... but of course what games are won by defense? (except cultural)
As for the Sun Ce thing, the fleet is supposed to be your big defence... but of course what games are won by defense? (except cultural)
Ambreville
Deity
Which promotion is accuracy (the one with the target-shaped symbol)? I have a great number of treb's and ballistae, all of which have decent promotions. You might want to tone down the bombardment penalty to -20% instead of -25% (??).
The "pirate-enhanced" fleet is very useful in offense is that it is great at extorting fortunes in the long run from its "victim". I pretty much brought both Liu Bei and Liu Biao to their knees by systematically sinking their fleets (and emptying their treasury) and blockading/pirating their ports. In turn the money received help finance wars and unit upgrades.
Also -- have you guys considered mechanics to hire mercenaries? Could be pretty useful for a cash rich/low population Civ. Some heroes migh specialize in leading mercs' too (if any of course).
I'm going back to the issue of walls and the protection they confer. What if you had a level of fortification (like "Imperial Towers" -- whatever) with an inherent ranged bombardment ability, or an automatic damage inflicted to adjacent enemy units? In the same vein, there could be a "Imperial Port" national wonder that could damage blockading ships within a certain range. Just a thought!
You know... the quest for the "most-mostest" goes on!
ahh, a reverse dread effect for cities? I'm not quite too sure on that since it would just lead to more micro during seiges (move within range, leave medic stack out of range), and if archers or crossbows were given ranged bombardment that would fill the gap. I think increased city defense would be best if you think that needs buffing.
