[BTS] The History of Three Kingdoms

[Kenjister]

@ Ambreville

There is a nice discussion on combined arms legions in the development forum, I don't have to time to link it right now, but I'm sure you'll find it quite interesting.
Also, the only reason you would really promote down two different combat types is so your hero has more versatility. Sometimes a lower level of melee is superior to a high level of cavalry.

 

[stmartin]

@StMartin

By the way, I couldn't locate the XML file that controls the actual names of the all these promotions. Which one is it please?

I stumbled through the descriptions of the Beliefs. Pardon me if I am misunderstanding that system, but it looked like they didn't do anything different. In other words, they all provide the same Prestige Bonus--no special effect that is unique for picking one Official State Belief vs. another. Was there one I missed?

It's in the xml file whose name ended with 'object', I believe, you can always do a 'search in files' to locate it. I recommend notepad++ to do the job. Also, different official belief has different government building, check out 'HoTK concept' in civilopedia.

Back to Commander Promotions. I understand the way commander levels work isn't a bug after all. Thanks for the explanation. This remains however somewhat confusing and annoying. It seems to me that if I have a hero with the ability to command three melee units, as an example, I would then never knowingly add an archer level, because then that Legion can either have three melee units OR one single archer! Looks like a waste of a promotion, I think. Why is there such a limitation? It seems to me that a Legion shouldn't necessarily be limited to a single type of unit--why not allow a Legion that has one archer, one melee, and one cavalry? Arguably, commanders are usually better at mastering the tactics of one single type of troop. If this is the reasoning behind the limitation, in that case I think you may need an extra promotion that allows a hero to command different types of units within the same Legion. Make sense?

Hey, a promotion which allow combined arm legion might actually work!

 

[Ambreville]

There is a nice discussion on combined arms legions in the development forum, I don't have to time to link it right now, but I'm sure you'll find it quite interesting.
Also, the only reason you would really promote down two different combat types is so your hero has more versatility. Sometimes a lower level of melee is superior to a high level of cavalry.

Didn't find it. The link would be nice, thank you.

Versatility is okay, however, one ends up with enough Heroes eventually that they themselves provide the versatility. The "fiddliness" of the commander levels, as the systems stands now, ends up creating more micromanagement for a limited benefit. If you only had two or three heroes, then yes, this sort of versatility would be useful. But in a game where I can end up with 20+ Heroes, there is no way I'd mess around with swapping units in "onesies" and "twosies."

 

[Ambreville]

It's in the xml file whose name ended with 'object', I believe, you can always do a 'search in files' to locate it. I recommend notepad++ to do the job.

Thanks!!

Also, different official belief has different government building, check out 'HoTK concept' in civilopedia.

I didn't see a difference. I'll check again.

Hey, a promotion which allow combined arm legion might actually work!

Good! That would be my first choice!

 

[Kenjister]

@ Ambreville
Sorry about not putting in the link earlier... I had just realized the time, so I basically posted and ran off to school. It's an old thread, but you may be interested in looking at the idea we bounce around in the first page or so. Perhaps you may want to revive it too.http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=331770


As for the discussion on versatility, I still don't know where to land. It would be nice to merge all the promote _____ promotions into one single "command" promotion to improve versatility of the heroes, but as it now, it's not really micromanagement unless your loosing your legions at an astounding rate (if that was the case you'ld probably be microing to save your empire anyways), and it prevents heroes from becoming too strong in all aspects. Currently in my games, my heroes tend to get all their useful promotions plus a few more, allowing me to imporve their other command levels.

 

[stmartin]

Cumulative Patch D is out! It's save game compatible, however, so finish the current game and then start a new one!

Download here:

http://sanguoforciv4.googlecode.com/files/HoTK_V2.4_Patch_D.exe

changelist:

0.287:
fix: in random maps newly found city will get corresponding regional city perk
rule change: hero maintenance halved

0.286:
text: revise promotion help text according to Ambrevile's suggestions

0.285:
rule change: recruit hero from hero advisor will not force refresh combat experience needed for next random hero, it will refresh after recruiting the next random hero(or a historical hero with half price)
Difficulty level below nobel will no longer enjoy research bonus
when legion hero or naked hero is defeated the hero will go to the nearest city instead of directly to the capital
fix: fix a bug when core troop is injured player can still dismiss legion
fix a bug when core troop is injured player can still change the legion's core troop in regroup legion interface
fix a bug sometimes when unit upgrades its experience will increase

0.284:
new content: added ability to rename random hero
interface: add leader portrait to the side of leader name on scoreboard
add leader and faction button to scoreboard hover help text
in plot list unit will now group according to legions first, and core troop always comes ahead of legion members

0.283:
new content: BUG Mod upgrades to 4.0
fix: fix a CTD when barbarian captures city with emperor
interface: in main interface plot unit help text will show hero's unit combat level on core troop as well
in main interface plot unit help hero's unit combat level will show all combat types instead of just those whose level is above 0
rule tweak: if you surround a core troop with runner promotion he cannot withdrawal anymore.

0.282:
fix several text error
adjust promotions for several heroes

 

[Ambreville]

in plot list unit will now group according to legions first, and core troop always comes ahead of legion members

This is very cool. It fixes the confusion issue I had with Legions.

I just ran patch D with an older saved game without any trouble. The Legions appear properly sorted out. That's awesome! Just one thing -- when mousing over the Legion units' icons, the row showing their promotions partly overlaps the line of text that follows underneath, the one displaying the name of the legion. Is it possible to add a bit more space to avoid that??

Many thanks for the fixes! Keep the good work coming!

--------------------------------------

EDIT #1

I noticed that the new promotions help text has a problem with punctuation (in particular hyphens and apostrophes). That's probably because I originally wrote that text on Word, which likes to replace ascii symbols with fanciers word-processor symbols that don't translate correctly in Civ's text files. Sorry 'bout that! These need to be replaced with the correct symbols.

--------------------------------------

EDIT #2

Here is a corrected xml file. I fixed the issues listed above, and a few others I had missed earlier. Didn't mess with the titles. . . honest. . .

The file needs to be renamed before using it (CIV4GameText_Sanguo_Help.XML)

I found one entry under "SHARP_SHOOTER" (whatever it's called in the game) that had part of its Chinese translation overwritten with English stuff. Must have happened last night when StMartin updated the file. Sorry, I didn't fix it since I do not speak Chinese.

 

[stmartin]

Cumulative Patch E is out, download here: http://sanguoforciv4.googlecode.com/files/HoTK_V2.4_Patch_E.exe

It fixed the religion screen bug, so that you can switch religions again.

Save game compatible.

@Ambreville

Just saw your recent edit when I have already uploaded the file

 

[Axis Kast]

For some reason, the new installer won't let me select a folder in which to drop the game. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[stmartin]

For some reason, the new installer won't let me select a folder in which to drop the game. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

The installer is the same as all previous versions. Is there any problem with previous version?

By default, the installer would automatically find the right position to put the mod, so you don't have to find it manually. The installer would require Beyond the Sword.exe to be present somewhere along the destination folder's path.

 

[Gicusan]

Playing The Little Conqueror bigg 196 map with last update but not last patch and it unfolds rather well.

Game is easy somehow on low and middle dificulty levels. So I went for Diety. It is probably imposible to do with most leaders. Sun Ce was down to 2 troops in the whole empire... I may have been able to pull it out in the end but a huge setback in research was waiting for me and most probably I was to lose to diplomatic victory if nothing else.

So restarted, left the debug open. Upped the cities to 5 and set a granary, a library a special lighthouse and a blacksmith in them. Also I added a few hills around my 4 cities. Set the 3 begining heroes to S level. Put on the map 2 unexperienced troops for each of the 3 heroes and an archer in each city. And that is all. I put a pass and debug was off.

Than it unfolded. Of course, I had a good advantage so I killed my first enemies fast. Not that fast as they had loads of troops but not so hard. Then the hell was there. They research like nuts and they play research diplo as tough as hell. It is almost imposible to get a tech from an AI unless with a very bad bargain. Basicaly almost everybody hates you more or less. Anyway, Killed all south-east, as I should have, Killed Liu Bei as he was annoyng (-8 just because we did not shere religion), Zang Ba also. Cao Cao did almost nothing but I gifted him a fie cities as I wanted him as a buffer for Yuan Shao - that one is a beast. Game unfolded and finaly Yuan Shao declares on Cao Cao who for some reason was fighting the remote Ma Teng. They were similar in strength but somehow Yuan Shao makes a splendid push. Probably because Cao troops were far away or Ai is just plain dumb at defending.

I said I am in trouble, Cao and Yuan Shao were voted for diplo victory (it seems being advanced in research puts Yuan Shao ahead of me despite the fact that he should not. And he was very close to victory. Anyway, Cao was my only friend, at least among the great powers, so I went to help him with my best stack. As usualy, AI took a horible beating from me but next turn both Liu Biao and Liu Zang declared on me together with their minions. At that moment and still now Liu Zang is the most advanced in the world and after the Yuan - Cao war, the strongest. Game says stronger than me but I somehow doubt it. He may have more troops but no way in hell he has my experience and promotions.

Anyway, reloaded and let Cao deal alone with Yuan Shao. And I started killing Liu Biao.
With my best cavalry heroes defending the central continent (Liu Bei, Yuan Shu and Zang Ba cities) I moved the cats and the rest of my troops for a blitzkieg against Liu Biao in the south. Due to cultural borders, it was not exactly a fast blitzkrieg but in the end both him and his vasal were dead with too many new sities threathened by Cao Cao's cultural borders.

So here I am, strongest in the land, huge and with the whole world but Li Jue and Han Sui, my vasals, hating me as much as they could. I do not know what kind of sex Liu Biao use to do to them but most have over -7 up to -12 hate towards me because of that war. It was unavoidable. Even Cao Cao, that should have loved my boots for the ass saving is hating me now. Yuan Shao is still ahead of me in the votes which is disturbing watching the map almost half covered in red and the huge diffrence in population. Disturbing and dangerous. Cao Cao is suicidal and for some reasons keeps proposing diplo win even if he only has 1-200 votes every time. By the way, in the end he did very good against Yuan Shao, despite the setback he killed back and now they are even in force again.


So I will go to kill Cao and get the hold of the emperor or that stupid punk will make me lose the game. Me tricks with Debug tool in the begining played well and I am still 10 researches behind at end game. I have about 30 heroes as I set on no death. Remember the excelent ships and use that splendid hero that was a pirate with hidden nationality promotion. The amount of mone and sea security you get with him are both huge. I do not know what would happen with my economy if he was not there. Going at 90% on diety all game and still being behind is not easy. I only built the neccesary buildings, nothing more as wealth from cities was vital. Anyway, I am in for a win as I will get the emperor in a few turns.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

It is possible in deity to get cultural victory without WB. Conquest is probably possible if you waited till the very end when the military techs all trickled in and have a large empire to start (the AI is terrible at war).

 

[Gicusan]

It is possible in deity to get cultural victory without WB. Conquest is probably possible if you waited till the very end when the military techs all trickled in and have a large empire to start (the AI is terrible at war).

screw cultural victory. who wants that? you do it once and that is enough. anyway, my way, with some small changes in the begining, expands into a terrible conquest game. I will probably end it by voting myself Emperor so I do not have to run all the map to get last cities but anyway.

 

[Ambreville]

screw cultural victory. who wants that? you do it once and that is enough. anyway, my way, with some small changes in the begining, expands into a terrible conquest game. I will probably end it by voting myself Emperor so I do not have to run all the map to get last cities but anyway.

As much as I hate to, I must agree with you on that one. Unfortunately, you can't win "politically" unless you're effectively dominating the game militarily. I guess that's one way to do it.

There ought to be a way to fix that. For example, what if you could convince another Civ to vote for you in the next few sessions? For example, what if I actually bought off someone with either military support, resources, techs (whatever)? What if I could force someone to vote for me, say during the next 100 Turns, as an earlier alternative to vassalization? There could be Random Events giving a player temporarily someone else's votes, like marriages, blackmail, kidnap, some question of honor, etc. The concept here is to make it possible to follow a different global strategy enabling victory by vote without necessarily becoming a military juggernaut.

 

[Gicusan]

But it is still fun to kill...

 

[Ambreville]

Of course it is.

 

[Gicusan]

Can you imagine Lu Bu or Sun Ce going for a cultural victory?

Anyway, it is much easier with Liu Bei than most others. The retaining culture in the new villas is gold. All that while no rebelion... Also, more of the people that you need to like you, like you. As on of the other great powers, the only ones that can like you are the big rivals and they won't anyway.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

That is why we need UHVs a la RFC, to avoid a Lu Bu cultural victory or using WB to buff starting units and cities. Even then little civs can win. (and yes, I've won cultural victories for almost everybody except Han Sui and Shan Yue)

 

[darkedone02]

hey, i was wondering... is it possible for you to make an unlock system similar to how dynasty warriors did that you have to play one of the characters and play thought the scenarios to unlock the other characters? Since your doing the scenarios project on your mod, it will also be nice if you can do something like what KOEI did to Dynasty Warriors, and that is to lock all of the other civilizations in your games, and unlock cao cao, lui bei, and whoever the other guy is. IF we have beaten that empire in that scenario, that civilization is now unlocked and playable as well for both free play and custom free play.

it's like you take the whole of the civilization races, some features, and what not (for example, i cannot unlock the standard size map until I've beaten "x" scenario or have played and beaten the small size map 15 times in any races.) This will make your game more fun and to those who with to pursue to unlock every single race, feature, and whatnot. I don't know if this be possible but it will be nice if you can make the unlock system like this. like I can't play as yuan shao unless I've beaten him in one of the scenarios, then i can play him in the play now!, custom game, and one of the scenarios.

 

[Kenjister]

hmm, the unlocking things idea really reminded me of FfH's scenario line. Basically they have scenario's that can only be played if the previous one had been completed. Each scenario also has some special rule change (done by having a hidden game option turned on). Perhaps a historical campaign could be created for some civs? Events and choices also carry over from scenario to scenario that can make for some really cool play in HoTK, such as having a hero death carry over from scenario to scenario along with hero experience.