Buce 02 - The Son's Of Ghengis Khan

[Bucephalus]

I'm thinkng that maybe with so much land, we can afford to give our core a little more room with a CxxxC spacing. There are a lot of BG's around, and some size 12 cities would be shield-rich powerhouses, something we'd be glad of once the fighting starts.

We could switch to CxxC in the second and third ring and then go with ICS for specialist farms since we are surely likely to play this as a Monarchy.

I did consider trying to play it as a Republic; I think we could have avoided WW if we'd been blessed with a few lux's, by switching wars often, but I think without we'll them be fighting a losing battle.

I'll put a dotmap together sometime today, with my suggestions.

Any comments need to come today if Norton isn't going to be held up too much.

 

[Phaedo]

I agree with wider spacing but I still like the forest for the river and cow. I'll try to put together a dot map now

 

[Phaedo]

So I started planning all these cities and then realized that we can only really plan 5 before war. I've left the blue and green open as I'm not too sure about them. The Red and Yellow are big potential produces and leave the cap as a big producer as well. They are both on a river and will both be strong. I like the green but it is so far from the core that I have strategic concerns but it will get 3 BGs without sharing and get some river forests as well. I'd say green first and then possibly blue (there is space in the NW for a good city as well and a great spot in the SE). I'd just like to see that 5th city placed behind us rather than in front of us.

Spoiler :

Going from our experience in slavemaster, we will be struggling to improve our land throughout. Should we make sure our 4 cities are well improved before going to war? We have so much space that there isn't pressure to start the wars early but the other Civs have space as well but neither of the two we have met are agricultural so maybe we can focus on getting our production up a bit before triggering the second set of conditions.

 

[Bucephalus]

I think that is taking wide spacing way too far - there are far too many tiles that will never be worked.

Give me an hour or so and I'll put a dotmap of my own together.

 

[Phaedo]

The red is CxxC and the Yellow is CxxxC. Granted the green and blue are questionable, I was just going for max productive ability. I'd give up on the green and blue easily enough. I do like the red and yellow though.

 

[Bucephalus]

The red is CxxC and the Yellow is CxxxC. Granted the green and blue are questionable, I was just going for max productive ability. I'd give up on the green and blue easily enough. I do like the red and yellow though.

It's the green that bothers me most - it's CxxxxC from one and CxxxxxC from another; and I'd prefer to see red 1SE (on the hill), giving CxxxC and picking up the 2 extra riverside BG's.

 

[Phaedo]

Hmmm.... I don't see how the hill would give us 2 more riverside BGs (S and SW of the mountain are regular grass) but I'll wait four your map

 

[Bucephalus]

Hmmm.... I don't see how the hill would give us 2 more riverside BGs (S and SW of the mountain are regular grass) but I'll wait four your map

The two to the SE come in to play.

 

[Bucephalus]

Spoiler :

I think I must be due a visit to my optician - what I saw as BG's were indeed plain grass; nontheless, I still prefer it for the extra room it gives K'korum.

 

[Phaedo]

I still like the forest for red. Here's a revised one with pink being placed when we are ready to declare war. They all have potential to reach size 12 and are basically CxxxC (except red). It makes those four cities big -time producers. i do see why Buce likes the CxxxC for red though. It does make a CxxC gap for the next ring a bit easier but I think it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. For me, the main thing is that we will only get production out of 4 cities before we go to war so it is the first four that need to be the big boys. The fifth won't come online until after the first war and we are into our alternating war.

Spoiler :

 

[Bucephalus]

I like your revised map, with the exception of the Red Dot; placed that close to K'korum will prevent K'k making size 12.

The rest I could live with.

 

[CivActuary]

How much emphasis should we give to a city on the coast though - to get boats out? If that's the 5th city we plop down and are going to wait a while until we settle it, we're going to be a long time without boats. I forget - what type on landmass are we on?

When we build the 5th city we have to declare on a neighbor, but those neighbors are so far away it is likely to be more of a phony war than not, even though the variant requires otherwise. Does that mean we need to send out a war party, or wait for them to come to us?

Since they are so far away, it's going to make getting slaves back difficult. We should really make a point on looking for them in trade.

Edit: I like that map too, Phaedo, but I also think I would put red dot on the hill - as long as it is truly adjacent to that river. I've seen maps play tricks on my eyes, especially near the start of a river/mountain where it looked like it would be next to fresh water but it was not. Should be easy to check, but I'm at work, of course.

 

[Bucephalus]

How much emphasis should we give to a city on the coast though - to get boats out? If that's the 5th city we plop down and are going to wait a while until we settle it, we're going to be a long time without boats. I forget - what type on landmass are we on?

We're on continents; we need to make contacts not only for trade but also to have someone to war against once China and Russia are finished.

When we build the 5th city we have to declare on a neighbor, but those neighbors are so far away it is likely to be more of a phony war than not, even though the variant requires otherwise. Does that mean we need to send out a war party, or wait for them to come to us?

Phoney wars are not allowed; however we can only do what we can, send a stack and raze a few cities for tech - conquest can wait.

Since they are so far away, it's going to make getting slaves back difficult. We should really make a point on looking for them in trade.

Absolutely, if nothing else it slows down the AI.

 

[Phaedo]

The cap can make size 12 without even touching red's tiles, look.

Spoiler :

There are lots of options to trade tiles to maximize. The coastal city will have to be a commerce city anyway so no loss in giving 2 of its tiles away.

 

[Bucephalus]

The cap can make size 12 without even touching red's tiles, look.

There are lots of options to trade tiles to maximize. The coastal city will have to be a commerce city anyway so no loss in giving 2 of its tiles away.

It can only do by taking tiles from the 'coastal' city, which would otherwise have access to eleven land tiles - hardly a 'commerce only' city.

My reasons for wanting a wider spacing is so that we can have a core that will produce 2-turn swords - 2 turn MI's in K'korum - which would be huge IMO.

 

[Bucephalus]

Something that we haven't yet discussed is tech priority - which do we need first/most?

I would say military techs (BW, IW, Wheel, HBR, Maths) and the route to Monarchy.

 

[Norton II]

My thoughts on the cow city: the forest is adjacent to the river, while the hill is not. If we built the city on the hill, we'd need an aqueduct. I'd rather spend the 100 shields on something else, so I vote for the forest. If we want blue to get as many land tiles as possible, we can just take tiles away from another city and give them to Karakorum.

I agree with Buce about techs, and given the lack of luxes, monarchy's probably the way to go.

I can play tonight if there's a consensus about the cow city.

 

[Bucephalus]

My thoughts on the cow city: the forest is adjacent to the river, while the hill is not. If we built the city on the hill, we'd need an aqueduct. I'd rather spend the 100 shields on something else, so I vote for the forest. If we want blue to get as many land tiles as possible, we can just take tiles away from another city and give them to Karakorum.

I agree with Buce about techs, and given the lack of luxes, monarchy's probably the way to go.

I can play tonight if there's a consensus about the cow city.

But the whole point of having a wider spacing in the core is so we don't have to take tiles from another city.

If we were more crowded I'd be in agreement, but we have the room for a really powerful core.

I think a hundred shields for a duct is a fair swap for three more tiles; how many shields will those tiles give in the course of the game?

As far as Monarchy is concerned, it's not just a question of luxuries (or their lack thereof) but also one of unit support; with China and Russia so far apart we will need two task forces - it just wouldn't be practical to switch from one conflict to another otherwise.

 

[CivActuary]

I was afraid that the hill was not on the river. I'm leaning toward the forest now.

Question. What are our goals for red dot after war starts? It seems to me that we will still need some sort of settler production, and red dot seems to be the only place with a food bonus. Will we be letting it grow enough to *have* to share tiles with the capital?

 

[Norton II]

Here's what I meant earlier:

Spoiler :

Even with Red Dot on the forest, every city in our core can work 12 tiles easily, and Blue Dot can work all land tiles in its radius. If I'm looking at this right, even the cities in the next ring should be able to work 12 tiles, or close to it (no fewer than 9). If we settle a 6th city on Buce's yellow dot, we can move 1,5, and 7 elsewhere if need be.

Looks like it'll be tomorrow anyway--I ended up taking a long nap earlier.