Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Ok, still no word from CivA, so I'll call a skip.
Can you take it, Othniel?
Can you take it, Othniel?
Buce 02 - The Son's Of Ghengis Khan
- Thread starter Bucephalus
- Start date
Elephantium
Trampling the AI
Looks like I'll be up soon, but I'm also up in CBob03 again. I might need a swap or a skip for this round.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
OK, let's see what Othniel says, and take it from there.
Othniel
fighting for Achsah
Yep, I can take the game. I'll try to play tonight or tomorrow, so there's plenty of time to post any game thoughts floating out.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
It may have passed you by in the turnlog, but we are at war with Persia.
It's possible that they might land the odd unit on the NE coast, so it would be wise to keep a couple of Horses up there.
We have three Armies now, so there will be options if we get another MGL, one of which is the FP (I think); can we build 'The Pentagon' before MT?
It's possible that they might land the odd unit on the NE coast, so it would be wise to keep a couple of Horses up there.
We have three Armies now, so there will be options if we get another MGL, one of which is the FP (I think); can we build 'The Pentagon' before MT?
lurker's comment: I believe that you can. I think it only requires 3 armies in the field. I seem to recall building it very early (pre-MT) once. Just be careful not to lose one of your armies. I seem to recall a very ugly experience with that one once, too.
Othniel
fighting for Achsah
Yeah, I need to re-read the last log before I play this thing.
IIRC, our main target now is Cathy and if/when we can boot Mao, we'll get the war on with him again. Buce said:
Yes, we can build the Pentagon before MT. The only drawback is we won't be able to ship around any 4-unit armies prior to transports. That said, armies with 4-units are so much more powerful and generally worth the non-transport thing, IMO, especially with early armies like swords which will be obsolete later on.
I generally like to hand-build the FP and use leaders elsewhere, but normally I start the FP a lot earlier in the game. In our case,
, maybe using a leader for the FP would be good. We do have the Epic, right?
Edit: x-post with Aabrax
Othniel
fighting for Achsah
After a quick read through the last pages of this thread...
So, it seems I need to actually make the peace deal with Mao. Phaedo suggest killing the settler pair first, which I'll do ASAP and then sign the deal.
So, it seems I need to actually make the peace deal with Mao. Phaedo suggest killing the settler pair first, which I'll do ASAP and then sign the deal.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Yeah, I think that once we have our continent, the game is ours, and 4-unit Armies will go a long way to ensuring that happens.
I generally like to hand-build the FP and use leaders elsewhere, but normally I start the FP a lot earlier in the game. In our case,
Since this will play out pretty much like AW, I think we'll see more leaders yet.
The FP may not be much help yet, so HE or Pentagon would probably be a better use of a MGL.
Ultimately, you'll be in the chair if it happens, so use your best judgement.
I think not.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Just remember that the rules state that we must always be in a meaningful war, so Persia doesn't count.
We are doing pretty well for Slaves, so if you think any cities are worth keeping, that's cool.
Othniel
fighting for Achsah
Yeah, I'll do a quick CAII analysis of the benefit of an FP. Because we don't have many cities, like you said it probably won't be that huge.
I'm thinking the Epic would be real nice to build, but maybe we could hand-build it and the FP unless we get a spate of leaders. I think the Pentagon is 100-200 shields more expensive and so would be better from a sheer cost standpoint. The Epic is pretty cheap to build, I think...200 shields?
To add to my earlier game plan thoughts, I'll plan on booting Cathy right away. I'll demand something outrageous to get her good and huffy first.
EDIT: We're cross-posting like mad, Buce.
Yep, I intend to make a very meaningful war with Cathy... 
I'm thinking the Epic would be real nice to build, but maybe we could hand-build it and the FP unless we get a spate of leaders. I think the Pentagon is 100-200 shields more expensive and so would be better from a sheer cost standpoint. The Epic is pretty cheap to build, I think...200 shields?
To add to my earlier game plan thoughts, I'll plan on booting Cathy right away. I'll demand something outrageous to get her good and huffy first.
EDIT: We're cross-posting like mad, Buce.
Yep, I intend to make a very meaningful war with Cathy...
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Yep, I intend to make a very meaningful war with Cathy...
A man after my own heart!
Let me just remind you of another rule, though; if we lose a city, we can never give peace to the offending civ.
Good luck.
Othniel
fighting for Achsah
I'm through turn 5 of my set. I can't play anymore tonight so I'll post an update for now. I'm very happy to finish out my set but I won't be able to do so until Saturday sometime at the earliest. If the team is willing to wait, cool, but if someone wants to grab the save, I won't mind. Without further ado...
Summary so far:
- Made peace with China and got Russia to declare on us
- Reached the Middle Ages with the techs from the Chinese peace deal
- Got 3 MGL's so far! My leader luck has been incredible.
- Rushed the Epic and the Pentagon
- Have a leader in place to rush the FP next turn if we so choose
- Egypt signed an MA with Russia so we're at war with them too
Things have been going very well against Russia. I've killed a lot of units at minimal losses and we have our armies closing in on Bryansk. Obviously popping all those leaders has been great.
Main things for team to discuss:
- Placement of the FP.
- Buying Republic or Engineering
Regarding the FP, I have the leader in Darhan ready to rush it but have held off for now. I think Darhan is as good as spot as any but I'm open to suggestions.
We can buy Engineering or Republic with our gpt. I don't think Engineering is worth it at the moment although we do have a lot of rivers slowing down our movement. Republic is another matter, and we're at a place where revolting wouldn't be too bad. We can get Republic from China for most of our gold, but it's possible we could get the gpt back by enticing China to declare war on us again, perhaps with a timely boot. At the same time, we can probably get Republic in a peace deal, so I can see strong arguments for waiting. We can't trade for Feudalism at all at the moment.
<<Here's>> the Save.
Turnlog:
No pics for now
Summary so far:
- Made peace with China and got Russia to declare on us
- Reached the Middle Ages with the techs from the Chinese peace deal
- Got 3 MGL's so far! My leader luck has been incredible.
- Rushed the Epic and the Pentagon
- Have a leader in place to rush the FP next turn if we so choose
- Egypt signed an MA with Russia so we're at war with them too
Things have been going very well against Russia. I've killed a lot of units at minimal losses and we have our armies closing in on Bryansk. Obviously popping all those leaders has been great.
Main things for team to discuss:
- Placement of the FP.
- Buying Republic or Engineering
Regarding the FP, I have the leader in Darhan ready to rush it but have held off for now. I think Darhan is as good as spot as any but I'm open to suggestions.
We can buy Engineering or Republic with our gpt. I don't think Engineering is worth it at the moment although we do have a lot of rivers slowing down our movement. Republic is another matter, and we're at a place where revolting wouldn't be too bad. We can get Republic from China for most of our gold, but it's possible we could get the gpt back by enticing China to declare war on us again, perhaps with a timely boot. At the same time, we can probably get Republic in a peace deal, so I can see strong arguments for waiting. We can't trade for Feudalism at all at the moment.
<<Here's>> the Save.
Turnlog:
Spoiler :
[5-2]No pics for now
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Just the MGL's, then? Oh well, I guess it'll have to do...
OK, that's game winning kind of luck - nice work there, Othniel.
You did make one mistake, unfortunately; it's probably my fault, as I should have briefed you a bit more, but we had discussed the government issue at an early stage, and decided to play this as a Monarchy. It wasn't so much that we couldn't play it as a Republic, it was more a need for historical accuracy.
This variant is all about playing the Mongol way, and Ghengis Khan didn't require a Senate's approval for any of his decisions, neither did his people ever weary of war - they relshed it. Although, strictly speaking he wasn't a Monarch, in Civ terms it is probably the most compatable govt.
But no big deal - we'll just pick it up when Cathy cries, "enough!".
By all means finish the set. We're in no hurry, and Tusker has already said he's tied up for a few days. Also it will give us a chance to make a decision on FP placement.
As far as buying techs, my initial instinct is to say not. We are clearly in the military ascendency, and will coninue to pick up techs for peace for some time yet. That said, I'd like to see us pick up Enginering (along with Monarchy) when Cathy comes crawling, so keep up the tempo there. Trebs are a good bit better than Cats, particularly once we are facing Muskets, and with the money we are saving we should be able to upgrade our Cats rather than building Trebs from scratch.
I'll probably have more to add once I've seen the save, but again, nice work.
OK, that's game winning kind of luck - nice work there, Othniel.
You did make one mistake, unfortunately; it's probably my fault, as I should have briefed you a bit more, but we had discussed the government issue at an early stage, and decided to play this as a Monarchy. It wasn't so much that we couldn't play it as a Republic, it was more a need for historical accuracy.
This variant is all about playing the Mongol way, and Ghengis Khan didn't require a Senate's approval for any of his decisions, neither did his people ever weary of war - they relshed it. Although, strictly speaking he wasn't a Monarch, in Civ terms it is probably the most compatable govt.
But no big deal - we'll just pick it up when Cathy cries, "enough!".
By all means finish the set. We're in no hurry, and Tusker has already said he's tied up for a few days. Also it will give us a chance to make a decision on FP placement.
As far as buying techs, my initial instinct is to say not. We are clearly in the military ascendency, and will coninue to pick up techs for peace for some time yet. That said, I'd like to see us pick up Enginering (along with Monarchy) when Cathy comes crawling, so keep up the tempo there. Trebs are a good bit better than Cats, particularly once we are facing Muskets, and with the money we are saving we should be able to upgrade our Cats rather than building Trebs from scratch.
I'll probably have more to add once I've seen the save, but again, nice work.
Othniel
fighting for Achsah
Bummer about the monarchy thing but oh well. I could have grabbed Monarchy when I signed the peace, but took that junk town instead hoping to hit it big. 
Well, that aside, we should thinking about when we want to revolt, assuming we can extort Monarchy out of Cathy when we sign peace.
Well, that aside, we should thinking about when we want to revolt, assuming we can extort Monarchy out of Cathy when we sign peace.
Phaedo
Emperor
I'm sure we can get Monarchy out of Cathy with proper persuasion 
. My question is a bit bigger. What's the strategy for the continent? I think that we are using Mao and Cathy to research for us so we don't really want to get rid of them until we have nothing to gain from them. We can't really get rid of them until we can effectively mount an overseas invasion as per the rules anyway. So what's the plan? We have at least one more useful war with Mao before we have to push past the choke point. I think we should allow Cathy to keep her core for a while and focus on populating the rest of the continent.
We need to have enough cash to buy advanced techs and take advantage of discrepancies. This won't happen until we have the FP and a bunch of farms. Until that time, Cathy and Mao are our best bet to keep up with research. The scattered towns to the south will give us a chance to extort oversea Civs but those are a few one-offs. I guess I feel that we are in a commanding position militarily so it's a matter of going step by step and timing our complete control of the continent when we are in a position to send troop over the seas.
As for the FP, I don't mind using a leader for it as I expect we will be seeing quite a few more. CAII should tell us how valuable the FP would be for us now (if it improves things significantly now, it will be that much more once we have a King and I'd rather inherit a fully functional economy once our people realize that a monarch is the proper ordering of our empire). As for the location, I like Darhan because of the gold and river access. It has enough shields to be useful and is appropriately placed. I haven't checked the save yet to know what CAII will say , but I expect that we could use a few more cities before we absolutely need it. Having said that, the sooner the better IMO. With our armies and productive capacity, we are pretty much good militarily until the others get Cavs so the big challenge is the economy. The faster we get rich, the faster we give the Kahn legacy its proper place in History. Gold equals a bigger army and the ability to free our technological gains from war goals. Once we get the economy up and running, it is basically a tactical game. I think there is a chance that we could take this before the Modern Age give how close the continents must be
.
. My question is a bit bigger. What's the strategy for the continent? I think that we are using Mao and Cathy to research for us so we don't really want to get rid of them until we have nothing to gain from them. We can't really get rid of them until we can effectively mount an overseas invasion as per the rules anyway. So what's the plan? We have at least one more useful war with Mao before we have to push past the choke point. I think we should allow Cathy to keep her core for a while and focus on populating the rest of the continent. We need to have enough cash to buy advanced techs and take advantage of discrepancies. This won't happen until we have the FP and a bunch of farms. Until that time, Cathy and Mao are our best bet to keep up with research. The scattered towns to the south will give us a chance to extort oversea Civs but those are a few one-offs. I guess I feel that we are in a commanding position militarily so it's a matter of going step by step and timing our complete control of the continent when we are in a position to send troop over the seas.
As for the FP, I don't mind using a leader for it as I expect we will be seeing quite a few more. CAII should tell us how valuable the FP would be for us now (if it improves things significantly now, it will be that much more once we have a King and I'd rather inherit a fully functional economy once our people realize that a monarch is the proper ordering of our empire). As for the location, I like Darhan because of the gold and river access. It has enough shields to be useful and is appropriately placed. I haven't checked the save yet to know what CAII will say , but I expect that we could use a few more cities before we absolutely need it. Having said that, the sooner the better IMO. With our armies and productive capacity, we are pretty much good militarily until the others get Cavs so the big challenge is the economy. The faster we get rich, the faster we give the Kahn legacy its proper place in History. Gold equals a bigger army and the ability to free our technological gains from war goals. Once we get the economy up and running, it is basically a tactical game. I think there is a chance that we could take this before the Modern Age give how close the continents must be
.
Phaedo
Emperor
I realized after I posted that I wasn't clear about the farm point.
I know farms aren't effective until we get rails but the extra cities can reduce unit cost to nil and if we place cities with farms in mind, we will soon be rich once rails come in as the farm cities will be at the appropriate pop to make them work. Let's forget about 'ducts and plan for pop 5 or 6 depending on the terrain (river cities excluded of course). Overseas, we just raze everything and ferry any excess slaves back so we can join extinct slaves to cities to max them out. With no UU, we should have enough free gold to effectively trade to par and we can use peace to extort cash rather than tech.
I know farms aren't effective until we get rails but the extra cities can reduce unit cost to nil and if we place cities with farms in mind, we will soon be rich once rails come in as the farm cities will be at the appropriate pop to make them work. Let's forget about 'ducts and plan for pop 5 or 6 depending on the terrain (river cities excluded of course). Overseas, we just raze everything and ferry any excess slaves back so we can join extinct slaves to cities to max them out. With no UU, we should have enough free gold to effectively trade to par and we can use peace to extort cash rather than tech.
Elephantium
Trampling the AI
Err, what does our UU have to do with free gold?
Did you mean war weariness?Edit: I didn't realize until just now that I'm now up. Got it, I'll post a preturn (and play if it seems straightforward) tomorrow.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Steady on, young Tusker, Othniel has five more turns to play yet.
Elephantium
Trampling the AI
Oh, right 
I'll wait until Othniel posts the rest of his set
I'll wait until Othniel posts the rest of his set
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