Buce01: The Slavemaster

[Bucephalus]

@Elephantium: I assume were going to get in a tussle with Hiawatha sooner or later. Their's no way Shaka will leave them alone. I'm too.... Altruistic to a avoid umm.. sheltering them under our wing. Yes that's right, sheltering.

@Bucephalus:I never suggested peace with Shaka. Our only deal involving multiple techs is with Arabia.

My remark was aimed at Tusker; his post originally suggested that, then was edited.

 

[Bucephalus]

I favor the following approach for the tech trade: The Hittites will trade Chemistry, 730 gold, and 21 gpt. Chemistry+Banking can be traded with Arabia for Astronomy and Music Theory, plus whatever gold we can get. WE trade Theology to Babylon for Monarchy, 17 gold, and 4gpt. That puts us on tech parity with everyone.

We don't need or want Music Theory, IMO.

I would trade thus:

Hittites pay 730g + 21gpt for Banking;

We buy Astronomy from Arabia for Banking + 720g;

We sell Astronomy to Hittites for 39gpt;

We sell Chemistry to Arabia for 740g + 8gpt.

Net gain of 750g + 68gpt.

If you want to get Monarchy (personally, I can't ever seeing us needing it), it is available from either Babylon or Dutch for any obsolete tech.

I would also suggest that we switch research to Metalurgy (6 turns at 100&#37 - I wouldn't want to be second to MT behind the Zulu.

 

[Elephantium]

My remark was aimed at Tusker; his post originally suggested that, then was edited.

Heh. I realized after posting that we had several turns left on MAs against Shaka, so signing peace right now would be a bad idea.

 

[Miles Teg]

Good point about Music Theory. The only point I'm wondering about is where we got Chemistry from in your trading plan.

Here's a slightly modified plan:
Trade Banking to the Hittites for Chemistry, 730 gold + 2gpt.

Trade Banking & Chemistry to Abu Bakr for 20 gold, 8gpt, Astronomy & Monarchy.

Trade Astronomy to Mursilis for 39gtp, 3 gold.

This really doesn't change anything besides piggybacking Monarchy onto our deal with Arabia.

My main two arguments for getting Monarchy are A: There is a small chance we will run into a island scientific civ stuck in the AA. B: Mostly I don't want to look at civassist giving me "updates" on the fact that it's available.

I agree with you on the Metallurgy thing. In addition it might be a good idea to build some knights for upgrade purposes.

 

[Bucephalus]

Heh. I realized after posting that we had several turns left on MAs against Shaka, so signing peace right now would be a bad idea.

No worries; we posted almost simultaneously, so by the time I'd replied it wasn't there any more - I thought I'd imagined it.

 

[Bucephalus]

The only point I'm wondering about is where we got Chemistry from in your trading plan.

Same place as you did - I just neglected to mention it.

 

[CivActuary]

Trade Banking & Chemistry to Abu Bakr for 20 gold, 8gpt, Astronomy & Monarchy.

This really doesn't change anything besides piggybacking Monarchy onto our deal with Arabia.

My main two arguments for getting Monarchy are A: There is a small chance we will run into a island scientific civ stuck in the AA. B: Mostly I don't want to look at civassist giving me "updates" on the fact that it's available.

Would the Arabs give more gp or gpt in lieu of Monarchy?

 

[Miles Teg]

Would the Arabs give more gp or gpt in lieu of Monarchy?

Not unless they discover alchemy. Thats their entire treasury and income.

 

[CivActuary]

Not unless they discover alchemy. Thats their entire treasury and income.

Now there's something that I could use...

 

[Bucephalus]

Miles: it's unclear to me whether you have just paused for discussion or finished 2 turns early for the same reason. Can you clarify?

 

[Miles Teg]

Just paused. I'll play the next two tonight. I was mostly waiting for someone to break the deadlock on that new town.

 

[Bucephalus]

Apologies, that one seems to have slipped by us; I'm not at a Civ enabled PC ATM so unless anyone else can get to it soon, you'll have to make it your call.

Edit:

I've managed to drag my daughter off the Civ PC for a minute, but it doesn't break the deadlock, I'm afraid; I disagree with you and Tusker.

I would put it 1 SE, maintaining a CxxC pattern that far from the capital and allowing it to share those soon-to-be-mined BG's with Ellipi.

 

[CivActuary]

I'm at work right now, but if you or someone else can post a screenie of the settler's position I can remember my thoughts on the matter.

 

[Bucephalus]

Here it is:

Spoiler :

 

[CivActuary]

Just so none of us have the same answer...

What about 1E on that gold hill no city is currently able to work? That is CxxC from both Megara and Artemesium, and allows space for settling another city 3 tiles away from both the new city and Ellipi (encroaches on the Babs but at this point who cares about them.)

Failing that I'd go with Buce's position of 1SE to keep a tighter spacing.

 

[Phaedo]

Personally, I have thought about the 1SE spot for a while. It's not too far away from the cap to be completely corrupt so I'd like to keep the gold workable rather than building on it. CivA's choice would be my second pick for spacing purposes. We can squeeze another one in 1 SW of the Mountain by Eridu if we like as well.

 

[Bucephalus]

Hmm. I've actually been pursuaded by CivA - building on the gold hill makes better use of the land IMO, and allows a second city where he indicates with the blue dot, too.

One thing that we do agree on is that it shouldn't go where it is or NW, so it looks like a toss-up beteen the hills.

@Tusker: any thoughts on that to make things a bit clearer for Miles?

@Miles: you may have to make the final decision here, but I think it's clear that we are choosing between 1SE or 1E.

 

[Miles Teg]

I've looked it over and 1E looks like the way to me. We're not going to see much of that gold whether we settle on it or not.

 

[Elephantium]

I'm loathe to give up the gold from that hill, but MT has a good point - corruption in that town will eat most of the gold from the hill, anyway.

I'd be happy with 1SW of the gold and okay with settling on the gold.

 

[Miles Teg]

Turn8:
Trade Mursilis Banking for Chemistry, 730 gold, 21 gpt
Trade Abu Bakr Banking and Chemistry for Astronomy, Monarchy, 20 gold, and 8gpt
Trade Mursilis Astronomy for 39gpt
I decide to move our settler on to the goldhill. I think the gold would be corrupted if we let it alone anyways.
Begin research on Metallurgy, with a 39 gpt loss.

Inter-Turn:
Iroquois longbow kills a Nippur defender
Sparta: Settler - > Settler (4)
Thermoplyae: University - > Knight (5)
Eretia: Library - > Courthouse (10)
The people love us, I order them to build a higher roof!

Turn9:
The Iroquois are really freaking me out. Their most likely headed towards Babylon, but I don't like troops in our heartland, especially not when I'm using our soldiers to form a blockade.
Appolonia founded on the goldhill

Interturn:
Babylonian galley defeats Iroquois galley.
Another bloody Zulu caravel shows up, this one to the west as well as a galley off of Syacruse. This has got to be the oddest war I've ever fought. I mean the entire strategy I'm using revolves around combat workers and non-fighting infantry
Athens: University - > Bank (11)

Turn10:
Move the blockade around a bit, they now have two holes to enter through
Switch Artemisium from a Courthouse to a a Longbow (1). That gives me enough cover for whatever is in that new caravel


Thoughts: This turnset was, in my mind was dominated be games of chicken. Garrisons where the Iroquois were marching, blockades where the Zulu were sailing. Objectively though, this was a growth and building turnset. Now heres what I suggest for the couple of turnsets

We need peace with Shaka. This blockade is consuming a large part of our military.

Babylon is on the rocks. We can let Hiawatha seize her, or we can do the job our self. Personally i don't think their is even a question.

We should build some knights, we're headed towards cavalry, and some upgradeable knights would help us get a force up faster.

We need to think about getting more slaves. I don't think we have enough for the railroad bonanza, and we need to start planning for that. The obvious answer would be our friend Hiwatha, with his big, razable cities. this can wait until Babylon is a ruin of course, it's just something to think about.