Buce01: The Slavemaster

[Elephantium]

I've looked at the save, and I can play a few turns (probably only 5) tomorrow night if you like, Buce.

However, I'm not sure how seriously we're looking at trying for Newton's - Athens will need to be adjusted if we want to start prebuilding.

Also, a dotmap for our next few settlers would be nice.

 

[Bucephalus]

I've looked at the save, and I can play a few turns (probably only 5) tomorrow night if you like, Buce.

However, I'm not sure how seriously we're looking at trying for Newton's - Athens will need to be adjusted if we want to start prebuilding.

Also, a dotmap for our next few settlers would be nice.

Thanks Tusker, but I've given myself a day off tomorrow so I'll play it.

I'll post some thoughts later today - hell, I've been that busy I didn't even realise that I hadn't done so already.

Really sorry, team.

 

[Phaedo]

I don't think Newton's is really our best option. As much as the benefits would be nice, I'm not sure we would make it without an earlier pre-build. It was more whimsy than anything else.

 

[Bucephalus]

I don't think Newton's is really our best option. As much as the benefits would be nice, I'm not sure we would make it without an earlier pre-build. It was more whimsy than anything else.

As Wonders go it's a 'would like' rather than 'must have'; anyway, Wonders are a crutch which we don't need.

 

[Bucephalus]

OK, these are my thoughts for my set:

Phaedo has left things nicely back on track so I don't intend to change much.

I'd like to rush enough Cavs to get us back to 'average' compared to Shaka, then get back to Uni builds.

A couple of trades going begging: Egypt will give 58gpt for Physics, and I'd like to give MT to Hittites for a token 15gpt; the gold isn't needed but it would make them more of a match for Shaka.

As far as research is concerned I suggest continuing at max science to the IA - we are outstripping AI research even without Uni's.

I don't fancy our chances of getting Newton's; there are three Wonders being built which will see a cascade.

 

[Phaedo]

I left trades open. We just got Physics and the AI techs just came in last turn so we have 3-4 turns before anyone could get it. I think the other continent is looking toward Demo. I don't think it matters just yet but my guess is that we will want Cleo to be strong enough to counter balance the Arabs. I'm all for giving the Hittites MT.

 

[Bucephalus]

I left trades open. We just got Physics and the AI techs just came in last turn so we have 3-4 turns before anyone could get it. I think the other continent is looking toward Demo. I don't think it matters just yet but my guess is that we will want Cleo to be strong enough to counter balance the Arabs. I'm all for giving the Hittites MT.

Trades open? you've sucked every last coin out of every coffer bar Egypt's!

We've also 5,000+ gold to spend so we'll soon have military parity with Shaka once I've rushed a few Cavs.

Really, it was a very solid set.

 

[CivActuary]

I don't think we need Newton - we are outresearching the AI and still have some unis to build. We probably would not get it anyway. Plus, I'd rather have the cavalry.

 

[Phaedo]

Trades open? you've sucked every last coin out of every coffer bar Egypt's!

We've also 5,000+ gold to spend so we'll soon have military parity with Shaka once I've rushed a few Cavs.

Really, it was a very solid set.

Thanks.

We just got Physics so I left that trade open. With the trades I made, I broke the AIs banks but they were still able to get gold the next turn (Especially Egypt). I'm assuming they dropped the research slider to get the necessary gold. If we do sell Egypt Physics now, won't that give them a second tier tech? The AI could further lower research and we would just be feeding Cleo. I wonder if we shouldn't wait until someone gets something we don't have and break everyone again or sell in 2 turns if that doesn't happen.

Also, I believe the Arabs or Cleo was sending a boat toward our continent via OUR Eastern Ocean. That is why the galley is there, trying to trail it so we will have an idea when we will lose our brokering position. We might want to sell off our contacts in a turn or two to get some value for them.

 

[Bucephalus]

Well it started out as a mundane set; nothing but worker turns for 9 turns, so I amused myself spending some gold rushing Cavs.

And what a good decision that turned out to be; at the beginning of turn 10 Ottomans allied Hittites against us, who immediately allied Irquois.

They both had units within our territory, and I suffered a ROP rape; we held two cities by the skin of a MI's teeth, and I managed to bring the situation under control. The next player will have a few problems possibly - we are woefully short on defensive cover - but we have enough Cav to take back anything that we may lose.

I set us on a course for Nationalism (I can't remember the last time I researched it at all, never mind first) and we will have Rifles in 5 turns.

Fortunately we have enough gold to upgrade all of our Hoplites, because Shaka is going to be a problem soon. He has all but driven Hiawatha from the mainland and has taken several Hittite cities.

I think we need to go on a military spending spree, rushing Cavs, and Rifles when we can.

If we limit our incursions in to Hittite territory - just enough to push them away from our borders - we should be ready to shaft Shaka in 20 turns (I allied him against Mursilis).

Turnlog to follow shortly.

 

[Phaedo]

Wow, that sounds pretty hairy. Looking forward to see how it all played out.

 

[Bucephalus]

Pre turn:Upgrade two Knights; Do the city tour, just a couple of mm changes; rush some Cavs; kill Babs spearman; Sell MT to Mursilis for 15gpt + loose change.

1)

Found 'New Athens';
Move units towards Babylon;

2)

Nada but Worker stuff;
Rush Cavs;

3)

Ottomans complete 'Copernicus';

4)

Learn ToG, begin Magnetism;
Capture Babylon;
Move galleys to pick up units to attack the last Bab stronghold (a two tile island);
Sell ToG to Cleo for 190gpt, WM + 84g;
Sell ToG to Abu for 23 gpt + 600g;
Rush Cavs

5)

Arabs build JS Bach's;
Ottomans build Smith's;

We now share a border with Shaka;
Cannot land on Bab island - it is occupied by a Hittite spear;
Peace with Babylon;
Rush Cavs;

6)

'New Sparta founded;

7)

Learn Magnets, Medicine free, begin Nationalism.
Rush Cavs;

8/9)

Nada but Worker turns and Cav rushing;

10)

Ottomans MA Hittites against us - we lose our Incense;
Hittites MA Iroquiois against us;
Iroquois attack two cities, only just failing;
Hittite Cavs attack two cities, we just hold on;
Ottomans make peace with Arabs;

New Themopylae founded;
MA Shaka against Hittites;
ROP Shaka;
Destroy Ivriz; (4-2)
Destroy Emar; (8-3)
Shuffle units to frontline cities;
Sell Magnets to Ottomans for 220gpt + 80g;
Sell Magnets to Abu for 85gpt + 430g;
Sell Magnets to Shaka for Silks;

Save

 

[Elephantium]

Did we make peace with the Ottomans? The turnlog says they MA'd Hittites against us, but then it says we sold Magnets to them.

Edit: Also, got it.

 

[Bucephalus]

Did we make peace with the Ottomans? The turnlog says they MA'd Hittites against us, but then it says we sold Magnets to them.

Edit: Also, got it.

They made peace with Arabia the same IBT; I took advantage of the opportunity to make peace to prevent them allying Shaka, then I sold them Magnets.

This experience shows the dangers inherant in joining other people's wars; if Phaedo had consulted first, I would have cautioned against it.

 

[Bucephalus]

The attached pic shows where I think that the main thrust against Mursilis should go; it will drive back his borders and give us a supply of silks. All cities should be razed for slaves - we have RR to build soon.

I don't think that we should go beyond that; Shaka should be left to lose his Cavs against Hittite defenders while we build up our forces. I strongly recommend that we plan on taking out Shaka ASAP, and to do that is going to require a lot more units than we currently have.

Fortunately, we have 6,000+g and an income of 600+gpt; we have 7 or 8 cities on Cavalry builds, which we can afford to rush every second turn. This will give us another 40 during Tusker's set - we currently have 21. We have 27 Hoplites which we will be able to upgrade to Rifles in 5 turns - we need to keep 3,500g put aside for this.

We will need Settlers, and I suggest we rush these from appropriately corrupt cities; I've taken Sparta off Settler builds, which IMO is something that should have been done a long time ago. It is potentially our best city, yet lacks population and even basic infastructure.

Once we have Nationalism, I think Steam should be researched next; our free tech was Medicine, as was that of Ottomans, so Nationalism is going to be a monopoly tech.

Finally, 'New Athens' is building a Worker - please switch it to a Settler and spare my blushes.

Spoiler :

 

[Elephantium]

Who likes Cav armies?

 

[Elephantium]

I'm a bit less than halfway, and I have to say...we really weren't prepared for war. I've lost several military units, and I had to gift Akkad to the Zulu to avoid losing it directly to the Hittites.

I'm almost in position to make a counterattack in that area, and we've razed Samarra. All in all, we're doing okay. Some cannons would have been nice, though.

Here's my turnlog so far:

Pre-turn (210):

Change New Athens to Courthouse
MM Pergamon to grow in 1 instead of 2
MM Delphi for faster growth
MM Ashur for growth
MM Heraklea for growth
MM Rhodes for growth - one more citizen working will let it hit 16 spt, post-corruption.
Switch Thessalonica to Cav - I'll switch it to Rifle once we have the tech (otherwise, we'd have an obsolete musket built on the turn before Nationalism comes in).
* MM Apollonia next turn.

Review thread, take a deep breath, and hit enter!

IT:

We lose a Hoplite in New Athens. We see two Iro longbows die

near Chondote.
Ellipi: Barracks->Cav
Halicarnassus: Harbor->Courthouse
Delphi: Cav->Cav
WLKD in many places.
Order restored in Sicyon.
Ottomans are building Shakespeare's Theater.
Egyptians enter the IA.

Turn 1, 211 (960 AD):

Counterattack the Hittie Cav at New Athens with an elite MDI, producing a leader! Cav army
We assemble troops outside Samarra. We attack with one cav, but he retreats.

IT:

Lose a Hoplite vs. Hittie Cav at Akkad.
Hittie Cav lands next to Sparta.
Portuguese want to talk. They want to trade maps. No thanks.
Iroquois Longbow dies vs. MDI in old Bab lands.
Corinth: Cavs
Knossos: Cavs
Argos: Cavs
Phocaea: University->Cannon
Ephesus: Cavs
Thesalonica: Cavs
Rhodes: Cavs
Tegea: Harbor->Mkt
Apolyton: Courthouse->Musket

Turn 2, 212 (970 AD):

Disband an old Archer (!) who was hanging around.
Cav > Hittite Cav at Marathon
Cav > Hittite Cav at Sparta
Fortify Serapis when we sight a Hittie Caravel.
Two new slaves! We kill an Iro musket-settler pair near New

Athens with a Cav.
Army > two Muskets in Samarra.
Army is now yellowlined, so I use other cavs to take Samarra,

losing two. Another 8 slaves!
We retreat a Cav at Akkad.

IT:

We lose an MDI to Hittite Cav at Akkad.
P Hoplite kills Hittite Cav.
Lots of Zulu Cavs are headed towards Hubishna.
Our people want to build the Heroic Epic and Military Academy.
Ithaca: Libarary->University
Etreria: University->Musket

Turn 3, 213 (980 AD):

Move troops around. The force that attacked Samarra is rotating back for a couple of turns to heal. The Iro are restless in the North, so I move some troops up that way.
Akkad is a problem. I'm down to one MDI, and I'm pretty sure I'll lose him in the IT, so I reluctantly gift the city to the Zulu.

IT:

I made the right decision on Akkad. Hittites took it with a redlined Cav, then killed my MDI with a Longbow.
We see some Zulu Cavs running towards Hittite lands, plus one redlined Zulu cav retreating from the direction of Hubishna towards Zulu territory.
Also, two Iro longbows land next to Sparta.
Athens: Cavs
Sparta: Lib->Uni
Ellipi: Cavs
Thermo: Cavs
Pharsalos: Cavs
Knossos: Cavs
Argos: Cavs
Ephesus: Cavs
Rhodes: Cavs
Egyptians start Shakespeare's.
Athens: Cavs

Turn 4, 214 (990 AD):

New Corinth founded E of Troy. Making Harbor.
Switch Wealth-building cities to Cannons.
MM Pergamon, Sicyon, and Mytilene to prevent riots. 25% Give peace a chance.

 

[Bucephalus]

Good call on Akkad.

Remember not to do too much damage to the Hittites - just enough to make our borders safe. It's much more imporant to save the military for an assault on Zulu; Shaka, meanwhile, is welcome to lose units taking Hittite cities for our eventual gain.

When you upgrade our Hoplites, take a look at the Military Advisor; that will give us an idea of how strong Shaka really is, because we were still showing as 'weak' with 20+ Cavs, and I doubt Shaka has that many offensive units left.

 

[Elephantium]

Pics and save coming soon. Here's my complete turnlog:

Pre-turn (210):

Change New Athens to Courthouse
MM Pergamon to grow in 1 instead of 2
MM Delphi for faster growth
MM Ashur for growth
MM Heraklea for growth
MM Rhodes for growth - one more citizen working will let it hit 16 spt, post-corruption.
Switch Thessalonica to Cav - I'll switch it to Rifle once we have the tech (otherwise, we'd have an obsolete musket built on the turn before Nationalism comes in).
* MM Apollonia next turn.

Review thread, take a deep breath, and hit enter!

IT:

We lose a Hoplite in New Athens. We see two Iro longbows die near Chondote.
Ellipi: Barracks->Cav
Halicarnassus: Harbor->Courthouse
Delphi: Cav->Cav
WLKD in many places.
Order restored in Sicyon.
Ottomans are building Shakespeare's Theater.
Egyptians enter the IA.

Turn 1, 211 (960 AD):

Counterattack the Hittie Cav at New Athens with an elite MDI, producing a leader! Cav army
We assemble troops outside Samarra. We attack with one cav, but he retreats.

IT:

Lose a Hoplite vs. Hittie Cav at Akkad.
Hittie Cav lands next to Sparta.
Portuguese want to talk. They want to trade maps. No thanks.
Iroquois Longbow dies vs. MDI in old Bab lands.
Corinth: Cavs
Knossos: Cavs
Argos: Cavs
Phocaea: University->Cannon
Ephesus: Cavs
Thesalonica: Cavs
Rhodes: Cavs
Tegea: Harbor->Mkt
Apolyton: Courthouse->Musket

Turn 2, 212 (970 AD):

Disband an old Archer (!) who was hanging around.
Cav > Hittite Cav at Marathon
Cav > Hittite Cav at Sparta
Fortify Serapis when we sight a Hittie Caravel.
Two new slaves! We kill an Iro musket-settler pair near New Athens with a Cav.
Army > two Muskets in Samarra.
Army is now yellowlined, so I use other cavs to take Samarra, losing two. Another 8 slaves!
We retreat a Cav at Akkad.

IT:

We lose an MDI to Hittite Cav at Akkad.
P Hoplite kills Hittite Cav.
Lots of Zulu Cavs are headed towards Hubishna.
Our people want to build the Heroic Epic and Military Academy.
Ithaca: Libarary->University
Etreria: University->Musket

Turn 3, 213 (980 AD):

Move troops around. The force that attacked Samarra is rotating back for a couple of turns to heal. The Iro are restless in the North, so I move some troops up that way.
Akkad is a problem. I'm down to one MDI, and I'm pretty sure I'll lose him in the IT, so I reluctantly gift the city to the Zulu.

IT:

I made the right decision on Akkad. Hittites took it with a redlined Cav, then killed my MDI with a Longbow.
We see some Zulu Cavs running towards Hittite lands, plus one redlined Zulu cav retreating from the direction of Hubishna towards Zulu territory.
Also, two Iro longbows land next to Sparta.
Athens: Cavs
Sparta: Lib->Uni
Ellipi: Cavs
Thermo: Cavs
Pharsalos: Cavs
Knossos: Cavs
Argos: Cavs
Ephesus: Cavs
Rhodes: Cavs
Egyptians start Shakespeare's.
Athens: Cavs

Turn 4, 214 (990 AD):

New Corinth founded E of Troy. Making Harbor.
Switch Wealth-building cities to Cannons.
MM Pergamon, Sicyon, and Mytilene to prevent riots. 25% Give peace a chance.
Sci slider to 80% to reduce beaker overrun

IT:

Iro land a Knight next to Sparta
We see lots of Zulu cavs running around along our southern border (near Hubishna).
Nationalism -> Steam Power!
Artemisium: Uni->Rifle
Mycenae: Lib-> duct
Marathon: Uni->Cannon
Apollonia: Lib->Courthouse

Turn 5, 215 (1000 AD):

Upgrade several Hoplites to Rifles.
A Cav stack razes Khanesh. No slaves though :/
Kill the Knight next to Sparta at the cost of one Cav.
Switch Etreria to Settler (done in 2), MM for growth in 2.
Switch Herakleia to Harbor
Switch Apolyton to Settler, done in 5, growth in 5.

IT:

Hubishna falls to the Zulu.
Corinth: Cav->Rifle
Delphi: Cav->Cav
Pharsalos: Cavs
Knossos: Cavs
Thessalonica: Rifle->Rifle
Rhodes: Cavs
Sicyon: Uni->Mkt

Turn 6, 216 (1010 AD):

The siege of Ankuwa begins! We kill three defenders and raze it! We get 5 slaves and 2 Trebuchet.
The Army razes Akkad after killing three defenders.
Switch Phocaea to Mkt and MM to stop a riot. Likewise in Sicyon, Mytilene, Troy, Pergamon, and Megara.
Switch Apollonia to Settler.

IT:

Lose a cav at the ruins of Ankuwa.
Athens: Cavs
Thermo: Cavs
Ephesus: Cavs
Etreria: Settler->Settler
Syracuse: Uni->Settler

Turn 7, 217 (1020 AD):

Trade Magnets for WM, 2 gold, Gems, and Wines with Netherlands.
Buy Furs for 50gpt+2 gold from Arabia.
We can buy Incense from Shaka, but if we're planning on war with him soon, we can't afford that trade commitment.
Raze Eridu in the N
Kill a Hittite Longbow
MM Apollonia for growth/production of settler in 6.
MM several towns to prevent riots.

IT:

Cleo cancels our Spices deal. I sign a renewed deal for 7gpt.

Turn 8, 218 (1030 AD):

Cash-rush a bunch of cavs - we're down to 316+314gpt now.
Move troops and workers - I'm starting to get workers into position to rail efficiently. We need gangs of six for 2-turn rails and gangs of 12 for 1-turn rails on open terrain.
Rush a Settler in Syracuse.

IT:

Hittites suicide 1 cav, retreat another, and win with a third vs. our stack of MDI in the western mountains.
Athens: Cavs
Thermo: Cavs
Delphi: Cavs
Knossos: Cavs
Artemisium: Cavs
Argos: Cavs
Syracuse: Settler->Settler
We get a palace expansion! I put in a dome, plus one-storey east and west wings.

Turn 9, 219 (1040 AD):

Settle New Delphi 1N of the Silks at what used to be Ankuwa. Making Walls.
Move workers and troops.

IT:

Arabs demand Nationalism. I cave in - we need his Furs, not another war.
Pergamon: Mkt->Uni
Apolyton: Settlers

Turn 10, 220 (1050 AD):

Eulbar:
MDI kills a Musket
We lose 2 MDIs
1 Cav retreats
1 cav wins, Leader! I'm thinking we should build another Cav army.
A final cav kills the last defender and razes the city. Voila, 6 more slaves!
Hittites are now a 5CC.

We can sell our Silks, but we need to keep them - our Silk deal with Shaka runs out in 10 turns.
We're still 'weak' compared to Shaka, even after upgrading all of our Hoplites and getting our Cav count up to 51.
I took a look with Champion, and the Hittite Spear is still on the Bab island.

 

[Bucephalus]

Arabs demand Nationalism. I cave in - we need his Furs, not another war.

That's an incredibly bad call - we have nothing to fear from the Arabs - and that is probably the most valuable monopoly tech in the era; please tell me that you are joking......