Bug Report

[Roland Johansen]

known bug, this fuctionality (all terraforming stuff) will be removed because too bugged and not AI aware

Oh, that's a pity. I really liked the planting of forests. Strange that the cutting down of forests is in the vanilla game and the planting of forests seems to be difficult to add. Sometimes the little things are hard.

Good luck with the next version.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Oh, that's a pity. I really liked the planting of forests. Strange that the cutting down of forests is in the vanilla game and the planting of forests seems to be difficult to add. Sometimes the little things are hard.

Good luck with the next version.

The hardest thing here actually is to teach the AI where, when and how to use the function.

 

[Roland Johansen]

The hardest thing here actually is to teach the AI where, when and how to use the function.

Teaching the AI something is always very hard, so I can imagine. It should view planting a forest as forest + lumbermill. It should disregard the health bonus. You can sometimes use the health bonus but it is rarely really important. There is a period in the game where the forest + lumbermill is superior to the workshop. However, it takes such a long time to build that I generally only do it once the quicker improvements are finished.

Why is it harder to teach the AI about this tile improvement than about others? It can't see it as forest + lumbermill?

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Teaching the AI something is always very hard, so I can imagine. It should view planting a forest as forest + lumbermill. It should disregard the health bonus. You can sometimes use the health bonus but it is rarely really important. There is a period in the game where the forest + lumbermill is superior to the workshop. However, it takes such a long time to build that I generally only do it once the quicker improvements are finished.

Why is it harder to teach the AI about this tile improvement than about others? It can't see it as forest + lumbermill?

Because it is very difficult to teach AI to use any new improvement. Basically, vanilla AI has no concept at all that forests can be planted, and by default doesn't view this possibility at all. And messing with AI routines is always SDK work, and hard SDK work at that.

 

[Roland Johansen]

Because it is very difficult to teach AI to use any new improvement. Basically, vanilla AI has no concept at all that forests can be planted, and by default doesn't view this possibility at all. And messing with AI routines is always SDK work, and hard SDK work at that.

Ok, it is hard, I believe you.

Good luck with the next version. I can really appreciate the mindset of not adding stuff that the AI can't use. In the end it would lead to the AI and the human player playing two different games.
I do think that adding the possibility to use workshops on tundra tiles without access to fresh water was a good choice. I means that even if the AI has chopped the forest of a tundra tile, it doesn't make the tile useless. Thank you for that.

 

[Roland Johansen]

Another problem. The AI seems incapable of applying the new maximum number of units per tile rules well and maybe suffers from the crowded promotion. In my present game, one AI is hugely more powerful than another. Better weapons technology, ten times as many cities (20 vs 2), far stronger army and still he can't finish him off and is moving only small groups of units to the 2 remaining enemy cities while leaving a huge stack in the staging ground city. This has been going on for dozens of turns. Maybe the large number of units needed to stop the city from revolting is conflicting with the max number of units per tile rule and therefore the AI is incapable of creating decent sized stacks. I can't recall seeing this kind of behaviour in BetterAI (which you have implemented). Have you changed other things then the crowded promotion and the maximum number of units per tile which could affect the AI combat behaviour?

How could I remove this promotion and the maximum number of units per tile rule from this mod for my personal use? (I always change stuff myself, have done so with several things in this mod. Everyone has their personal taste.)

I've found

<Define>
<!-- Max stack size for betterAI by Mexico -->
<DefineName>MAX_STACK_SIZE</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>15</iDefineIntVal>
</Define>


within the file GlobalDefinesAlt.xml. If I were to set this value to 0 or remove this definition, would it remove the maximum number of units per tile rule? Or do I just have to set it to a ridiculously large value to effectively remove it.

I've also found PROMOTION_CROWDED in the file CIV4PromotionInfos.xml. Can I just remove the whole promotion or should I set the values of it to 0?

By the way, why exactly was this introduced into the mod? Historically, there have always been large concentrations of troops in decisive battles and 15 units on a 100 times 100 kilometer tile doesn't sound too ridiculous. Of course, you may do whatever you like, but I just would like to know the reasoning behind it. I might just not have seen the light. However, you don't need to defend yourselves against me, I mainly just want to know how to change these rules.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Mexico]

Another problem. The AI seems incapable of applying the new maximum number of units per tile rules well and maybe suffers from the crowded promotion. In my present game, one AI is hugely more powerful than another. Better weapons technology, ten times as many cities (20 vs 2), far stronger army and still he can't finish him off and is moving only small groups of units to the 2 remaining enemy cities while leaving a huge stack in the staging ground city. This has been going on for dozens of turns. Maybe the large number of units needed to stop the city from revolting is conflicting with the max number of units per tile rule and therefore the AI is incapable of creating decent sized stacks. I can't recall seeing this kind of behaviour in BetterAI (which you have implemented). Have you changed other things then the crowded promotion and the maximum number of units per tile which could affect the AI combat behaviour?

How could I remove this promotion and the maximum number of units per tile rule from this mod for my personal use? (I always change stuff myself, have done so with several things in this mod. Everyone has their personal taste.)

I've found

<Define>
<!-- Max stack size for betterAI by Mexico -->
<DefineName>MAX_STACK_SIZE</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>15</iDefineIntVal>
</Define>


within the file GlobalDefinesAlt.xml. If I were to set this value to 0 or remove this definition, would it remove the maximum number of units per tile rule? Or do I just have to set it to a ridiculously large value to effectively remove it.

I've also found PROMOTION_CROWDED in the file CIV4PromotionInfos.xml. Can I just remove the whole promotion or should I set the values of it to 0?

By the way, why exactly was this introduced into the mod? Historically, there have always been large concentrations of troops in decisive battles and 15 units on a 100 times 100 kilometer tile doesn't sound too ridiculous. Of course, you may do whatever you like, but I just would like to know the reasoning behind it. I might just not have seen the light. However, you don't need to defend yourselves against me, I mainly just want to know how to change these rules.

Thanks in advance.

crowded promotion is part of stack aid promotion component and this represent that too big army is hard to organize...
remember that one unit in game don't represent one "unit" in real, it represent something like battalion ...

regarding mod settings: if you set MAX_STACK_SIZE to 0, you will disable for AI creating any stack... so if you want large groups, you need higher number here and also you must change limit in StackAid.py file ..
look for line
if (aid > 15):
and change to same number as you set GlobalAltDefines.xml

btw, this python script is bugged, also count naval forces, air forces and non-combat units (settlers etc) to limit - this bug is solved in next release

EDIT: in attachment you find updated StackAid.py script which have this bug solved for current TR version (it is zipped because of attachment limitation) - unzip and replace this in Total Realism\Assets\Python directory

 

[Roland Johansen]

crowded promotion is part of stack aid promotion component and this represent that too big army is hard to organize...
remember that one unit in game don't represent one "unit" in real, it represent something like battalion ...

regarding mod settings: if you set MAX_STACK_SIZE to 0, you will disable for AI creating any stack... so if you want large groups, you need higher number here and also you must change limit in StackAid.py file ..
look for line
if (aid > 15):
and change to same number as you set GlobalAltDefines.xml

btw, this python script is bugged, also count naval forces, air forces and non-combat units (settlers etc) to limit - this bug is solved in next release

EDIT: in attachment you find updated StackAid.py script which have this bug solved for current TR version (it is zipped because of attachment limitation) - unzip and replace this in Total Realism\Assets\Python directory

Hey, thanks.

That file also explains exactly how the aid promotion formula works. I was wondering about that.

I saw that there is a big gap in the recon units and there are no modern cavalry units. I remember a civ3 mod that had renaissance and modern recon units. The medieval recon units would be horse based light units and the modern recon units would be units like a motorcycle unit and a humvee. The helicopters could then be the modern cavalry units.

Since recon units have a lower combat strength, maybe their aid promotion should work a bit different so that you don't need a mass of recon units to get the recon aid promotion.

Another question. If I change these things about the crowded promotion will it apply to the game I'm playing at the moment or do I have to start a new one?

 

[Mexico]

Hey, thanks.

That file also explains exactly how the aid promotion formula works. I was wondering about that.

I saw that there is a big gap in the recon units and there are no modern cavalry units. I remember a civ3 mod that had renaissance and modern recon units. The medieval recon units would be horse based light units and the modern recon units would be units like a motorcycle unit and a humvee. The helicopters could then be the modern cavalry units.

Since recon units have a lower combat strength, maybe their aid promotion should work a bit different so that you don't need a mass of recon units to get the recon aid promotion.

Another question. If I change these things about the crowded promotion will it apply to the game I'm playing at the moment or do I have to start a new one?

this changes will apply immediately to game, no need start new game
with one exception: you must move at least one unit in stack for promotion can be recalculated

hmm..this give me another idea for incoming version - changing value in GlobalAltDefines also update size in python .. but this need some SDK changes, i must analyze this....

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Hey, thanks.

That file also explains exactly how the aid promotion formula works. I was wondering about that.

I saw that there is a big gap in the recon units and there are no modern cavalry units. I remember a civ3 mod that had renaissance and modern recon units. The medieval recon units would be horse based light units and the modern recon units would be units like a motorcycle unit and a humvee. The helicopters could then be the modern cavalry units.

Since recon units have a lower combat strength, maybe their aid promotion should work a bit different so that you don't need a mass of recon units to get the recon aid promotion.

Another question. If I change these things about the crowded promotion will it apply to the game I'm playing at the moment or do I have to start a new one?

I wonder how people sometimes keep posting so on-topic without knowing that! See, we've just finished implementing a distinctive light cavalry line that gives scouting stack aid. In my mind, the introduction of light/heavy cavalry should add a whole new tactical layer to ancient/medieval/renaissance combat...

 

[Roland Johansen]

double post, sorry.

 

[Roland Johansen]

I wonder how people sometimes keep posting so on-topic without knowing that! See, we've just finished implementing a distinctive light cavalry line that gives scouting stack aid. In my mind, the introduction of light/heavy cavalry should add a whole new tactical layer to ancient/medieval/renaissance combat...

That sounds great. Maybe you could extent the cavalry aid to the modern age too. See my suggestion in the previous post. But it of course takes quite some work to add all of these units and balance it well.

Good luck and thanks a lot for the help!

 

[Inverted]

1st:
When playing the game on huge map in later game - for example on world map scenario - some units randomly lose their textures and turn black. Then more and more keeps on turning black till even cities and tile improvements join them, and after that the game crashes with a memory allocation error (cant remember exactly, but its a civ 4 error message). Also if I alt-tab to force it to reload the graphics everything gets fine again.
I only think this has something to do with the mod because I never ever experienced this in the vanilla version.

2nd:
After loading up the game (with the "Civ 4 Warlords TR" desktop shortcut - however I dont think it matters) the civilopedia is seriously screwed if the enter it from the main menu. For example it only lists units down to african spearmen (I think) and if you open the unit upgrade tree it crashes the whole game. Also managed to crash it with clicking something else in pedia but I cant remember what it was.
But once I load a game the civilopedia works fine, only crashed for me when I opened it from the main menu.


Sorry if first was posted and I know the pedia was indeed posted already but I couldnt find the actual post only one referring back to it, so I dont know what details it included.

 

[Anaztazioch]

Since there are 6 of us in team, and after any addition to mod, we test it instantly and point out bugs/disbalances, TR has became "bug-less" mod.

Earlier when there was only Houman and Mexico, they had simly not enough time to make all nesesary test. Still we have some bugs (but not like Dark Messiah had, when game was crashing when loading saves lol - how did they test it ?), but those are rather nailed early thanks to yuour feedback and fixed often in an early patch.

But 1st: its Civ4 engine problem with memory alocation for textures etc.
2nd: This is well known and fixed (i have been told, i usually launch game not wonder in civopedia, or use it in game - i got used to it not working in menu )

 

[Inverted]

According to my search noone has mentioned this yet, however I guess most of you already realized, maybe its even meant to be like this. So dastur is the ultimate way to stop riots. Using it in a city instantly cancels any riot there. So combine this with the border expansion and the result is that you can use any city in the turn you captured it. Its also good to counter assasins. Bit overpowered if you ask me.
(I post this here as a bug cause I guess you didnt code it to work like this, but its a side-effect of culture generation)

 

[Anaztazioch]

Wow. Havent tought of that.

 

[Houman]

nice one....

 

[BLubmuz]

And i always wait when a city goes out of revolt prior to use a Dastur...

btw i think zoroastrianism is the most useful religion in the game.

 

[Houman]

And i always wait when a city goes out of revolt prior to use a Dastur...

btw i think zoroastrianism is the most useful religion in the game.

Hmm this was not intended. ....Zoroastrianism is supposed to be an expensive and fragile religion with a high cultural value as it is in real. It was not meant to be an uber religion.

It is a feature-bug. We need to think about a solution...

 

[Inverted]

You should only enable the "create great work" action if the city is not in riot. If thats possible, of course.

Btw, now that I checked I also found that the civilopedia says that dastur "Can create a great work (+80)" while its actually +120.

edit:
Ive just found this one: If a unit has Flanking I & II & III promotions it wont ever level up again. Ive tried in world builder and the problem is not caused by Flanking III, this only happens if you have all three. (I know that in theory you couldnt have just the 3rd, but this shows that the problem is caused by having all 3 of them on a unit)