Buildings Thread

[SultanRedSnake]

Now that we're in the "Immersion" phase of development I thought it appropriate to call up where we stand on the current state of buildings. It's both my opinion and understanding that no outstanding balance issues exist, at least for generic varieties, and so we'd probably be free to workshop refinements and flavor tweaks; stuff like that. I for one actually have no salient ideas to propose as of now but just felt a sudden curiosity to hear from the commoonitah cuz yous guys have some ideas about stuff and crap.

 

[Dracosolon]

Good thread.

I'll start by noting that I don't care much for defensive buildings outside of the XP bonus for siege units from Castles. Maybe they could reduce unit maintenance by 1?

 

[Lennon789]

Is there a reason why Tier 2 worship buildings (Cathedrals, Sanhedrins, etc) only provide happiness if your State Religion matches the building? I would think religious minorities would be pleased with you building them a Tier 2 worship building.

 

[Publicola]

Good thread.

I'll start by noting that I don't care much for defensive buildings outside of the XP bonus for siege units from Castles. Maybe they could reduce unit maintenance by 1?

Huh. That's an interesting point, because I also practically never build walls except in very rare scenarios, and only build castles for the espionage bonus. Compare that to history where every town and city had walls....

Two possibilities come to mind, to incentive players to build walls more often: either give it a +1 happiness (similar to the happiness from having garrison units; the city is happier that it has built-up defenses) or give it a small deduction to maintenance (similar to courthouses; this would represent the city is better protected against minor bandits and thieves).

 

[AOS9001]

...People don't build walls? I'm always building walls, so I can build castles for that vital siege engine XP. Walls are also a must-have for any civ expecting barb incursions, like Persia, China, Russia...

Since Spain's UB works like a nerfed courthouse, I build walls and citadels in every single colony until I discover the courthouse tech.

 

[SultanRedSnake]

Since Spain's UB works like a nerfed courthouse, I build walls and citadels in every single colony until I discover the courthouse tech.

In your 1.18 plays have you had the luck of pulling off Krak?

 

[TsimTsigal]

I'll start by noting that I don't care much for defensive buildings outside of the XP bonus for siege units from Castles. Maybe they could reduce unit maintenance by 1?

Probably Culture, and more from techs related to their cultural worth (Heritage, Tourism, etc). However, i don't know how to make culture bonus work despite being obsolete.

I rarely build Castles even for siege exp, because without stone it's easier to build a few more siege engines instead. Ofc it depends on other factors, including if +2 exp can grant another promotion or no. Overall they are low priority building, as the most dangerous Medieval opponent - the Mongols - ignore Castles defence bonus anyway. Ironically, AI benefits a lot from them; it's Protective trait from vanlla paradox, when human players have little use for it, but AI with it always gonna be a nuisance.

Is there a reason why Tier 2 worship buildings (Cathedrals, Sanhedrins, etc) only provide happiness if your State Religion matches the building? I would think religious minorities would be pleased with you building them a Tier 2 worship building.

Because religious majority will likely be unhappy about it. If anything, small Temples already work as recognition of local religious community, given they effectivelly nullify happiness malus from non-state religions.

 

[AOS9001]

In your 1.18 plays have you had the luck of pulling off Krak?

I've managed it a few times, had to switch to syncretism in the hopes Islam stayed.

 

[banzay13]

Wall and Castle must thing, coz your never know who will backstab you)) Now, sometime, i even build Star fort in cites.
Also, having Castle and troops here reduce AI will to DOW

 

[TsimTsigal]

Also, having Castle and troops here reduce AI will to DOW

AI usually judges the player (and other AIs) by power rating. Units, military buildings, defensive buildings, even some industrial buildings (iirc) all contribute to power rating.

 

[a pen-dragon]

My detailed knowledge is only about the base game, but there, military power is not that important for declaring war. The AI will just check that the relative power is under a personality-dependent threshold, and not attack if it is above. As long as you do not reach that threshold the additional military power does nothing.

Also some techs contribute to the power rating.

 

[TsimTsigal]

Well, you are indeed right. There are three types of war AI can wage (total, limited and dogpile) iirc, with varying thresholds. But you still want to raise your power rating (as long as it doesn't interfere with other goals) because every AI has different own power and thresholds, and they are impossible to track without some debug tool.

It all boils down to pretty banal idea: better not to invade a country with a strong military.

 

[Logoncal]

Wait hold on a minute, what are you guys going on about? What sort of insane people you people are to NOT build walls? This mod can and will throw units at your face without warning and youre brave enough to have zero defenses?!

Walls are like vital to stall pushes because otherwise you lose (core cities even!) vital infrastructure and that can kill your gameplay instantly

 

[Dracosolon]

Men build too many Walls and not enough Bridges.

 

[Logoncal]

Men build too many Walls and not enough Bridges.

I cant build bridges, theyre automatically built once you tech engineering

 

[Dracosolon]

I don't have much to say on other common buildings: I rarely pay that much attention to the Global era, and earlier buildings seem to be pretty balanced. Still, a couple of remarks:

- Distillery: the Pedia description isn't up to date with the effect (it lists Wheat, Rice, Wine and Sugar, instead of just Potatoes and Sugar). I also think it's a pretty vanilla building that could be made a bit more valuable. +1 flat or a Merchant slot?
- Hydro Plant: I think it's a bit too good compared to alternative sources of power. Many have noted that there are so many rivers in this mod that it's barely a limitation. I don't really like the idea of a flooding event, but there could be some disadvantage like a penalty to , or . That or require one or several Hill tiles as well.

For national wonders:
- I wonder if the National College isn't available too early, balance-wise: it could be available at Academia while Universities would be available at Education. Maybe the College could even require Universities instead of Libraries?
- The National Theatre is usually an afterthought for me: not having to care about is nice but if I'm planning to grow a big city I probably want even better national wonders, and by the time the Theatre is unlocked it's not too difficult to get enough happiness.
- Maybe the Red Cross could also have some civilian effect like +1 in all cities.
- National Park: A fun wonder to play with. Anyone else has opinions on which locations are your favorite?

 

[TsimTsigal]

- National Park: A fun wonder to play with. Anyone else has opinions on which locations are your favorite?

Honestly the only times i've put it to a good use were builing it in a Siberian city as Russia and in Amazonia as Brazil. Maybe you can make a good NP city as Canada on the Eastern coast. Other civs either have no forests/jungles or can't tech in time to reap the benefits (Congo might have amazing synergy between NP, geographic location and their UP, but that's more theorycrafting than anything).

 

[AOS9001]

National Park: A fun wonder to play with. Anyone else has opinions on which locations are your favorite?

In theory it should work great for a Brazilian city in the Amazon, except I've never managed to play a Brazil game that long, I keep losing UHV wonders to England and the Netherlands.

 

[Orbii]

In theory it should work great for a Brazilian city in the Amazon, except I've never managed to play a Brazil game that long, I keep losing UHV wonders to England and the Netherlands.

Biased, but an Albertan National Park city is solid for America or Canada --- combo of half decent to good tiles with resources, and plenty of dinky forested tiles ripe for Nature Reserves, makes a pretty decent city.

 

[Hickman888]

Oh I got a lot of ideas on this one.

A few years back, I wrote a post about some ideas regarding espionage. Long story short, we have access to a ton of buildings which allow us to boost our modifier to +125%, our to +125%, our to +175%, but only to +75% for . Not only that, but we don't get access to the first modifier building until the end of the Medieval era, the Constabulary. And it is locked behind the Jail building. And it is unlocked two full eras after we get access to the slider. So it is hard to justify running the slider for most of the game.

• So I think a Classical era building, the Listening Post (or whatever better name ya'll got) that increases by 25% would be very warranted.
• I'd also argue the Constabulary shouldn't be locked behind the Jail, as these two buildings are fulfilling two different purposes for a city.
• Another modifier for the late game, a Cybersecurity Office, can increase with power.
• And of course, we need a National Wonder to increase by 100%, just like we have the Central Bank and the National College.

Moving on from Espionage, I think the concept of Cathedrals and Tier 2 buildings is something we should explore for other buildings types. That is, building four Tier 1 buildings gives you access to a stronger Tier 2 building.

• Appellate Court: Requires Representation; Requires 4 built Courthouses; Reduces maintenance in this city by an additional 25% and further curbs expansion instability. Settled Great Statesmen in this city receive +2 and .
• Military Base: Requires Combined Arms; Requires 4 built Barracks'; +2 xp for land units. Settled Great Generals give +2
• Cathedrals: Settled Great Prophets give +2 , +4 . I really do think Cathedrals could use a bit of a buff, they're not really worth it usually unless you need