Chamnix,
"if you want I can battle you for a early spaceship date in that game ."
LOL... thanks for the challenge... but I can't say I have confidence in building the GL on a *standard* sized map on Deity (huge seems much more feasible since we have a slower tech pace... I think). Maybe I underestimate my skill here though. Not having it or having to capture it makes for a different sort of spaceship game. Don't get me wrong, I've started playing that COTM, but with the enhanced UU I've decided to try and play MUCH, MUCH differently than I usually do... including city spacing wise. Maybe it'll end in disaster for me. Who knows.
"Spaceship games are still war games."
*raises my eyebrows* Didn't I give an example of a peaceful spaceship game??? Also, check the referenced saves below and check the tech lead I had when I ended the game diplomatically. Don't you think I could have launched the spaceship easily without firing another round of ammunition? I know in the France game I had aluminum and uranium up to my ears. But, even if I didn't have it, with the tech lead I had and the cash I had flowing in or could have flowing in potentially, as well as the cash stashed up, I could gift whoever I wanted to rocketry and/or fission and buy the resources.
"In order to do fast research yourself, you need a lot of territory, and the only way to get it is by taking it."
*looks quizzically again* Check the saves here
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=263213&page=11 Admittedly those victories came as diplomatic ones and two of them on emperor, but all of them had basically no research until education other than the beeline to literature (I think I may have researched ceremonial burial and/or pottery for the Mayan and Byzantine games... maybe I took the philosophy-literature slingshot... I don't recall). I think I "took" one or two cities on cultural flips in the Mayan game. In the saved Byzantine game that didn't really happen. In the French game I actually *lost* a city on a flip. In my fourth or so attempt through COTM 48 I took one city... and it gave me something like 9 more science beakers. Also, check Drakan's "deity builder" strategy article here
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=122419... He indicates he didn't take territory for some games. He just founded cities in the wake of AI razings.
[Even on demigod, if you want an early spaceship launch, you have to do most of the Middle Age Research and almost all the Industrial Age and Modern Age research yourself.]
The second part, yes. The first part... no. Just give away the GL and then take it back.
[For a successful space game, you should be able to do 4 turn research throughout the Industrial and Modern Ages without hospitals.]
Do you mean to say that you've succesfully researched Industralization at higher levels in 4 turns between say 1100-1200 (maybe earlier... I don't recall)??? Edit that... I researched Industralization in 750 in the COTM 48 game. I had a finish date of 1305 in the Mayan game... so I'll guess something like 1000 or 1100 for Industralization. Probably about the same time for the France game and the Emperor Byzantine game.
Aabraxan,
[Relying on the GLib to offset the disadvantages of CxxxxC is a 600-shield gamble. If I miss it, I get the "Awfully-Expensive-&-Not-So-Great Library."]
Good point, and here piling in workers, focus on developing the cultural city, and though not necessary really... perhaps succsefully trading for masonry (trickier to do on Deity... though conceivable if you have mass regicide enabled on a pangea map and start as commerical or agricultural), and having experience with the 20k games can help A LOT (see T-hawk's article). I use to play almost all 20k games... so I guess that helps, mostly all on monarch and 2 good ones on Emperor so far.
The screenshot looks impressive... so I'll have to look more into those specialist farms I guess. But, when I look into it more closely I see the date as 1525. From my experience I'd have researched or traded for (I focus on the bottom part of the Industrial tech tree until I at least get scientific method... and sometimes sell industralization) The Corporation quite a few centuries earlier (even with the GL off before education)... so do you ever have that sort of science power around say 900 or 1000 (by all means check the finish dates for those saves above and try and estimate when I researched The Corporation to check my guess here... by all means)? Maybe you do... I don't know.
[At Demi-God with Raging barbs, there's a good chance that I'd never make it out of the Ancient Age, much less launch the SS faster than you.]
I basically didn't make it out of the ancient age SEVERAL times, but I learned how to do it. The thing about specialist farms comes as that they DO have their uses absolutely. But, how much science does a semi-distant city *extremely* corrupt city that can become a decently uncorrupt city with a cash-rushed courthouse and police station fare *in science* over time vs. a specialist farm? Check my COTM48 save and sell the courthouses and police stations (and libraries and universities... specialist farms can't reap the benefits of those from my understanding of them) in my towns near the northeastern English city. Then consider which style does better in the mid-to-late industrial ages and the modern age. Also, my "challenge" lay as one for people who think C2C necessarily works better for all conditions. But...
Checking my saves it seems I don't really use C4C. It doesn't look like C2C fits better either. It looks more like I use C3C or cxxxc... This doesn't come as the general pattern I have in mind though. I think of cxxxxc as the basic plan. But, if I see a river or luxury or a nice coast or don't want to settle on a mountain or hill for later production I plop down where I think appropriate. I'd also say that I *tend to* underspace my cities with a general C4C pattern than overspace, and the result comes out more like C3C than C4C... at least from looking at my saves. When I do overspace (at least lately), I sometimes found "camp towns" which produce nothing but units and workers and I may abandon later on (I didn't have these towns in COTM48).
But, maybe this doesn't get at the essence of the discussion. If you check my saves, my cities do become metros and I know I generally want as many metros as possible. So, maybe we more mean to discuss metros (gets a hospital ASAP and can usually top somehting like size 15 and generally have their "best days" in the industrial/modern eras) vs. cities (gets a hospital only in certain situations, topping size 12 comes as rare enough and has its "best days" in the medieval/ancient era).