Wouldn't "Republic of China" just be China with the right civics?
C2C civilizations megapack
- Thread starter Sparth
- Start date
Joij21
🔥Hail Satan!🔥
I mean yes, but this civpack also makes a distinction between the United States and Confederate States of America. Those two could in theory just be the America civ with different civics, but I guess the distinction is a result of the fact that both the USA and CSA existed at the same time at one point and even fought each other as a result of a civil war.
Basically the PRC and the NRC are both Chinese, but they are essentially the two warring factions of the Chinese Civil War. Therefore both did, and still do exist at the same time.
Taiwan is an enclave of the NRC, so it's sort of like if the USA was exiled from the mainland after losing to the CSA and now the USA only owns Hawaii. Fast forward to modern times and now the CSA wants to conquer the USA enclave of Hawaii so they can then proclaim to be the "true" America. That's basically the situation modern day Taiwan is in now.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Didn't know enough about China to know this... Thanks for sharing!
Joij21
🔥Hail Satan!🔥
Yep, and that's why even admitting Taiwan exists can get you in trouble on the mainland. If you admit to Taiwan's existence then to the CCP you are suggesting there is another Chinese government that exists with opposite values, and therefore putting the CCP's right to rule all China in question. Thus, the CCP must ensure that Taiwan is nothing more than the Province of Taipei, rightfully belonging to the CCP's rulership and not the rulership of a non-communist government.
What's worse and can get you into even more trouble, is admitting that the non-communist government that rules Taiwan does a better job of governing than the communist government of the mainland. Because when you do that, people who live on the mainland might get inspired and agree with you that the communists have made China worse, and then they could get the idea to rise up and overthrow Xi Jinping and his government.
Therefore, it is in the CCP's best interest to ensure Taiwan ceases to exist, even by force, if necessary, in order to ensure the CCP's continued existence and legitimacy. Otherwise, as I mentioned before people might get inspired by the Taiwanese and before long Xi's head might end up on a pike, especially now that Covid is in full swing and the people are beginning to get upset over the CCP's handling of the situation.
So don't be surprised if the Xi invades Taiwan soon, as the virus and global economy gets worse, he also needs a wag the dog type war in order to drown his people in nationalism and propaganda and distract from issues that he may receive criticism for, not to mention eliminating something that might inspire them.
The CCP managed to get about 900 million people out of extreme poverty since the 1970s. I doubt they are going to revolt over Covid-19 handling.
Besides a two week skirmish with Vietnam, China has not attacked any country since 1945.
Also the USA (by far largest military power in the world) has promised to defend Taiwan, and nobody in China wants a war with the USA. So unless the USA makes it clear that Taiwan is on its own, this invasion will not happen. (imho)
What happened before the 1970s? It's not as if the CCP only took over then.
Tibet?
Occupation by Japan (with long lasting effects), and a civil war, and territorial warlords everywhere, and extreme poverty for everyone in China (and its neighbours). The situation probably improved only gradually between 1945 and 1970, I mean the whole of Asia was a big mess. Everyone in China was illiterate and extremely poor, one can't just magically get out of such a situation.
Personally I am impressed that they did it so fast. In 1945 China was far worse off than India for example.
My point is that the current generation in China, say everyone below 50, will clearly remember the poverty of their parents or grandparents. Most of these people are a descent 'middle class' now thanks to the CCP (and they have wi-fi and high speed rail everywhere).
I can't find anything about an attack on Tibet... (according to Wikipedia Tibet was given to India in 1914 by the British and came back to China in 1950 after some talks). imho chances of a peaceful unification of China(mainland) and China(Taiwan) is more likely than a military attack.
I am not claiming in any way that those talks (or unifications) are fair or anything, I honestly have no idea. I just don't see China using their military force to attack other countries. I certainly hope they never attack anyone.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
It's my understanding Tibet's annexation by the Chinese was a military invasion without historical question. Interesting that Wikipedia would gloss that over.
Joij21
🔥Hail Satan!🔥
Not quite. They attacked the United States and South Korea as we were on the verge of defeating the north. This was in 1950.
https://history.army.mil/brochures/kw-chinter/chinter.htm
Somehow you prove my point...
China responded to a call from (North) Korea to help them defend against an invasion. They helped a country that was invaded. The Chinese army was invited by the government of (North) Korea. They did not attack, they helped defend against foreign attackers.
(I put North between brackets because both the South and North Korean government claimed the whole Korean country.)
Yudishtira
Spiritual/Creative
Bizarrely wrong. Tibet was never Britain's to give to anyone. From the fall of Qing China in 1912, Tibet was "de facto" independent. This also on Wikipedia: "The People's Liberation Army crossed the Jinsha River on 6 or 7 October 1950 and defeated the Tibetan army". And not by "some talks". The "Seventeen Point Agreement" was really a set of Chinese stipulations with no Tibetan input. It was signed by some Tibetan rando rather than a representative of the ruling regime of the Dalai Lama. Needless to say, this renders it illegitimate (even according to Wikipedia)
As for a reunification with Taiwan, as long as it's under the Taiwanese system, I too look forward to it.
Here I agree with you. A unified Korea under either regime would have been a worse outcome and a less legitimate one.
Joij21
🔥Hail Satan!🔥
Attacking for the sake of defending someone else is still attacking. Besides the North started the war by initially attacking the South, they were therefore coming to the aid of the aggressor.
Not to mention there was little to no warning at the time that China would defend North Korea, and they only entered the war once they realized the North was about to capitulate.
How so?
Yudishtira
Spiritual/Creative
By that logic(?), shooting an invader is attacking so a defender can't do it, just try to block bullets and missiles presumably. Who started it is irrelevant, both sides were the aggressors at different times, and both sides were on the verge of being totally conquered at times too. Conquering your enemy's entire territory is something that a defender can't do. "No warning" sounds like the bully complaining when resisted, or the criminal complaining about getting caught.
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
can we pls get back to the thread, if u want a discussion, pls start a thread, thx. SO..
TIL
This is an interesting read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Tibet_by_the_People's_Republic_of_China
Apparently Tibet was a part of China from 1720 till 1912, but in those 38 years of de-facto independence Tibet was isolated by all except Britain, India and USA. Strange.
I only claimed China after 1945 never attacked another country. (Semantics sorry.)
I can't know what people where thinking back then, but Russia and (the one year old new) China were obviously allied with North Korea (and were not part of the UN back then). Maybe the USA was overconfident because they just overpowered everyone in World War 2 and China was barely out of a years old civil war? I don't know, maybe you are right.
Anyway, the whole area was a big mess, with lots of fighting even within South Korea before the North attacked. It is impossible for us now to know the exact situation, causes, politics, tactics of all the players back then. I sincerely hope that current governments avoid wars.
Apologies, I will stop now.
Stevehi15
Chieftain
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2011
- Messages
- 19
I'll start with one, what more new cultures and units are going to be added?
