Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
No it was definately the ratel (or wolverine) that was being complained about.
C2C Combat Mod Introduction - Step III (The New Face of Combat)
- Thread starter Thunderbrd
- Start date
No it was definately the ratel (or wolverine) that was being complained about.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Well ...
Ratel (Honey Badger)
Family: Mustelidae
Genus: Mellivora
Species:capensis
Wolverine
Family: Mustelidae
Genus: Gulo
Species: gulo
Weasel (Stoat)
Family: Mustelidae
Genus: Mustela
Species: erminea
Ratel (Honey Badger)
Family: Mustelidae
Genus: Mellivora
Species:capensis
Wolverine
Family: Mustelidae
Genus: Gulo
Species: gulo
Weasel (Stoat)
Family: Mustelidae
Genus: Mustela
Species: erminea
Faustmouse
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2012
- Messages
- 3,524
But it LOOKS like an elephant. Analogies like this was used classify Animals for a very long time. And this makes sense: It was way more usefull to know that two animals behave similar, than if they were really related. This is all what counts.
Image you sit in your little city in 50.000 BC, your buddy just invented the fire, and another buddy comes home and tells you about a Tapir. That it had a trunk, eats grass etc. Would you stand up and say: Yeah, it MIGHT look like an elephant, but it is acutally related to those Rhinos."?
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
It also sort of looks like a small rhino without a horn. 
Azurian
The Azurian
Cool I learned how to make these types of icons. I grabbed the Ultimate Button Maker template.
Color is #E08E00 / R: 224 G: 142 B: 0
I ran a Firaxis promotion at http://imagecolorpicker.com/
80% Opacity
90% Opacity
This is a Firaxis Promotion
Color is #E08E00 / R: 224 G: 142 B: 0
I ran a Firaxis promotion at http://imagecolorpicker.com/
80% Opacity
90% Opacity
This is a Firaxis Promotion
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Why are you adjusting opacity?
The symbol looks good but I'd shrink it a touch so that it doesn't appear to be pushing at the frame.
The background itself looks to be a bit different. Is that using the standard background template file? Looks like it's the same but it may be that opacity adjustment dulling it out a bit.
The symbol looks good but I'd shrink it a touch so that it doesn't appear to be pushing at the frame.
The background itself looks to be a bit different. Is that using the standard background template file? Looks like it's the same but it may be that opacity adjustment dulling it out a bit.
Azurian
The Azurian
Oh I won't adjust opacity then. Also do you have an combat classes for Hacker Units?
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
No but since we don't have any Hacker units yet... if you want I can add one for you.
Azurian
The Azurian
I would call the combat classes:
Blackhat Hacker (bad guys)
Whitehat Hacker (good guys)
Or
Hacker (Blackhat)
Hacker (Whitehat)
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Why not just Hacker?
Azurian
The Azurian
Why not., that works too.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
@T-brd,
I think it's time to adjust the withdrawal and pursuit tags for FoF especially on Eternity Game speed. 6 turns of chasing a racoon or a possum to get a measly
or 
is too much even on Eternity game speed.
Or sitting on a forested hill and having such animals repeatedly attack and withdraw for 6 turns until they are at .008 str. or less....well it's just not fun. Rather tedious and turns into just a click turn click turn fest. Even getting a Moose or grizzly kill after 6 turns of this takes out the thrill of the hunt.
No game speed should have to endure any more than 3 turns of this. So I'm asking for the Wild animals withdrawal chance to be reduced. Have no idea what level setting it has but halving it to start would be a good start.
JosEPh
I think it's time to adjust the withdrawal and pursuit tags for FoF especially on Eternity Game speed. 6 turns of chasing a racoon or a possum to get a measly
or is too much even on Eternity game speed.Or sitting on a forested hill and having such animals repeatedly attack and withdraw for 6 turns until they are at .008 str. or less....well it's just not fun. Rather tedious and turns into just a click turn click turn fest. Even getting a Moose or grizzly kill after 6 turns of this takes out the thrill of the hunt.
No game speed should have to endure any more than 3 turns of this. So I'm asking for the Wild animals withdrawal chance to be reduced. Have no idea what level setting it has but halving it to start would be a good start.
JosEPh
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
You realize hunters have access to the strongest pursuit promos right? After a few promotions, few animals will be able to withdraw. However, birds are another matter since they fly and cannot be thus pursued. To take them down effectively requires some first strike capabilities which is something I'm looking at injecting into hunters with stealth strikes soon.
Bears don't withdraw at all. Moose... not incredibly good at it. There are some animals that are very good at withdrawal. But again, that's why hunters have such an incredible ability to develop pursuit skills. Consider that they may not need the anti-animal combat bonuses quite as much as they may benefit from pursuit enhancements.
Game speed does not influence withdrawal. But pursuit can dramatically influence it, particularly when 'early' withdrawal values are a big reason the withdrawals are likely to take place. By reducing the actual withdrawal possibility you dramatically reduce the impact of early withdrawal as well.
It's not common in my experience to have an animal withdraw 6 times.
Bears don't withdraw at all. Moose... not incredibly good at it. There are some animals that are very good at withdrawal. But again, that's why hunters have such an incredible ability to develop pursuit skills. Consider that they may not need the anti-animal combat bonuses quite as much as they may benefit from pursuit enhancements.
Game speed does not influence withdrawal. But pursuit can dramatically influence it, particularly when 'early' withdrawal values are a big reason the withdrawals are likely to take place. By reducing the actual withdrawal possibility you dramatically reduce the impact of early withdrawal as well.
It's not common in my experience to have an animal withdraw 6 times.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
I see it once or twice in a game.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
I would not have used the exact number 6 if it was not happening over and over. 406 turns into Pit's scenario and that is exactly what it does. At the moment both Spiked Club have 1 pursuit promo and have had them since ~ turn 100. Next level up I will add the 2nd Pursuit but for me woodsman II and III are more important for the long run and keeping the units alive than pursuit is.
JosEPh
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
If you're hunting with spiked clubmen you'll get those kinds of results. They aren't incapable of pursuit but when they get pursuit they don't get very good amounts of it for a promotion (so little it may not feel worth it at all). This is what is supposed to inspire the player to require hunting units. I personally usually send out stacks of hunters(whatever I can train - be it chasers, trackers or beyond)/spkd club/scout at the beginning since hunters can't handle the neanderthals.
The point of the dynamic is to make hunting feel like it really should. If you're a group of guys on foot wielding spiked clubs, you're probably pretty tough BUT are you fast enough to take down most types of animals? If the animals are aggressive and the type to engage you in close combat quite willingly, even after taking injuries, then sure, you could probably get away with some hunting. But most animals are very fast, much faster than people, and once injured would do all they could to get the hell away. Imagine chasing down a deer on foot! Nearly impossible. Yet some prehistoric humans would likely have been quite capable of it... if that was what they were focused on developing skills in, tracking, chasing, knowing where the animals would likely head towards, etc...
Understand that the option is intended to reinforce the need for units to do what they are meant to do and to reduce their abilities to fill the roles of other unit types.
Another example, a unit type that's VERY good at pursuit is a canine. However, when on Size Matters, canines are not nearly so strong. So they aren't great at taking the brunt of a combat with a unit but if a unit is injured and on the run, sending in canines can be extremely effective, even if the target is very good at withdrawal.
The point of the dynamic is to make hunting feel like it really should. If you're a group of guys on foot wielding spiked clubs, you're probably pretty tough BUT are you fast enough to take down most types of animals? If the animals are aggressive and the type to engage you in close combat quite willingly, even after taking injuries, then sure, you could probably get away with some hunting. But most animals are very fast, much faster than people, and once injured would do all they could to get the hell away. Imagine chasing down a deer on foot! Nearly impossible. Yet some prehistoric humans would likely have been quite capable of it... if that was what they were focused on developing skills in, tracking, chasing, knowing where the animals would likely head towards, etc...
Understand that the option is intended to reinforce the need for units to do what they are meant to do and to reduce their abilities to fill the roles of other unit types.
Another example, a unit type that's VERY good at pursuit is a canine. However, when on Size Matters, canines are not nearly so strong. So they aren't great at taking the brunt of a combat with a unit but if a unit is injured and on the run, sending in canines can be extremely effective, even if the target is very good at withdrawal.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
T-brd,
This is all out of Pit2015's scenario where you start it with 2 spiked club and 1 reg. clubman.
I have my 1st Tracker in the build que but won't have him for another 50+ turns. I've already played over 400+ turns and this is were these numbers are coming from. Imho on Eternity gamespeed 6 turns of pursuit/withdrawal is too much.
JosEPh
This is all out of Pit2015's scenario where you start it with 2 spiked club and 1 reg. clubman.
I have my 1st Tracker in the build que but won't have him for another 50+ turns. I've already played over 400+ turns and this is were these numbers are coming from. Imho on Eternity gamespeed 6 turns of pursuit/withdrawal is too much.
JosEPh
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
I play Snail and as I said I see it once or twice in a game. Although in my latest game I have not yet. Four turns was the maximum.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
What seems too much to me in this is that the animal keeps coming back for more. If they are an animal likely to flee, why they attack at all is what I find problematic. Would love do see them 'learn' not to attack, at least not the unit they keep fleeing from.
Also, I get your point about the amount of time its taking to build units - does make it hard to get the unit types out there that would actually be useful for this. Starting with spkd club seems like starting way too far ahead of the prehistoric start as it is though.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
With Pit's scenario, for me, FoF just doesn't fit Eternity gamespeed.
I've spent 10 hours on this Scenario and have made it past 800+ turns. With the FoF the turns don't automatically keep going if the animals retreat/withdraw. So it's click-process-click. When no animals are around and the 3 units I'm using to subdue/kill wild animals are all stationed on forested hills, then the Automated turns will kick in. But still 10 hours of doing next to nothing is not my way of having Fun with C2C. And just leaves an even more bitter taste in my mouth over Eternity game speed. It's very hard for me to believe that players actually like this plodding, click turn click type of play. But that's another discussion.
JosEPh
I've spent 10 hours on this Scenario and have made it past 800+ turns. With the FoF the turns don't automatically keep going if the animals retreat/withdraw. So it's click-process-click. When no animals are around and the 3 units I'm using to subdue/kill wild animals are all stationed on forested hills, then the Automated turns will kick in. But still 10 hours of doing next to nothing is not my way of having Fun with C2C. And just leaves an even more bitter taste in my mouth over Eternity game speed. It's very hard for me to believe that players actually like this plodding, click turn click type of play. But that's another discussion.
JosEPh
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