C2C - Tips and Tricks

[Sgtslick]

Im not sure of the mechanics of the game - isn't it possible to just change the minimum length of trades? I guess some kind of penalty or attitude penalty could work as like a work around, be much more neat if it just scaled according to the game speed.
As i said tho - im no programmer

 

[Koshling]

Im not sure of the mechanics of the game - isn't it possible to just change the minimum length of trades? I guess some kind of penalty or attitude penalty could work as like a work around, be much more neat if it just scaled according to the game speed.
As i said tho - im no programmer

Scaling it to game speed is easy, an dis already on the to-do list, but it doesn't really solve the problem. You can still just cancel and exploit by retarding the same trade again every N turns rather than every 10 (where N depends on game speed), which is why I was ALSO suggesting some mechanics changes to make it a less attractive option to do that.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

In Civ IV they removed the default length of a trade agreement. In Civ III and Civ V all agreements are for only 10 turns. This was put into C2C (via RoM or AND). So no one is canceling the agreement they are just running out.

 

[Koshling]

In Civ IV they removed the default length of a trade agreement. In Civ III and Civ V all agreements are for only 10 turns. This was put into C2C (via RoM or AND). So no one is canceling the agreement they are just running out.

In that case surely they should just run out automatically so you have to renegotiate as a matter of course. Otherwise you give a (significant as has been pointed out) advantage to tedious micro-management where you try to end every agreement every turn in order to redo it and get more gold (at least for certain types of agreement).

 

[Sgtslick]

If I gift you horses it will stay until the end of the game unless you or I stop it or our trade network is broken.
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Although it is possible to still cancel trades after (such and such) number of turns koshling, thats fine in my eyes. The problem is the length of time. 10 turns on marathon is way too fast to be able to get a fresh tech and some goodies for those horses ^^;

30 turns seems alot more reasonable to me.

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while im on the subject, with advanced diplomacy- the units are out of whack.
Worker units are valued too highly by AI. Like I can sell 2 pack mules and maybe $120 for guild tech. I think they value a donkey mule dude at like $5-600, u can sell them outright too and just build another one in 2 turns.

The other thing is seige units this is bad.
I can trade 1 average tech and get like 10 falconer units and some heavy cannons and some galleons all with 3 promotions on them. Totally unfair for AI.
I have to turn military trading off coz of this.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

In that case surely they should just run out automatically so you have to renegotiate as a matter of course. Otherwise you give a (significant as has been pointed out) advantage to tedious micro-management where you try to end every agreement every turn in order to redo it and get more gold (at least for certain types of agreement).

The problem is that they run out at all. This is not Civ IV default behaiour. Yes if a lump sum of money is involved it should be for a limited time but if it is a resource for a resource it should be forever or until one party decides to end it. Resources being lost or going obsolete would also end the trade. That is Civ IV default behaviour.

 

[Sgtslick]

The thing is dancing the AI fukn LOOOOVES strategic resources. I offer Iron, they jizz in there pants and give me 2 techs 1k gold and 6 resources. Then I can just cancel that trade in 10 turns, and do it again.
Its a game breaking exploit.

 

[Koshling]

The thing is dancing the AI fukn LOOOOVES strategic resources. I offer Iron, they jizz in there pants and give me 2 techs 1k gold and 6 resources. Then I can just cancel that trade in 10 turns, and do it again.
Its a game breaking exploit.

Well, I think we're all agreed that it should scale with game speed, so I will do that in the next few days.

I might also tweak the AI valuation routine a bit too, but that can be done later.

 

[BlueGenie]

The problem is that they run out at all. This is not Civ IV default behaiour. Yes if a lump sum of money is involved it should be for a limited time but if it is a resource for a resource it should be forever or until one party decides to end it. Resources being lost or going obsolete would also end the trade. That is Civ IV default behaviour.

I feel obliged to point out that trades don't "run out" in C2C, they last until canceled somehow (war dec, lost resource, manually canceled, or any other way), regardless of what was used to gain the trade.

Cheers

 

[Pohlmann]

If i may ask a question:

What's a good way to find out which units/buildings get unlocked with a certain culture?

e.g. maori doesnt have a backwards reference to which units it unlocks and i have yet to find out which unit becomes available

 

[Hydromancerx]

If i may ask a question:

What's a good way to find out which units/buildings get unlocked with a certain culture?

e.g. maori doesnt have a backwards reference to which units it unlocks and i have yet to find out which unit becomes available

Go to the resource list. Look for the flag icons. Unlike say the wonders, the resources are not grouped, but they are in alphabetical order.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I felt stupid for not knowing this but apparently if take over another city, you can stop the disorder instantly by using a storyteller on the city. This also seems to work if you have disorder in your city from revolution instability.

 

[Sgtslick]

cool nice tip thx, does this also work for slave revolts when running slavery?

 

[Sgtslick]

cool nice tip thx, does this also work for slave revolts when running slavery? -1 pop when your running slavery is a pretty severe negative random event.

 

[BlueGenie]

Works in any case you have disorder in a city. If the event only gives -1 pop a Storyteller won't help. If it gives -1 pop and x turns disorder then the Storyteller will help remove the disorder but not get your pop back.

Cheers

 

[DRJ]

If you're early to discover vassalage and little civs with 3 cities or so want to become your vassal to get protection of bigger civs they are at war with, neglect their request but then, when you process your turn you should calculate this: with how many civs is the nation that wants to get my vassal by free will at war with? when you contact them (at least all big ones) are they willing to make peace with the small nation for an outdated tech or some res?

Once you made peace for your soon to be vassal the vassal offer is still there although the nation is in no war anymore, so you can get a vassal without much problems to run into (especially when being pacifistic).

One hint last but not least: I made peace with all big nations as described above but 1 war was still open with my new vassal: when I accepted their vassal request finally, I also put "make peace with XY" on the table and put some gold for them to agree with it.

When they accepted they as my vassal had peace but not me (strange as vassals only have same war/peace status as their masters, usually), so, next time do it the other way round - either ask the war civ seperately or suggest the "make peace with..." request first, I mean above the "become vassal".

Of course this strategy doesnt work all the time you need some assets to do so but you can get vassals without having to have a war after all, just to tell you...

 

[AIAndy]

Works in any case you have disorder in a city. If the event only gives -1 pop a Storyteller won't help. If it gives -1 pop and x turns disorder then the Storyteller will help remove the disorder but not get your pop back.

Cheers

I wonder if instead of a full disorder removal a Storyteller should only reduce the time the disorder will last.

 

[Sgtslick]

Works in any case you have disorder in a city. If the event only gives -1 pop a Storyteller won't help. If it gives -1 pop and x turns disorder then the Storyteller will help remove the disorder but not get your pop back.

Cheers

The random event gives you a choice, endure the slave riot, hope it ends soon.. or end it now -1 pop, 1 turn disorder -1 happy. If story teller works, you can just endure it then put your story teller in, and you avoid the -1 pop. This is what I meant.

 

[BlueGenie]

It's the popping of culture that does it. A Great Bard can do it too though I suppose that one would be alright to have remove the disorder completely.

Seems to me Sgtslick that you should keep a storyteller in every city while running Slavery. I don't run Slavery myself so have never had that event and thus didn't know about it.
The "tip" here would then be to keep enough storytellers on hand while in Slavery that you can get one to any town and add culture the same turn in case you get a slave revolt.

Cheers

 

[AIAndy]

It's the popping of culture that does it. A Great Bard can do it too though I suppose that one would be alright to have remove the disorder completely.

Both Great Bard and Storyteller use the Great Work mechanic. That mechanic is specifically coded to set the occuptation/disorder timer to 0. The AI does not seem to consider that at all. It only uses cultural pressure to determine where to use it which is fine for Great Bard but Storyteller usage is somewhat different.

So I wonder if effect of disorder ending should be removed from the mechanic.