C2C - UEM - Ultimate-Earth-Map 100% MOD and SVN update compatible by Pit2015

[Pit2015]

Mega Update request!!!
We have Real Space Multi-Maps now!!!
So, @Pit2015, please, UPDATE your Earth map to be WITHOUT Space (now redundant, loool)!!!
YESSS!!!

Nice, how will multimap work exactly now? Explain in more detail... so i can plan a update.

I will also look into asap myself if i got some time, how to set up a scenario and add more lets say space and planet maps to the main scenario? Or only one mainmap + one space map with space+planets is possible now?

It's ALIIIVE!!! Multi-Maps is a GO!!!

It seems my previous frustration was simply caused by me failing to correctly update the SVN, dammit. Now it's fixed, though. And thus, I started a random map, gave myself ALL TECH, gave myself a few random Space Units... And. Here. We. ARE!!! It WORKS! At least in the sense that you actually...

forums.civfanatics.com

 

[Somebody613]

Nice, how will multimap work exactly now? Explain in more detail... so i can plan a update.

I will also look into asap myself if i got some time, how to set up a scenario and add more lets say space and planet maps to the main scenario? Or only one mainmap + one space map with space+planets is possible now?

It's ALIIIVE!!! Multi-Maps is a GO!!!

It seems my previous frustration was simply caused by me failing to correctly update the SVN, dammit. Now it's fixed, though. And thus, I started a random map, gave myself ALL TECH, gave myself a few random Space Units... And. Here. We. ARE!!! It WORKS! At least in the sense that you actually...

forums.civfanatics.com

That's precisely the OTHER way around:
All we need, is an Earth map WITHOUT Space, because now Multi-maps add Space via some in-game mumbo-jumbo (most probably using the premade maps in the Multi-Maps folder, lol).
So you need to simply erase all the Space from your map (yeah, super tedious, because you need t edit over 200 lines of text, I know, lol.), then adjust your map's size (X/Y) accordingly.

 

[Pit2015]

That's precisely the OTHER way around:
All we need, is an Earth map WITHOUT Space, because now Multi-maps add Space via some in-game mumbo-jumbo (most probably using the premade maps in the Multi-Maps folder, lol).
So you need to simply erase all the Space from your map (yeah, super tedious, because you need t edit over 200 lines of text, I know, lol.), then adjust your map's size (X/Y) accordingly.

I will use this opertunity to expand the UEM map a bit to the north, so spitzbergen, greenland, canada, alaska and russia can get a better size to the north and the arctic ocean can be added better with the isles and so on.

And sounds like the space maps can be edited also, so later there can be done planet and space maps and so on i think.

 

[Somebody613]

I will use this opertunity to expand the UEM map a bit to the north, so spitzbergen, greenland, canada, alaska and russia can get a better size to the north and the north polar ocean can be added better with the isles and so on.

If you want so. The point is that now you can eliminate the Space part, because it's added in-game in another game.
You still should keep the old map for those who would get MAFs because of the new system, though, since I haven't tested it THAT much yet.

 

[Pit2015]

Yes i keep the older versions online as usual.

 

[Osk21]

Still on King Solomon which like much Better than my George Washington Game and we should text in German or Deutsch sometime but I am RUSTY compared to when I was in EUROPE last in 1992 but 3 of my Grandparents told me that German or Allemagne was a Good Language to Learn and Use!!!

 

[Osk21]

New Save

 

[Thunderbrd]

"Why not turn ALL variables into Double, I really don't understand?"

Great question to help illuminate what we constantly deal with.

As we have a memory limit thanks to the game platform we work on, we don't want to make every variable a double because doubles set aside more memory, twice as much, as an int. So if integers don't ever get so high as to require to be doubles, then we're wasting TONS of memory in nickel and diming ourselves and our memory limits to death.

Memory allocation errors, MAFs, are actually what happen when the game runs OUT of memory, and Stack Overflow errors are what happens when we overload Ints - and it's not hard to overload doubles if you're going at such a pace to overload ints either, at which point then we would need to have multiple ints or longs to manage building out structures that condense those int values into more manageable pieces like we were doing for a while with Greater Gold counters. We may yet have to scale by going back to some of that and this sort of thing gets very complicated to manage in the coding we have.

Stack Overflows tend to lead to what looks like absolutely random numbers after you reach a particular point, which is due to the way the binary math is interpreted when it goes past the count limit.

MAFs just shut down the game completely.

Only way to deal with MAFs is to figure out how to condense and use information all across the system in more efficient ways. This is how our moon landers were able to get so much done on computers the size of modern calculators, grand efficiency perfection. We're a bit sloppy with math here and we save and store a lot we may not need to but there are numerous ways to build data models and the original methods firaxis used were simple, fast, and heavily inefficient and the ways we're doing most of it now is much more efficient, perhaps even faster, more code laborious, and certainly more complex, as well as more modern and some of it wasn't even possible when CivIV was created.

Still, we deal with HUGEly constraining limits and a desperately chaotic overall program design, much of which was modded to work with the original way things were setup when we should perhaps have just re-designed from the basis of the initial setup.

Much of the work going on in the last few years, discussed more on discord, has been to try to de-chaos the entire program. However, this has not been easy due to the way the exe calls the shots as the core of the program that is a little black box we don't have much visibility into.

Therefore, those who are most intense on taking what little time they have to invest into c2c have gone back and forth a lot on whether they want to keep fighting the giant this thing is, or starting from scratch. There's been significant progress on both sides but starting from scratch is terribly daunting and we know there would be many mistakes and backtracking along that road as well.

 

[Osk21]

Good Idea!!!

 

[Somebody613]

@Thunderbrd
I also gave an alternative idea (since my complaint was mostly about Gold): Use Copper/Silver/Gold/etc. "coins" there, like a lot of RPG games do.
This way, you can have 1 Gold coin representing 1 million of Copper coins, yet be a variable that doesn't eat up "1 million of memory".
Heck, it's customary for such games to go by "x1000" multipliers, so you can cover a billion (2^30) via 3 smaller thousand-coins (3 sets of 2^10, aka 2^12), and so on.
And what's funnier, "coin types" would be a VERY "Civ"-style mechanic all along - it's certainly more "realistic" than "billions of gold pieces" that is the current mode.
Technically, this can be applied to any "resource that piles up", you just need to invent funny appropriate monikers for those.
Unless I'm missing something very important here mathematically, this'd be both a relatively easy solution, a nicely looking solution, and you actually HAD this before with "total culture".
I definitely recall that there was a "second coin stat" there, that started after reaching either a million or a billion of "total culture".
To sum up, you can easily expand the "upper limit" of every variable without actually increasing the variable (if not outright reducing it in some cases).
Why do *I* need to tell you this, huh?
Or tell me where I'm wrong, because I certainly don't SEE it.

 

[tmv]

@Somebody613 If you do that, you have to rewrite all arithmetic rules for this. All values can go up or down, with both larger and smaller type, and if you have anything working with a certain percentage of your absolute value, you are in for a nightmare.

 

[Somebody613]

@Somebody613 If you do that, you have to rewrite all arithmetic rules for this. All values can go up or down, with both larger and smaller type, and if you have anything working with a certain percentage of your absolute value, you are in for a nightmare.

Not if you make separate civics (and rules) for different types of coins.
It may sound weird, but there could even be "realistic" justification for this.
It does add additional math procedures, but it wouldn't have to recalculate BETWEEN coin types, merely calculating each of them separately.
Justification? Well, "I said so", lol.
OR!!!
Make that switch non-automatic, lol.
Like, when you have *one* BILLION copper coins, you are asked each turn to "buy silver coins now (be it 1/1mil or 1/1k), or soon you will start losing your surplus".
That is, when your copper coins reach *two* billion and change (the point of almost going into OVERFLOW), your value is forcibly CUT at, say, exactly 2.000.000.000.
Basically, "if (value > 2bil) then (value == 2bil)".
I don't know the actual programming language of Civ, but in any others it's really simple to implement.
And since you WILL be losing coins that way, you'd be game-pressed to actually BUY "better coins", thus automatically resetting the "cheaper coins" to very low (manageable) values.
Rinse-repeat for each coin type (I never said it can only be 3 levels), you get it.

 

[Thunderbrd]

@Thunderbrd
I also gave an alternative idea (since my complaint was mostly about Gold): Use Copper/Silver/Gold/etc. "coins" there, like a lot of RPG games do.
This way, you can have 1 Gold coin representing 1 million of Copper coins, yet be a variable that doesn't eat up "1 million of memory".
Heck, it's customary for such games to go by "x1000" multipliers, so you can cover a billion (2^30) via 3 smaller thousand-coins (3 sets of 2^10, aka 2^12), and so on.
And what's funnier, "coin types" would be a VERY "Civ"-style mechanic all along - it's certainly more "realistic" than "billions of gold pieces" that is the current mode.
Technically, this can be applied to any "resource that piles up", you just need to invent funny appropriate monikers for those.
Unless I'm missing something very important here mathematically, this'd be both a relatively easy solution, a nicely looking solution, and you actually HAD this before with "total culture".
I definitely recall that there was a "second coin stat" there, that started after reaching either a million or a billion of "total culture".
To sum up, you can easily expand the "upper limit" of every variable without actually increasing the variable (if not outright reducing it in some cases).
Why do *I* need to tell you this, huh?
Or tell me where I'm wrong, because I certainly don't SEE it.

I set exactly this up and the more advanced programmers thought it would be preferable to go and remove the functioning model and replace with longs as if we're going to always be able to stick to that limit alone. Yes, they had me that the longs could handle things for now out to where we are but as I pointed out, I had done it to give us a foothold on replicating the whole concept for other values. Anyhow, in the long run I'm sure that the incredible degree of scaling we'll have to do with multimap implementation and how it will eventually go where ultra modern huge ass earth cities become grains of sand in the larger economy that's a collection of desert planets, longs will be so dwarfed that we'll need longs of longs of longs of longs of longs and so on. Anyhow, we'll eventually get back there. That said, overflow limits VS total limits is the bigger challenge factor.

 

[Somebody613]

I set exactly this up and the more advanced programmers thought it would be preferable to go and remove the functioning model and replace with longs as if we're going to always be able to stick to that limit alone. Yes, they had me that the longs could handle things for now out to where we are but as I pointed out, I had done it to give us a foothold on replicating the whole concept for other values. Anyhow, in the long run I'm sure that the incredible degree of scaling we'll have to do with multimap implementation and how it will eventually go where ultra modern huge ass earth cities become grains of sand in the larger economy that's a collection of desert planets, longs will be so dwarfed that we'll need longs of longs of longs of longs of longs and so on. Anyhow, we'll eventually get back there. That said, overflow limits VS total limits is the bigger challenge factor.

I can't say anything much about other accumulations, but money absolutely definitely fits the "coin types" concept, so it can and should be "type-fied" eventually.
And as of limits, unless I'm totally stupid, the smaller you make a "coin type" size, the more "coin types" you will be able to fit into the same amount of actual memory.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I can't say anything much about other accumulations, but money absolutely definitely fits the "coin types" concept, so it can and should be "type-fied" eventually.
And as of limits, unless I'm totally stupid, the smaller you make a "coin type" size, the more "coin types" you will be able to fit into the same amount of actual memory.

The game can never really forget how granular it ever was before because once you set aside a space for information, you've set that space aside for the whole game. I could get into why... but I'd rather do the work I need to do today.

 

[Somebody613]

The game can never really forget how granular it ever was before because once you set aside a space for information, you've set that space aside for the whole game. I could get into why... but I'd rather do the work I need to do today.

Sorry, though I can't physically force you to keep posting here... CAN I?

 

[Osk21]

MSN

 

[Osk21]

latest Solomon Game!

 

[Pit2015]

If you know this sound you can kill the MAFs.

 

[Osk21]

ok I will try that later my Friend!!! Sounds Great! this is my latest UEM King Soloman UEM!!