C2C - UEM - Ultimate-Earth-Map 100% MOD and SVN update compatible by Pit2015

[Pit2015]

Last minute change - I re-uploaded version 2.4 re-download this version i added a new main feature to the scenario:

New Main Feature added to UEM 2.4, there is now a north polar ocean passage arround the globe now, so ships can go arround the world this north route. But beware its blocked by polar ocean sometimes, so the early ships cant get thrue this route, only ships that able to enter high sees may go thrue this route. Or you need to get the astronomy tech to make your ships cable entering polar ocean. So for early contacts like the vikings reached amerika you still have to go the long costal ways arround the world, that may require "Right of way" wars if some other civ blocks your way with a city until you get high see ships that can leave the costal waters. Interesting strategies to play out here now. Also you can hide your submarines under the polar ice to intercept your enemys north polar route.

Good to go now for a new game, no more changes in the next days/weeks.

Added a new preview picture of version 2.4 to the first posting.

-Pit 2015

 

[JosEPh_II]

I have started your scenario. I'm at turn 301 as Washington of USA. My crime has never gotten over 75 and is now at -79 with just Tribal Guardian and Alpha male. I did take a Great general and attached it to the Tribal Guardian to give it the next level of Crime Fighting promotion, plus Combat1 and other useful promos. TG was attacked once by Neanderthal as both Spiked club were out "hunting". Lost Clubman to exploration. Of course having these extra units at game start is part of the reason you have a -5 /turn at 100% research rate to start the scenario with.

Suggestions so far:
1. Do not use Adv Economy Option. It has known problems
2. City Minimum Border and Realistic Culture Spread negates any Civ from causing an adjacent AI city to "flip" to the superior cultured Civ. Don't use either at all. You will have better gameplay without them. Having them both on actually makes your scenario easier.
3.FoF, with the current state of Subdued animals and the length of time to subdue a wild animal this Option is tedious and boring. 6 turns of chasing or defending before a kill or subdue is tiring to say the least.
4. Inquisitions, Divine Prophets, Choose religions, and Multiple Religion Spread do not fit well with each other. One gives, another takes away, one is a visual reminder with little gameplay worth and the other the AI has a tendency to use the GP for other things besides founding a Civ's favorite religion.
5. Upgraded Bldg and Unit cost, while good for mid and late game, not good for early (see opening statements).

After playing 301 turns in approximately 4 hours most of it was just click turn click turn, or watch the running man cycle thru turns. Your scenario would benefit Greatly by being on Snail or Marathon vs Eternity. Even Eons would reduce the tedium by 20%.

And a good thing, you moved getting tribes back to Tribalism.

More observations: @37960BC (301 turns) my Gold sits at 19760. I'm currently researching Piercing (15 turns to go).

I will spend a few more hours on it to see if it picks up just to give you more feedback.

JosEPh

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

2. City Minimum Border and Realistic Culture Spread negates any Civ from causing an adjacent AI city to "flip" to the superior cultured Civ. Don't use either at all. You will have better gameplay without them. Having them both on actually makes your scenario easier.

Yes.

Realistic Culture Spread negates any Civ from causing an adjacent AI city to "flip" to the superior cultured Civ.

Not true. I play with this on and cities flip! As far as I know it is "only" about how fast culture spreads to plots and this only affects unowned plots. That is not owned by anybody.

Not having it on makes the game much easier as city culture spreads evenly and far further with it off.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Originally Posted by JosEPh_II View Post
Realistic Culture Spread negates any Civ from causing an adjacent AI city to "flip" to the superior cultured Civ.

Not true. I play with this on and cities flip! As far as I know it is "only" about how fast culture spreads to plots and this only affects unowned plots. That is not owned by anybody.

Not having it on makes the game much easier as city culture spreads evenly and far further with it off.

Which in turn Aids in getting adjacent AI cities to Flip from Culture. Realistic takes Much longer with many more NW and WW to aid it along. Does it not?

JosEPh


__________________

 

[Thunderbrd]

I've done some interesting things to improve the likelihood of cities being vulnerable to cultural flipping but I also found that the option that enforces that cities have a minimum of 1 owned tile around them will inhibit all possibility of cultural revolt. Realistic culture spread doesn't create a problem there. (I'm glad of this.)

 

[Pit2015]

I have started your scenario. I'm at turn 301 as Washington of USA. My crime has never gotten over 75 and is now at -79 with just Tribal Guardian and Alpha male. I did take a Great general and attached it to the Tribal Guardian to give it the next level of Crime Fighting promotion, plus Combat1 and other useful promos. TG was attacked once by Neanderthal as both Spiked club were out "hunting". Lost Clubman to exploration. Of course having these extra units at game start is part of the reason you have a -5 /turn at 100% research rate to start the scenario with.

Suggestions so far:
1. Do not use Adv Economy Option. It has known problems
2. City Minimum Border and Realistic Culture Spread negates any Civ from causing an adjacent AI city to "flip" to the superior cultured Civ. Don't use either at all. You will have better gameplay without them. Having them both on actually makes your scenario easier.
3.FoF, with the current state of Subdued animals and the length of time to subdue a wild animal this Option is tedious and boring. 6 turns of chasing or defending before a kill or subdue is tiring to say the least.
4. Inquisitions, Divine Prophets, Choose religions, and Multiple Religion Spread do not fit well with each other. One gives, another takes away, one is a visual reminder with little gameplay worth and the other the AI has a tendency to use the GP for other things besides founding a Civ's favorite religion.
5. Upgraded Bldg and Unit cost, while good for mid and late game, not good for early (see opening statements).

After playing 301 turns in approximately 4 hours most of it was just click turn click turn, or watch the running man cycle thru turns. Your scenario would benefit Greatly by being on Snail or Marathon vs Eternity. Even Eons would reduce the tedium by 20%.

And a good thing, you moved getting tribes back to Tribalism.

More observations: @37960BC (301 turns) my Gold sits at 19760. I'm currently researching Piercing (15 turns to go).

I will spend a few more hours on it to see if it picks up just to give you more feedback.

JosEPh

Ok thanx for you support.

"After playing 301 turns in approximately 4 hours most of it was just click turn click turn, or watch the running man cycle thru turns. Your scenario would benefit Greatly by being on Snail or Marathon vs Eternity. Even Eons would reduce the tedium by 20%."

Thats ok, the benefits from eternity speed is to high to get it down to a faster game speed, after 500-1000 turns when you expand that will be better, then the turns start to go longer and at the start turns you can go explore and do other things, it turns within 10-20 seconds, so in eternity you get the techs slower whats improtant on this large map and later with large civs and in eternity speed it takes longer to build buildings and build units, it realy hurts you when you loos a unit, takes a long time to replace it. Also you dont get new units fast, you need to use the units you have a long time, and so techs are realy precious now. Also expirience is more important now, expirienced units are worth mutvh now and a loos of a expirieced unit is hard to replace. With all these +% worker speed upgrades with the work faster techs, the workers will do a fast job after 500-1000 turns. So eternity makes the game harder, so i will let it stay on eternity when no big bugs occure on this speed. Scenario should be ultimate hard. If you got any idears to make it harder let me know.

"1. Do not use Adv Economy Option. It has known problems"

Ok i will remove that in 2.5 then, you know wich problems it has?

"2. City Minimum Border and Realistic Culture Spread negates any Civ from causing an adjacent AI city to "flip" to the superior cultured Civ. Don't use either at all. You will have better gameplay without them. Having them both on actually makes your scenario easier."

So when Realistic Culture Spread is no problem we can keep it in the scenario, City Minimum Border is then no problem also right? Or is it makeing the game more easy? Is City minimum border makeing the cultural flip of a city impossible?

"3.FoF, with the current state of Subdued animals and the length of time to subdue a wild animal this Option is tedious and boring. 6 turns of chasing or defending before a kill or subdue is tiring to say the least."

Yep thats cool, its hard now to get animals subdued, you have to game good. And after you get some expirienced hunters it will become better, so its important to try to get hunting early now. More easy will meen more fast myth to the player and so the AI will fall back even more because you can hunt more effectivly then the AI and get more myths faster then the AI and get so more research points faster then the AI.

"4. Inquisitions, Divine Prophets, Choose religions, and Multiple Religion Spread do not fit well with each other. One gives, another takes away, one is a visual reminder with little gameplay worth and the other the AI has a tendency to use the GP for other things besides founding a Civ's favorite religion."

Yes, i think about these also, so when the AI gets a great prophet they will create religions, thats no problem. But when i turn off choose religions then you get the religion by the tech and when i am as player always ahead of the AI with my research i may get all religions before the AI and they will get none, so the AI is creating GPs fast, and they use it for founding religions, that works. But i want that there can be multi religions in a city and i want that the player and AI can kill non state religions in there citys if they want. So inquisitions are needed right? Divne prophets needed to choose religion. Multiple religions spread needed to have more then one religion in the city? So all three needed or? So any sugesstion on this?

"5. Upgraded Bldg and Unit cost, while good for mid and late game, not good for early (see opening statements)."

Thats ok and needed to make the game harder, otherwise it dont hurts you enouth when you loos something and to fast building meens to fast research and to fast technologys.

"I have started your scenario. I'm at turn 301 as Washington of USA. My crime has never gotten over 75 and is now at -79 with just Tribal Guardian and Alpha male. I did take a Great general and attached it to the Tribal Guardian to give it the next level of Crime Fighting promotion, plus Combat1 and other useful promos. TG was attacked once by Neanderthal as both Spiked club were out "hunting". Lost Clubman to exploration. Of course having these extra units at game start is part of the reason you have a -5 /turn at 100% research rate to start the scenario with."

Yep, crime looks to work very good now, go to worldbuilder after your next 300 turns place a agend and speacial agend on all capital citys of all AI players, then close WB again and look into the other AI civs citys, then you can see if the crime still works for the AI, so maybe you can see other problems there then also after your 600 turns? Cool idear with the general, but the AI will not do this i think. But i will try by myself, good strategy. Yeah on this large map are alot of animals, so better dont go hunting alone. Gold works better now also, but i will keep 20000 start gold, makes sure the AI will not run out of gold before they can generate enouth on eternity speed. Little bonus to the AI is ok.

 

[JosEPh_II]

So when Realistic Culture Spread is no problem we can keep it in the scenario, City Minimum Border is then no problem also right? Or is it makeing the game more easy? Is City minimum border makeing the cultural flip of a city impossible?

Minimum City Border On will Stop all City flipping from Culture. If you Want City Flipping by Culture then this Must be turned Off (not checked).

As for making the scenario harder that is a matter of perspective and I can see we don't share the same view. What I posted imho would make the scenario harder not easier. But I can see that you have fallen in love with eternity, even though at the very least Eon or Snail would serve your scenario better. Again imho.

I have multiple saves up to turn 800 or so. If you want to see any of them say so and I will Upload one or 2 for you.

JosEPh

 

[Pit2015]

I told you the benefits from eternity. Yes pump up the latest turn save please.

So whats with 4. religions? Ok to have for this way all 3 on or better turn of one?

"4. Inquisitions, Divine Prophets, Choose religions, and Multiple Religion Spread do not fit well with each other. One gives, another takes away, one is a visual reminder with little gameplay worth and the other the AI has a tendency to use the GP for other things besides founding a Civ's favorite religion."

"Yes, i think about these also, so when the AI gets a great prophet they will create religions, thats no problem. But when i turn off choose religions then you get the religion by the tech and when i am as player always ahead of the AI with my research i may get all religions before the AI and they will get none, so the AI is creating GPs fast, and they use it for founding religions, that works. But i want that there can be multi religions in a city and i want that the player and AI can kill non state religions in there citys if they want. So inquisitions are needed right? Divne prophets needed to choose religion. Multiple religions spread needed to have more then one religion in the city? So all three needed or? So any sugesstion on this?"

"Minimum City Border On will Stop all City flipping from Culture. If you Want City Flipping by Culture then this Must be turned Off (not checked)."

Is there something the player or the AI can do against a culture flip of the city? Always played without it... so if it makes things harder i will turn the minimal city borders off.

 

[Pit2015]

Ok i started work on UEM Version 2.5, things i need to know asap:

Things i need to know for UEM Version 2.5:

Why all dormant volcanos that i added are now invisible or removed if i get into the WB after starting a game? Bug? (After no turn they are displayed in WB)

Should i place helium 3 on the map or is that only for the moon?

Is it in C2C possible to mine natural gas in the ocean or cost terrain? With a drilling rig? Or only oil? So if possible i will add natural gas to the ocean. Is it possible to place drilling rigs to ocean plots in C2C that are not near a city? Without the need to be in city borders? If not we need something like this, then i will add oil and natural gas fields to the ocean so like if you place a ocean drilling rig/platform that it will give the bonus to the neares city and creates a zone of owned territory? Possible to mod that? So i see now that natural gas has a bonus with offshore platform, so it should be ok to place gas fields on land and in the ocean, but is it possible to mine these without a city? So i will place more oil and gas fields into the oceans... if it will work only for the cost with a city then i will place them only by the cost. We need something to explore and get the resources from the ocean without citys...

Is there a tech that allows under water city building in ocean plots? If so wich resources should be added to the oceans?

Quantonium Crystals are on map, is that ok?

Carbon Dioxide Ice is on map, is that ok?

Methane Ice is only in ocean plots actually, is it ok or can it be placed on land also?

Also there is a important future earth resource missing in C2C the Manganknollen/manganese nodules think about to add them for ocean exploartion and resources...
Manganese is in game already? Is manganese ore right not the manganese nodules that you find on the ocean ground? Manganese is a land resource or a ocean resource currently? If land there should be added a new manganese nodules resource for the ocean plots...

 

[Faustmouse]

He3 is only for the moon.

There are no underwater cities (yet).

Oil rigs that are far away from a city should give a ZoC IMO. If they don't, this would be an easy "fix", so I'd recommend put oil in the middle of the ocean, too, if appropiate.

 

[Pit2015]

Yes i will add oil fields to the oceans, natural gas can be mined with the offshore platform/rig also. Then i add also natural gas fields to the ocean plots... but...

Ok i testet the oil and gas in ocean plots far away from citys, i gave the required techs and placed a offshore platform onto a natural gas and a oil resource, but look the screenshots, also i added the territory, how will the oil and gas come to the city if its far out in the ocean? Do we have something like a pipline? Otherwise we need tankers that can go there and tank these resources, but then we need a storage system because the tanker will not go far to other offshore platforms when he can tank full at the nearest offshore platform. Otherwise to make this work there should be a way to build a offshore main platform as city in the ocean, so some offshore platforms in this ocean offshore city (limited to build only offshore platforms and maybe some special buildings) will create income or something like this... currently i dont see a way to connect oil/gas fields to a city far away... maybe a underwaterpipline that will add some production or something to the city will work, can be build by workboats. But has to give more than only the oil/gas resource to the city, player should benefit from having 5 offshore platforms connected to his city.

Edit: Next problem with far away ocean oil/gas fields, after one turn the territory is ok on the oil platform but is lost on the gas platform, screenshot 2... also it displays "Requires route". Also the natural gas grafic look freaked out after loosing territory.

So i can add gas and oil fields far away out in the oceans, but you have to find a way to make them usable. Tanker system will be cool, but offshore platform should need to reload 20 turns to be able to load a tanker again, when the tanker returns to city than the player should get gold. Makes sense than to have more than 1 offshore platform. But will the AI use its tankers? Will be cool to hunt tankers with submarines. If possible tankers need a unload button, it dont should consume the unit after returning the load to a port city. Also a load button like the red shield will work, so a tanker needs to load 20 turns at a offshore platform, then hes a easy target, also makes sense to have more offshore platforms than one because you can load more tankes in less turns, only one tanker should be able to load at a OSP at the same time.

 

[Pit2015]

C2C - Ultimate Earth Map V2.5 released

Changes in C2C - Ultimate Earth Map V2.5 100% MOD and SVN update compatible:

Changelog Map 2.5
Some more resource balance, some low resources added.
Fixed alot of rivers.
South polar region is now resource rich and expanded now.
Added random oil and natural gas fields to the oceans for future ocean exploration.

New main feature "Hunt for south polar resources" added, the south polar region has many good resources, will you be the first to build a base or south polar station and exploit this resource rich untoutched region?

Changelog Scenario 2.5
Advanced Economy turned off (Known problems)
Minimal City Borders turned off (Prevents city culture fliping)

2.5 map with no preset civs will be released soon. Scenario 2.5 with updated earth map is released now. Play the scenario in deity and with eternity speed and with the preset options if you want a working and real challenging game. Try to rule or survive the planet earth.

Added new preview picture to the first posting.

Scenario should be good for a long game now, please report all problems if you still find any.

-Pit2015

 

[JosEPh_II]

@Pit,
Here is my last turn. Hope it helps you out.

You do have a few "minor" map glitches around Washington DC, like rivers that empty into a grassland tile instead of a lake or ocean. But other than that the map is pretty good for an Earth Type map.

EDIT: I also have a game going with your scenario on Marathon speed. I do like how it is progressing. Deganawida declared War on me around turn 220+. Luckily I had gotten Tengri religion before him and had started building Horsemen. By turn 250 the war is going full tilt. he had attacked by new 2nd city and destroyed it. But I had captured a mammoth and had researched Megafauna before him, So now my Mammoth Riders are starting to wreak havoc on his developed tiles around his capital and 2nd city. I replanted a city on the one he had razed and have a 3rd city to the south going too.

If you want I can upload a save from that game as well so you can see how it's playing out on Marathon. You might want to consider putting a marathon version of your scenario out or not.

JosEPh

 

[Pit2015]

@Pit,
Here is my last turn. Hope it helps you out.

You do have a few "minor" map glitches around Washington DC, like rivers that empty into a grassland tile instead of a lake or ocean. But other than that the map is pretty good for an Earth Type map.

EDIT: I also have a game going with your scenario on Marathon speed. I do like how it is progressing. Deganawida declared War on me around turn 220+. Luckily I had gotten Tengri religion before him and had started building Horsemen. By turn 250 the war is going full tilt. he had attacked by new 2nd city and destroyed it. But I had captured a mammoth and had researched Megafauna before him, So now my Mammoth Riders are starting to wreak havoc on his developed tiles around his capital and 2nd city. I replanted a city on the one he had razed and have a 3rd city to the south going too.

If you want I can upload a save from that game as well so you can see how it's playing out on Marathon. You might want to consider putting a marathon version of your scenario out or not.

JosEPh

Rock n Roll Joseph! I will check that save, thanx. Yes upload your marathon game also. So the scenario is available and should work in every game speed, can be selected at starting the scenario, so already available but i really recommend eternity. I told in this threat here alot of benefits, and on this large map the game is harder so and with many citys later you cant rush thrue the techs, you need to use what you get some time. But other game speeds also ok to play in the scenario, so cool when you have fun your way.

The rivers where fixed in the new version 2.5 now.

"I also have a game going with your scenario on Marathon speed. I do like how it is progressing. Deganawida declared War on me around turn 220+."

Thats why i try and work to destroy the native civs as USA early so i have my freedom in north america for a while. But thats not to easy. Maybe i will be able to build up a superpower then this way.

Edit:
Ok i looked into your save, i made all civs visible, here i upload it, download it and look into the other civs, just click on the other civ city to look into the propertys, AI still sucks a bit on crime reducing, but is ok at this state because there no crimes at this time for them, and most civs sucks on education totally! Maybe there has to be done something... gold looks ok now for the AI. AI should build more education buildings.

Also you know only 5% of the map after 874 turns. Man go explore there is a lot to discover... Try field commanders not attaching the general directly to a unit maybe, works good.

 

[Pit2015]

Added new Preview picture to the first posting of UEM-2.5 to match the new C2C art.

 

[lobosan]

Thanks Pit2015 for your C2C UEM map!
I love that you chose a map projection that is closer to equal area.
Any chance it will be included in the C2C SVN repository?

 

[Pit2015]

Thanx, this map was a lot of work. But it was the time worth, with C2C mod its cool. Thunderbrd already suggested to take it on the SVN in the old forum thread of the map, if they want, its ok for me. Until then you have to download here the newest version. Later i will maybe create timeline scenarios with this map.

 

[JosEPh_II]

@Pit,

Here is the Marathon game on v2.4.

JosEPh

 

[Pit2015]

Thanx, ok alot of AI problems at your marathon game speed, like shaka zulu civ has again -118 gold per turn, sitting bull is building log rams like hell also about -50 gold, also crime is hitting hard again all civs, most civs will go bankrupt, you guys have to fix the AI first before i will start a new long game. I made all civs again visible in this savefile, load the attached savegame and look into the citys of the AI civs and look up these problems.

Also every 15 turns you get a new tech that sucks at marathon speed. Also because you can research to fast at marathon the crimes hit hard to early and dont give the AI more time to build buildings and earn more gold, so they will go bankrupt now in 100-200 turns mostly all i think.

 

[JosEPh_II]

If you want the AI to do better turn On Tech Diffusion, turn Off Aggressive AI and Raging Barbarians. Both of these put the AI on a War status and they neglect their Empires to build Armies. They stop the AI from trading which helps their economies and research.

...don't give the AI more time to build buildings and earn more gold, so they will go bankrupt now in 100-200 turns mostly all i think

And 15 turns to discover a tech is Plenty long enough. AI is "weighted" more now than before to build Anti Crime bldgs and units. But then having Aggressive and raging On negates most of that weight.

And Sitting Bull has watched Deganawida be aggressive towards me and neither He or Deganawida have gone bankrupt after 260+ turns. So I think your "I think" is all wet.

JosEPh