C2C - UEM - Ultimate-Earth-Map 100% MOD and SVN update compatible by Pit2015

You can only rush early when you can manage to get neanderthals, otherwise you have no big chance, and mostly the AI will get neanderthals before you, you need to be very good and lucky. Also its very hard with my changes to keep conquered citys it will hit your research hardly because you have to generate fast more gold. And i still will not win the complete game i bet, still to hard, i hopfully can survive. And still same problem, AI will go bankrupt allways with the current settings.

And making the MAX_DISTANCE_CITY_MAINTENANCE is needed because of the different map sizes, if you do that all for one map size then you have a problem with larger maps because civs start more far away from each other. But as said, the gamespeed modifier on slower gamespeeds should be removed for sure.

If the AI conquers only one city on gigantic maps then they will pay -100 gold maintenance and they only gernerate in 1000 turns like 30 gold income. Will still a big problem. Before these changes the mod worked fine with about -5 to -15 gold for far away citys not -96 gold.

Ok enouth facts, look it up and do what you want ist working fine with my changes now for the player and AI. AND ALSO IN LATER GAME THE MAINTENANCE COST IST TO HIGH NOW THIS IS NOT ONLY AFFECTING THE EARLY GAME.

"The AI won't do conquest if they cannot afford the maintenance of another city, they are aware of the cost of cities, if they have too little income they won't do conquest" Then they will never go to conquer on gigantic maps...
 
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And still same problem, AI will go bankrupt allways with the current settings.
The AI does not operate under the same numbers as the human player when you are playing on anything more difficult than Noble level. I'm sure they can handle their second city just fine when you play Deity level and they get that immediate second settler unit.

And making the MAX_DISTANCE_CITY_MAINTENANCE is needed because of the different map sizes, if you do that all for one map size then you have a problem with larger maps because civs start more far away from each other.
This makes no sense. The Distance Maintenance is applied to a city for how far away it is to the capital. The AI are not so stupid as to want to put their second city 10+ spaces away from their capital. This factor is relevant to their selection for a second city site. Additionally, you're talking about a global variable that only adjusts the maximum impact that the distance to city maintenance can have, not the actual impact of each tile's worth of distance. I don't think the AI, on a Noble level set of values concerning the amount of impact the distance to city maintenance will have, will be struggling for any reasonable distance away from capital with their second city if you're granting them one by means of being on deity level. I've been reading numerous other reports coming in saying Deity is nearly unwinnable at the moment. If the AI were struggling with the distance to capital upkeep regarding their second immediate settler, I would think we wouldn't be seeing such reports.

But as said, the gamespeed modifier on slower gamespeeds should be removed for sure.
As discussed, there are numerous factors for consideration here. We are NOT wanting players to be able to ride on 100% research anymore and we're attempting to curtail excesses that stem from having a longer period of time to collect on budget overages on longer gamespeeds. I'm sure Joseph stands ready to adjust these numbers as the pendulum may swing between overly easy gold income and overly difficult gold income. For now, I'd just accept that the longer gamespeeds are going to seem a little harder with gold income management. That may not be a bad thing because you have more room/time to make gold management a bit higher priority in the process without feeling like the game is getting away from you. This can enrich the longer gamespeed experience so there's always a bit more tension in the works.
 
"This makes no sense. The Distance Maintenance is applied to a city for how far away it is to the capital. The AI are not so stupid as to want to put their second city 10+ spaces away from their capital." Makes sense, on larger maps civs are more far away from each other, that meens if the AI civs goes to attack a enemy they may and will conquere citys that are more far away = more maintenance cost for them = AI goes bankrupt. When they settle they will settle close yes, but when they conquer they will go to the next enemy city, and this city is more far away from them on gigantic maps = more maintenance cost for the AI = AI bankrupt. So if the AI pays less maintenance on noble on far distances thats positiv and good, but may still to mutch for them now on gigantic maps with longer distances.

Gamspeed modfier should be same on all gamespeeds, not more maintenance cost for slower gamespeeds, makes really no sense to pay more when you need more time to generate income, you never can go on 100% research all time, to many cost without +90% modifier, then you should make all gamespeeds +90% not only the slow ones. If i build some units and stuff to make war i have to go to 0% research, cost enouth. You dont have more room and time to build, it only takes longer to build stuff, so it takes longer to get more gold, faster gamespeeds = more gold in shorter time, so why pay more on gamespeeds where it takes longer to get more income, has to switch like slower gamespeed = less maintenance cost, faster gamespeed = more maintenance cost... why? Because you can create more income in less time on the faster gamespeeds. Otherwise faster gamespeeds get more gold and slower dont get more gold but more maintenance cost. So faster gamespeeds = enouth gold and slower gamespeed not enouth gold to pay maintenances. = Faster gamespeed may work, slower gamespeeds will not work.

Current setting:
Faster gamespeed = Many gold in short time + only +20% gamespeed maintenance/cost modifier.
Slower gamespeeds = Less gold in same time +90% gamespeed maintenance/cost modifier.

Should be this setting:
Faster gamespeed = Many gold in short time + +20% gamespeed maintenance/cost modifier.
Slower gamespeeds = Less gold in same time +20% gamespeed maintenance/cost modifier.

Or correctly if other gamespeed should work like eternity because you need longer to create more income but pay more maintenance for the turns you need longer:
Faster gamespeed = Many gold in short time + +90% gamespeed maintenance/cost modifier.
Slower gamespeeds = Less gold in same time +20% gamespeed maintenance/cost modifier.

Current setting increase the difficulty lvl for slower gamespeeds, and that sucks. You have the difficulty levels for that... then you have the same outcome on all gamespeeds and not making one gamespeed (eternity) paying more maintenance then on other gamespeeds + needing more time/turns.
 
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Joseph, you just have to accept that it dont works your way and dont talk crap swampfox, i play more turns in one game then you in 6 month in 10 games. ;) Worked before your changes now it will never work, at least on gigantic and eternity not, so make it work for that. Scenario works fine because you can select your gamespeed and difficulty lvl as you wish. But mod should work for all gamspeeds and map sizes. Load the savegame i provided here, then see yourself..

Do not just rant at Joe. Look at your changes.

It is a pity the XML changes (and extra graphic's) added by your mod, no longer allow older users/PC,s to play C2C.

You should do more validity checks.

If it seems to work on your system - do not assume it works on all. Some modern checks are to simplistic and would crash other sometimes better computers.
 
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+200% game difficulty on eternity gamespeed currently is the only thing you need to understand. ;) Learn german. ;) Just reported, do with the information what you like, still gaming my game now, works fine for the AI so far. I will report more problems later...
 
Do not just rant at Joe. Look at your changes.

It is a pity the XML changes (and extra graphic's) added by your mod, no longer allow older users/PC,s to play C2C.

You should do more validity checks.

If it seems to work on your system - do not assume it works on all. Some modern checks are to simplistic and would crash other sometimes better computers.

Scenario is only a map with starting positions, so will work with the normal mod settings or with my changes.
No extra graphics are added or something as you mention here, only 2 xml changes currently done in the C2C mod by me. Scenario is completly done as the mod allows it and you can select your difficulty level or gamespeed at your own.

1. CIV4GameSpeedInfo.xml (Gamespeed modifier set to the same on all gamespeeds as it should be)
Set <iGoldModifier> to +20% for all gamespeeds like it is on normal gamespeed.

2. MAX_DISTANCE_CITY_MAINTENANCE (GlobalDefines.xml)
Set to 10 is original 50 (For normal maps) and in mod it is 100 now, is needed to make larger maps working because of the larger distances. Drives the AI bankrupt, should be map size based. Because of different/longer distances on larger maps.

So just reporting problems, if they dont want to see them or dont want to hear them its ok, i only reporting problems, not rant about anything or anyone. ;) ppl tend to feel personaly attacked instead of seeing ond considering these problems correctly.

I reported the gold miscalculation some month ago, first alot of crying and now it is fixed. So its good to report problems, its a natural thing that some ppl dont like it because there is more work needed or there changes dont work well as they want them to. (Also they have to be diplomatic because they dont want to loose one from the mod team that dont like the changes) Tell me if you dont want reports of problems, then i go and make my personal changes if needed and report nothing. I only show stuff that dont works on larger maps and eternity gamespeed. Bugs and problems i found.

My scenario is playable with the current normal mod settings also, but it will drive the AI bankrupt, and on all gigantic maps not only in this scenario. And if you like +200% difficulty level by gamespeed eternity compared to normal gamespeed you dont need my changes.

So i will keep reporting problems that i see, if the mod team wants to change or fix them is up to them. Dont feel yourself personaly attacked, bug is bug and problem is problem, good for the mod if testers report them.

First change:
1. CIV4GameSpeedInfo.xml (Gamespeed modifier set to the same on all gamespeeds as it should be)
Set <iGoldModifier> to +20% for all gamespeeds like it is on normal gamespeed.

Will work for everyone.

Second change:
MAX_DISTANCE_CITY_MAINTENANCE (GlobalDefines.xml)
Set to 10 is original 50 (For normal maps) and in mod it is 100 now, is needed to make larger maps working because of the larger distances. Drives the AI bankrupt, should be map size based. Because of different distances on larger maps.

Should be map size based, then it will work for everyone. If you play smaller maps you can go with the current mod settings.

So i do that work and report these problems to help to make this great mod better, not to rant on Joe. ;)
 
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They have understood enough to fix the gold calculation bug. ;)
 
So three more problems... when you attack a city then the enemy Tribal Guardian still leaves the fortification mode and gets "waked up", maybe its a bug or he is switching from crime fighting or something to fortification mode next turn maybe. If you load a game he is in fortification mode directly as it looks like, strange.
Screenshot 1 and 2

2. The AI is still settling the next city stupid. They have better terrain to the south, and they will not switch the position to settle when they gone there and explored more, they still build the new city in this taiga plot, may be a new terrain problem that the AI dont understands the added terrain Taiga.
Screenshot 3

3. Building bug "Building is no longer functioning" (Red message top of screen) i noticed that this starts when you switch to banditry, so looks like a banditry problem. Sometimes this comes up and next turn the building starts to work again. Maybe only in citys where you build a bandits hideout, but i am not sure about that.
Screenshot 4 and 5
 

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he is switching from crime fighting or something to fortification mode
The AI is programmed to respond to an incoming threat and change its buildup if it feels it should. This is probably exactly what is happening here.
 
Yep, and nice to see they switched production to military units directly after my war declaration and the appearance of my army at there city gates.
 
I gave you a small reprieve today. Eternity's iGoldmodifier is now at 180, but it cost every other Game Speed except Snail as I bumped up Normal, Epic, Marathon, and Eon. And to reiterate again to you, I play test Every Game Speed. So the rant over Normal is a misplaced assumption on your part:old:.

I also cut the Initial City Maintenance cost as well.

The 190% was doing exactly what I wanted it to do. Slow down the early growth and expansion. And at the same time make playing on Deity a challenge as It is Meant to be. Deity players of C2C are now being challenged for the 1st time ever in C2C. And your early Rush tactics will be to no avail. You conquer a rival city before Tribalism and you will be Damned hard pressed to keep it. It will stay that way too. Otherwise the mid to late game becomes a farce and the Mod might as well be named Caveman2Classical. Just because you prefer the longest GS will Not get you any preferences to exploit that fact.

Enjoy.
 
Good Good these changes, but i still going with my changes for this one now, still unwinable on deity + eternity. But maybe i can survive for a long game. You can only rush early on deity + eternity when you can manage to get neanderthals, took me 6 games to get that one time before the AI, You need to be lucky and play very good. And you cant rush to mutch, then you will go bankrupt, so was fun this early war and was really hard to do. And is the only way to keep up on deity + eternity with the AI a bit, but cost me alot of research, so some of the AI is far ahead of me in research now. My current game is very fun, but your current changes may help to dont make the AI or the player bankrupt, yep go on with your test, go to worldbuilder and place a special agent into every AI captial city in your games, then leave WB and look into the AI citys, then you see how they progress. I will post later a AI test savegame here where you can look into the AI how they progress on my changes.

Thats not an exploit, thats a good strategy, but its hard to do and it may fail and it's no gurantee that you win the war, the AI is strong. Also it's very costly. (Also when you build a early army you cant grow your population, so its risky because you fall back in production.)
 
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How do you increase the map size further? I tried increasing the height, but any number (even a lower one for some reason) crashes on graphical init. I want to add height so I can add a space part of the map with "planets" to the top or/and bottom of the map. Will I ever see space? Probably not, but I want to make it anyway :p

Is there something else I need to edit besides the map file?

This is what is in the file unchanged

BeginMap
grid width=232
grid height=112
top latitude=90
bottom latitude=-90
wrap X=1
wrap Y=0
world size=WORLDSIZE_GIGANTIC
climate=CLIMATE_TEMPERATE
sealevel=SEALEVEL_MEDIUM
num plots written=25984
num signs written=0
Randomize Resources=false
EndMap

I changed grid height to 124, and then multiplied that with the number of plots needed came out to be 28768

I also tried height at 134 and multiplied accordingly. Though I guess it needs to be multiplied by 4 so that wouldn't work I guess. However, I tried height at 148 (which is multiplied by 4, like 124 is) and it still crashes at graphical init when its loading.

All I want to do is load the map into the world builder so I can add the space stuff lol. Sadly the world builder is in the game and a map has to already be loaded :( but it crashes when loading lol.

Anyone know what might be wrong?
 
Just an assumption: 25984 = 232 * 112. You might need to adapt "num plots written" accordingly.
 
You also need to define new plots.

Ah, this might have been it. I didn't define the

"
BeginPlot
x=14,y=39
TerrainType=TERRAIN_COAST_TROPICAL
PlotType=3
EndPlot
"

style plots. I guess I gotta add them

thanks :)

(edit:

Still crashes

The last beginplot is...

BeginPlot
x=231,y=147
TerrainType=TERRAIN_OCEAN_POLAR
PlotType=3
EndPlot

And its the same for 112 to 147.

and this is what it looks like for beginmap

grid width=232
grid height=148
top latitude=90
bottom latitude=-90
wrap X=1
wrap Y=0
world size=WORLDSIZE_GIGANTIC
climate=CLIMATE_TEMPERATE
sealevel=SEALEVEL_MEDIUM
num plots written=34336
num signs written=0
Randomize Resources=false

And it only crashes on graphical init.
 
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Ah, this might have been it. I didn't define the

"
BeginPlot
x=14,y=39
TerrainType=TERRAIN_COAST_TROPICAL
PlotType=3
EndPlot
"

style plots. I guess I gotta add them

thanks :)

(edit:

Still crashes

The last beginplot is...

BeginPlot
x=231,y=147
TerrainType=TERRAIN_OCEAN_POLAR
PlotType=3
EndPlot

And its the same for 112 to 147.

and this is what it looks like for beginmap

grid width=232
grid height=148
top latitude=90
bottom latitude=-90
wrap X=1
wrap Y=0
world size=WORLDSIZE_GIGANTIC
climate=CLIMATE_TEMPERATE
sealevel=SEALEVEL_MEDIUM
num plots written=34336
num signs written=0
Randomize Resources=false

And it only crashes on graphical init.
Well I extended my map in x direction, when I was doing space map.

Plot order is first increasing y's and then increasing x's spmething like this:
Spoiler :

### Plot Info ###
BeginPlot
x=0,y=0
TerrainType=TERRAIN_GRASS
PlotType=0
EndPlot
BeginPlot
x=0,y=1
TerrainType=TERRAIN_GRASS
PlotType=0
EndPlot

........................

BeginPlot
x=0,y=39
TerrainType=TERRAIN_GRASS
PlotType=0
EndPlot
BeginPlot
x=1,y=0
TerrainType=TERRAIN_GRASS
PlotType=0
EndPlot

............................

BeginPlot
x=279,y=38
TerrainType=TERRAIN_ORBIT
PlotType=2
EndPlot
BeginPlot
x=279,y=39
TerrainType=TERRAIN_ORBIT
PlotType=2
EndPlot

### Sign Info ###


In my case map is 280x40.
Probably making map higher broke this order.
So making it wider is just fine and fairly easy.

Another solution would be using smart map to generate map with desired dimensions.
You would need to disable hill/peak/river/feature/bonus generatioin and set it to 99% of ocean. Also use only one player for it.
Then you could quickly replace small islands with ocean.
Then you can copy data from original map.
Making map higher would mean you can't just copy paste whole plot data up to certian x, but you would have to copy paste each x column individually.
 
I'll try smart map. I tried doing X to a higher number and set the stuff accordingly and it still crashed. I dunno why, cause I have num plots written properly and did the beginplot stuff
 
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