C3C Deity Tips

[Svar]

I'm currently trying to play a C3C Deity game for high score and since I have never played at this level I am practicing on a world that isn't worthy of the attempt but has been fun to play because there were 7 luxuries close to my capital. The 8th luxury was hooked up between 1000 AD and 1100 AD after I took it from the Spanish.

I have found a new use for all the slaves that razing all the AI cities yields. I use the ICS city placement with 3 times as many temperory cities intermingled with the permanent ones until after hospitals have been built and the permanent cities can grow so big they need the tile that the tempory city occupies. When one of the tempory cities can occupy a tile next to fresh water I add 11 slaves from a civilization that has been eliminated and create either 6 or 7 scientists. You need a food bonus for 7 scientists. This is of course after you build railroads. The yield per city is between 18 and 22 beakers. That's about 200 beakers for every 10 temperory science cities. That requires 110 slaves as well but you have them by the hundereds anyway.

Another trick I have learned is a use for all those military units that have fired and still have movement points left. There are a few AI cities that have wonders that I want and even when you get the enemy population down to 1 the city still needs a garrison of 6 until the AI civilization has been eliminated. I just keep adding expended units to any city that needs garrisoning according to Crpmapstat until the garrison requirement has been met. You need to move injured units to a barracks city next turn when they have all their movement points and replace them with fresh expended units.

 

[superslug]

One thing I've noticed (quite pleasantly) on C3C Deity is that with the right AI/research and prebuilding, it's very possible to beat the AI to both the Pyramids and the Glib.

 

[Moonsinger]

Here is what I usually do to conquer a new city:

step#1: Use armies to take down the defenders, but do not waste their last movement points. Immediately after battle (within the same turn), the armies and all attacking units should retrieve back to their home cities for healing.

step#2: Leave the newly captured city undefended if the enemy doesn't have any fast moving units to retake it. If the enemy has fast units, leave healthy defenders to defend it for exactly 1 turn. Don't forget to move all of them out to attack a new cities by the next turn. The key is to never station your troops in any capture town for more than 1 turn.

step#3: Immediately use workers to plant the near by forest and chop them down for shield. Note: must plant the forest and chop them down immediately in the same turn. For every three forests you chop down, you should be able to rush a settler immediately no matter what!. The bottom line, it doesn't matter if the city is in chaos, riots, and full of 100% rebels, you can use the forest operation to turn those rebels into settlers. For example, if you are taking down a newly capture size 12 city, just by working on the forests and starvation, you can easily reduce it to a size 1 within 4 turns.

step#4: Once the city has been reduce to size 1, now move your troops in to squeeze out the last rebel! You should be able to squeeze out that last rebel within 1 turn without any problem. The city is perfect safe now. Don't forget to move all your troops out after just in case of culture flip.

How about that? Squeezing out all of the rebellion while producing new supply of settlers without taking any risk on culture flip. Btw, this technique is copyrighted (by me). If you use it, please remember me.

 

[Kemal]

Here is what I usually do to conquer a new city:

step#1: Use armies to take down the defenders, but do not waste their last movement points. Immediately after battle (within the same turn), the armies and all attacking units should retrieve back to their home cities for healing.

By no means am I a HoF player, but i was wondering... why not station the troops that have attacked the city this turn but with 1 movement left in the freshly conquered city? That way they can quell some resistors, which you could turn into specialists while performing the forest chop routine, while returning to a home city next turn via a railroad connection.

Or is this technique to be used pre-railroad times...? If so I'd take the risk of a flip most of the time, or even heal just in the open, since heading back to home cities via roads would most of the time mean a loss of speed with regard to taking out the entire AI civ, I suppose..?

But as said, I play PBEM most of the time these days, where these issues are usually.. no issues , so please feel totally free to educate me on this.

 

[LulThyme]

One thing I've noticed (quite pleasantly) on C3C Deity is that with the right AI/research and prebuilding, it's very possible to beat the AI to both the Pyramids and the Glib.

Definetly
Of course this depends a lot on type of map, and number of opponents but one key thing to remember is :
at all difficulty , the AI is super slow at getting litt.
Note that actually getting litt incites him a little bit as it reduces cost, so sometimes its worth waiting to get it until prebuild almost done, depending on circonstances...

In my deity 20k game, my capital beat the ais to all the AA wonders except great lighthouse and Soz (but didnt have ivory...) with just one SGL.
Of course everything was arranged, but its still partially doable in any type of game.

 

[Moonsinger]

By no means am I a HoF player, but i was wondering... why not station the troops that have attacked the city this turn but with 1 movement left in the freshly conquered city? That way they can quell some resistors, which you could turn into specialists while performing the forest chop routine, while returning to a home city next turn via a railroad connection.

Yes, you should station as many healthy troops there during that first turn. However, you don't really have to do that. Most of the time, I don't have any troops to spare for that purpose since most of my healthy troops are required to squeeze out the last rebel in some other size 1 cities that I have captured a few turns ago. The bottom line is that you don't really need any troops at all to deal with those rebels because you can always rush settlers no matter what.

Or is this technique to be used pre-railroad times...? If so I'd take the risk of a flip most of the time, or even heal just in the open, since heading back to home cities via roads would most of the time mean a loss of speed with regard to taking out the entire AI civ, I suppose..?

You are right! It works best if you have railroad. Thanks! I forgot to mention that...since I usually wait until I have railroad to start any major wars, therefore, I take that for granted.

But as said, I play PBEM most of the time these days, where these issues are usually.. no issues , so please feel totally free to educate me on this.

It probably won't work in PBEM anyway since the humans players probably have worked the forests on their land to exhaustion long before that; therefore, there isn't any tiles left for you to use. As for the AIs, they never (at least I have never seen) them plant trees for the purpose of cutting down for shield; therefore, you can use this trick. Beside, the human players are way too smart to fall for this. I have never seen any "human" stupid enough not to have any fast units under their command; therefore, you can't risk your workers on the forest operation.

 

[Kemal]

But what I was really wondering about I guess, if you have the railroads in place already, why only use healthy troops to put in those cities on turn 1?

Since the wounded troops will heal just as fast next turn when you move them away from the freshly conquered cities to the home cities without loss of movement (with railroads) on turn 2, as they would have done when moving them to home cities with just one movement left on turn 1, with the exception that in the latter case they don't quell resistors which can be turned into specialists on turn 1, which I thought might be of more use than resistors, even if the final plan is to get rid of both of them via the forestry tactic as soon as possible.

 

[Moonsinger]

I also forgot to mention that if you have time to kill and fast conquest isn't an issue, just rush workers instead. Since you need only plant and chop 1 forest each turn to turn 1 rebel into a worker. They are much cheaper than rushing settler.

 

[Moonsinger]

But what I was really wondering about I guess, if you have the railroads in place already, why only use healthy troops to put in those cities on turn 1?

It's just my style! The moment I have railroad, I should be focusing on eliminating 1 AI civ in every 10 turns. Therefore, speed is the essence. If I station my unhealthy troops there, that means they are going to have to stay there for more than 1 turn to heal. What if it flips? Since my culture is usually at the deep bottom, I can't risk that. Basically, I don't station just a few troops station in those unstable cities. I either put in at least 30 units there (even when I have to deal with only 1 rebel) or none at all.

Since the wounded troops will heal just as fast next turn when you move them away from the freshly conquered cities to the home cities without loss of movement (with railroads) on turn 2, as they would have done when moving them to home cities with just one movement left on turn 1, with the exception that in the latter case they don't quell resistors which can be turned into specialists on turn 1, which I thought might be of more use than resistors, even if the final plan is to get rid of both of them via the forestry tactic as soon as possible.

Of course, you are cool to improvise and/or to adapt the technique to work best for your plan. The key ingredient is to use the forest operation to turn resistors (I keep calling them rebels for some reason) into valuable workers or settlers.

 

[Kemal]

The technique, which I'd have never though about, sounds great, a solid way of getting extra shields to those cities for either bringing down the resistance with settlers or workers, but still... those unhealthy troops, with railroads, don't need to stay for more than one turn in those freshly captured cities, if you can move them to home cities via railroad without loss of movement points, since they will still be healthy next turn if you can bring them to a city with barracks with all their movement still in tact.

But of course, it's I suppose also a matter of style, I like to squeeze out any last drop of economic gains, while totally disregarding score, which is about the biggest sin one can commit on this part of the forum, I suppose.

 

[Moonsinger]

The technique, which I'd have never though about, sounds great, a solid way of getting extra shields to those cities for either bringing down the resistance with settlers or workers, but still... those unhealthy troops, with railroads, don't need to stay for more than one turn in those freshly captured cities, if you can move them to home cities via railroad without loss of movement points, since they will still be healthy next turn if you can bring them to a city with barracks with all their movement still in tact.

You do have a good point there (if there is a barracks). I guess old habbit is hard to break. For some reason, keeping them near the front line doesn't feel right for me. Most of the time, I even move them all the way back to my palace to rest....I know it's silly but that is just one of those things I like to do. I'm sure it would improve their moral by having them resting and healing at home near the people they love.

Actually, there may be a logical explaination for my odd behavior. By having all my troops camping at my capital or some designated safe heaven, I'm able to monitor my units' condition better. I did the same thing with settlers, workers, and artilery units...if they aren't needed, you can usually find them partying near my palace (or some esignated garthering place) in nice and neat stack of 10 or 20. Beside, leaving those cities at the front line undefended is part of my plan to lure the AI out in the open (of course, this won't work against the human players...probably one of the reason why I'm avoiding playing against you).

 

[Takeo]

Here is what I usually do to conquer a new city:


step#3: Immediately use workers to plant the near by forest and chop them down for shield. Note: must plant the forest and chop them down immediately in the same turn. For every three forests you chop down, you should be able to rush a settler immediately no matter what!. The bottom line, it doesn't matter if the city is in chaos, riots, and full of 100% rebels, you can use the forest operation to turn those rebels into settlers. For example, if you are taking down a newly capture size 12 city, just by working on the forests and starvation, you can easily reduce it to a size 1 within 4 turns.

i thought you could only get shields from forest that started on the map, not from planted forest. wish i had known this earlier!!

 

[Moonsinger]

i thought you could only get shields from forest that started on the map, not from planted forest. wish i had known this earlier!!

You can harvest each forest for shield only one! If there was no forest, you can plant one and harvest it for shield, but don't do it more than one.

 

[Takeo]

You can harvest each forest for shield only one! If there was no forest, you can plant one and harvest it for shield, but don't do it more than one.

do you mean that every territory tile can(with forest on it, planted or original)be harvested only once?

 

[superslug]

do you mean that every territory tile can(with forest on it, planted or original)be harvested only once?

That's correct.

 

[Svar]

In my latest practice game which was a failed diplomatic win I discovered a couple of useful tips. The first involves directing an ally that has an ROP with you into bad terrain before your declaration of war just before the UN vote. The reason for this is to put the bulk of his forces in a position where they can't hurt you for 1 turn so you can get a favorable vote in the UN and win the game. I had huge Zulu SODs traveling back through my territory when I got the idea that I could direct them into bad terrain. I first built fenses with slave workes forcing them to travel over mountain tiles so I could monitor their location. I wanted them out of my territory before I declared war but in some location that was hard to move through. I kept directing them into jungle terrain without roads and then trapped them there.

The next tactic invloves building barriers over long borders to keep out your enemies for short periods of time. I planted forest tiles 2 wide over long distances between undefended cities then destroyed the roads so even cavalry couldn't get through in a single turn. That worked as huge stacks of cavalry penetrated both forest tiles but could move no further. Had the game gone farther I could have defended the close cities with some of my many armies and defeated the exposed cavalry with artillery and tanks when they left the forest for the open grassland.

 

[boogaboo]

Again, about the diplomatic tip I don't know, but your "reforestation" for movement points is quite funny! (in a very good way)

Finally resembling some strategically meaningful border!

 

[Svar]

I just discovered another interesting quirk of C3C that I never noticed before. I play with Respawn AI Players on because after 10 AD there is no place for them to respawn to. In the current game I'm playing (C3C Emperor fastest spaceship finish on a huge world) there was a large open space that was available for the AI to respawn to. The last 3 AI Civs that I eliminated all respawned and I used the respawnning to my advantage. The first AI to respawn took all of its units that were scattered over the map with it to its new capital. By the last AI that I eliminated I decided to see if I could eliminate the AI in 1 turn and get it to respawn to the same remote area that the other two did. To do that I needed to ignore all the enemy units that were not in AI cities. It was close but with my last offensive units I was able to eliminate the last AI city and like magic over 30 enemy units that were threatening me were moved to the remote location where I could eliminate them the next turn. I didn't know the game worked this way so I'm sharing. I know, with respawn off the 30 odd enemy units would have been eliminated anyway but I was using them to farm MGLs.

 

[Moonsinger]

By the last AI that I eliminated I decided to see if I could eliminate the AI in 1 turn and get it to respawn to the same remote area that the other two did.

I think a brand new tactic/exploit may be implemented with your information. For example, you could eliminate the AIs over and over and over again and each time you do that, you will earn 100 gold. Since each time they respawn, they get 100 gold free directly from the bank at Firaxis. If you can predict the exact location of their respawn (like you just did), you could earn an extra 100 gold in every turn. If you do that to 10 other AIs in the game, an extra 1000 gold in every turn. It's a potential gold mine, but may require some work to set it up.

 

[Svar]

I think you would need lots of potential respawn areas for that to happen. In my case there was only one respawn area so when I eliminated the respawned AI it was eliminated permanently. The respawn area needs to be free of your cities and units but I did get the 100 gold every time. The last time there was also a settler sent out but I eliminated it before it could found a new city.