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C3C Redux: Six months with no patch.

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Powerslave, May 12, 2008.

  1. Powerslave

    Powerslave Prince

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    (tl;dr version: No patch! Me mad. Me go on rant now.)

    I got some other games, so I wasn't playing Civ IV much for the past six months. After seeing some news on Spore, I remembered about civfanatics and decided to check out what was going on and maybe re-install the game so I could see how the latest patch plays out. Imagine my surprise when I find out that Firaxis decided to abandon its flagship game again, for the second time in a row.

    I had serious reservations about buying Civ 4, because C3C was such a unplayable mess by the last patch. I figured, "Well, maybe that was just a one-time thing. They wouldn't do that again, not when gamers have such a long memory." Well, I was wrong. Granted, Civ 4 is still quite playable in its final patch, as opposed to C3C, but why can't they just fix the stupid game? It's unprofessional, and I can't understand why they're not deeply shamed and embarrassed by the state of the game. We're talking about something that takes two minutes to find and fix. I knew what the problem was as soon as I downloaded and played my first 3.13 game. I was about to release an unofficial patch when I saw that Bhruic had already done so (bravo to you, sir). But Firaxis can't give their flagship game another five minutes of attention? That's sad, man. Really, really sad.

    "Just download the unofficial patch," I hear you say. Yeah, well, good luck with playing multiplayer games when you've got unofficial patches installed on your system. Good luck even finding out about the existence of such unofficial patches, without already being a hardcore gamer! Most gamers, like my girlfriend, aren't going to sign up to an unofficial forum and download an unofficial patch. They'll use the in-game update tool, then assume the game has been abandoned by the developers (which it has been).

    It seems to me that Brian Reynalds was the true heart of Firaxis, because this kind of crap never happened when he was there. Screw Sid Meier and Firaxis; I'll buy an EA game before I ever touch another Firaxis game. And I'll let everyone else around me know that, too. When Firaxis goes bankrupt -- as they must -- I'll laugh at them. A dumbed-down, cutesy version of Civilization will go over as well as a dumbed-down, cutesy version of SimCity. Mark my words... these are the end-times for Firaxis and the Civilization franchise.
     
  2. omnimutant

    omnimutant Warlord

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    I feel your Pain but for the record EA doesn't patch games either, unless it's a title thats making them Massive amounts of money hand over fist, then it still takes an act of congress to get them to make a patch. Atari is another Notorious company that abandons tittles. It's because we still buy this junk, even though 99.9% of every piece of software thats come out the past 10 years has been Bugged and required a patch, that theses companies don't seem to care much. They know something else will come along soon and grab your attention anyway so they don't bother.
     
  3. Willem

    Willem Deity

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    Well if it makes you feel any better, we are supposed to be getting another patch at some point. At least that's what we've been told by Firaxis. When that's going to happen is anyone's guess right now though. I agree that it's rather ridiculous that's it's taking so long to get it done and I'm not too impressed by the situation either. Between the poor final support now for two of the Civ titles and a couple of dud games they've released, Pirates and Railroads, I've kind of lost faith in Firaxis.
     
  4. obsolete

    obsolete Deity

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    I already posted today that I am not going to play Civ IV again, as I am too sick and tired of bugs not being fixed. Why did they add an auto-patch updater, yet not even bother to update us with the ton of bugs?

    Never mind, I figured it out. That is only for emergency fixes, such as a critical error preventing the game to run on 20% of machines, as that would cut into costs of sales. The other bugs I guess they can't worry about any priority.

    I will hang around the forums probably for a while, but that's as far as it will go for now. At least I will have more time in my life to do other things in the meanwhile.
     
  5. VLGoldenJew

    VLGoldenJew Chieftain

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    6 months... wow. The sad thing is most people (including myself) will probably still buy Civ Revs, rewarding Firaxis for this neglect. Wooo capitalism.
     
  6. AfterShafter

    AfterShafter Deity

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    Actually, I was totally on the fence about Rev. I like the idea, but the quick gameplay of it doesn't grab me. So, where I was on the fence leaning towards getting it, the negative opinion of Firaxis I've developed as a result of their lack of patching is swaying me to not giving them more money on this game. That's my reprimand - though, Civ V I'm buying immediately upon its release. One can only be expected to fight so many windmills.
     
  7. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    I don't have a console so civ Rev is out of my sight :p But given that I had to buy Civ III complete ( the Atari version ) to be able to play Civ III in a decent way, the 1 h turn lags of Civ IV 1.00 until 1.61 ( yup, 1 h.... ) and this BtS mess ( sometimes I wonder why they released a patch that bugged the game more that it was before ) I may not jump to buy Civ V ( Now if we're talking about SMAC II, that is a entirely diferent issue ;) ... hey I still play SMAC now and then ).
     
  8. Psyringe

    Psyringe Scout

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    Personally, I don't think that C3C was "abandoned". Actually, the current situation with BtS is worse, since anybody who updates his game is stuck with several game-breaking bugs. And not every Civ player finds his way to CivFanatics and Bhruic's unofficial patch. Personally, I *can* wait for the official patch because the unofficial one is very good. But if I didn't know about it (and many Civ4 players don't), then I guess I'd be pretty miffed by now.

    I don't understand why Firaxis is risking its reputation by neglecting support for BtS.
     
  9. Yzman

    Yzman Deity

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    I play without the unofficial patch because I like using official ones only. I wouldn't say the bugs currently are totally game breaking like some of you make it seem. They are a hindrance at times though.
     
  10. oranges

    oranges Prince

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    Workers capturing cities and colony bug seem pretty game-breaking. It might not appear, but when it does it's a huge deal. Given that making a patch for the current issues does not require all that long, it is unclear to me why no official patch has been released. The argument that they want the next one to be THE LAST is lame IMO. It would make sense to postpone it for a few weeks for that reason, but if you're not going to do it for six months, for heaven's sake release the patch to fix the major issues immediately. As emphasized by many, not all players are aware of Bhruic's patch.
     
  11. Kranden

    Kranden War is the real diplomacy

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    It's because they would rather be working on Civ5 than touching up Civ4.

    New game = Money

    patch != Money
     
  12. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    Ther was a thread with a page long post with the at the time known bugs of patch 3.13. And after that even more were discovered: the last one I heard about is a completely wacko one.... you can't sabotage buildings in a city with spies if the city doesn't have the cheapest building avaliable ( i.e. monuments ). this means, among other things, that if the target civ made henge, they are sabotage free....

    Not to mention other bugs, like the worker capturing city or the DOW at colony making... Calling them minor hindrances is clearly underestimate them...

    Thus spoke the CEO .....

    I do think that the Firaxians want to finish Civ IV properly, but they don't call the shots, remember?
     
  13. Kranden

    Kranden War is the real diplomacy

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    I never said I don't want a patch but you know that I am right.
     
  14. obsolete

    obsolete Deity

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    Well, maybe to YOUR Nobel/Settler level games it does not seem game-breaking. But for the more serious player (the big Firaxis supporters/fans) it is a different story altogether.

    If I DO ever give Civ 5 a try, it is NOT going to be through a purchase in a store over a counter-top table. I assure you that (Unless something really changes in the future).



    The only time I remember proper beta-testing, was back when Firaxis OUTSOURCED their Conquests to ANOTHER company. Anyone remember that? Why is there NO beta-test calling anymore? Hell, everyone was doing the beta for free, there were 1200 signups for that project. All players willing to donate their time & effort with no pay for compensation.

    What is wrong here? I used to check all the time with the auto-patch updater (as im sure thousands of others tried as well). And I am starting to think THAT even doesn't work!
     
  15. Willem

    Willem Deity

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    For Civ 4 they did this quietly, through personal invites to various people that hang out on the forums. I personally was a beta-tester for the vanilla game and for Warlords. Just because they haven't been making public announcements about it doesn't mean that they've abandoned testing.
     
  16. Kadasbrass

    Kadasbrass Warlord

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    Well if it makes you feel better I have Dungeon and Dragon (3.5) books loaded with errors and have no erratas for... its not much different then no patchs :crazyeye:
     
  17. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    And to say the truth, Firaxis is asking for beta testers for *something* ..... IMHO it is too late for Civ rev and since they putted it in Civ IV General discussions thread.....
     
  18. LordMachiavelli

    LordMachiavelli Chieftain

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    That's the basis of the entire argument here, isn't it? The thing is, that's a mighty simplified and short-sighted view of the issue. The truth is, Civ V has already lost sales due to company policy. How many, nobody can really say.

    For me personally, if Civ V came out tomorrow, I would wait about 6 months. I have plenty of gameplay left in Civ IV, and several mods I haven't even tried yet. That would also give them time to come out with an initial patch or two, and take up a collection to bribe Bhruic into patching up the rest of it. :)

    LM
     
  19. JesusOnEez

    JesusOnEez Emperor

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    Hang on. Only higher level players are big Firaxis supporters/fans? I've been a fan of Civ since III, and have played CIV/Warlords/BtS almost non-stop since they came out. I'm still a Noble player and struggle on Prince so I've come to accept that that's my ideal 'fun' level. It doesn't make me any less of a Firaxis fan/supporter just because I'm a bit crap at the game.

    What a weird thing to say.

    :confused:

    Having said that, I agree that the bugs effect the game less at lower levels as they're simply easier to recover from. The same bugs in Immortal for example could kill your game, whereas at Warlord level, it's be more of a minor hindrance.

    I wouldn't say that Firaxis are slow to release patches. The only games I can think of that get more patches are things like the Quakes/Half-Life 2/Team Fortress (FPS games in general actually). The worst offenders tend to be sports games in my opinion (which EA does seem to have a bit of a monopoly on). You're lucky to get one patch with those.

    Fact is, Firaxis have released a good number of patches for each iteration of CIV at a not unreasonable rate, and arguably it's unreasonable to expect them to release patches every few weeks/couple of months when they're clearly polishing Rev and making a start (hopefully) on Civ V, which I'll be buying the minute it hits the shelves knowing that, like CIV, it'll have years of support and improvements to follow. There's no such thing as a game with no bugs, even after numerous patching, and especially with a game as mathematically complex as CIV, you simply cannot expect there to be no bugs. Sure, some you can live with, some you can't...wait until the next patch, and while you're waiting, take a look back at the bugs they have fixed over the last few years and say, "Thank you Firaxis."

    That is all. :D
     
  20. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    ^^JOE ( BTW, when will you comeback to the SG area ? :p )., you have some points , but my opinion is that BtS in it's whole ( x-pak + patches ) has not been properly tested by Firaxis. things like "None of our beta testers got a AP diplo victory so far" ( read the IGN from about one year ago ) when it was ridiculously easy to get it before 3.13 ( now it is still pretty easy , but it gives some more work ), the complete inbalanced airship mechanics, the completely broken spy mechanism ( especially in pre 3.13 Marathon... not that the system is fixed ) or the 3.13 culture bug show that the testing of BtS was subpar....

    Well, I'm not saying that the Firaxians don't have good will or that are some kind of b*stards ( most of them wandered around here or in the greek forum and they were cool people ), but goodwill is not all.... And goodwill does not substitute good work :(
     

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