C7 Promotion and Recruitment

[WildWeazel]

This is a topic that has been on my mind for quite a while, before work even started in fact, but it's only now becoming relevant.

So far C7 has been mostly a novelty interest to Civ3 players and modders for what it will be someday, so we've only shared it within the Civ3 community. (And FWIW it's been well received. We even picked up a couple of contributors from Discord.) We're just starting to approach a phase where (perhaps optimistically) it could appeal to a wider audience. As we get into scenario creation, better graphics, and potential new features, gamers who aren't already Civ3 veterans may actually want to play it for its own sake. Likewise, as C7 matures beyond a proof of concept we may attract the interest of developers from other circles like Godot or indie gaming.

But at the same time, we don't want to over-promote and fail to impress. Indie games and gamedevs are a dime a dozen and we're not doing anything yet that, on the surface, people haven't seen before. Players or programmers who aren't into Civ3 or Godot may just shrug at this point. So I'd be wary of reaching out very far just yet.

It seems that the closer we get to a legitimately playable Civ3 alternative, the wider the audience we could attract. Soon we may interest more of CFC and Godot developers. Later on, general indie developers and Civ players, and so on.

Just something to think about. Maybe when Carthage is complete, we can have a plan to promote it in some new places, and bring in some new blood.

 

[Ozymandias]

I'm starting to feel like a different sort of Village Idiot than my usual, self-proclaimed "Gfx" one. I'm reading, here, quite a bit about expanding the unspecified scope of the effort. If C7 is indeed intended to be fully "plug compatible" (once again, please do forgive me if my terminology is out of date) with all existing game elements, then I don't understand, at all, about us first, "Getting into scenario creation, better graphics, and potential new features." Likewise, the notion of a, "Legitimately playable Civ3 alternative, the wider the audience we could attract. Soon we may interest more of CFC and Godot developers. Later on, general indie developers and Civ players, and so on."

Taken along with, "Indie games and gamedevs are a dime a dozen and we're not doing anything yet that, on the surface, people haven't seen before. Players or programmers who aren't into Civ3 or Godot may just shrug at this point." I'm not certain what this implies.

So far, only @Quintillus s has publicly "committed" to C7 being fully able to be integrated into existing mods; etc. I'd simply like to have some further elaboration on that point.

 

[WildWeazel]

In short, the more functional the game becomes the more interest we might attract beyond Civ3 players, whether to help us make it or just play. But right now it's probably not going to hook anyone who isn't already into Civ3.

So far, only @Quintillus s has publicly "committed" to C7 being fully able to be integrated into existing mods; etc. I'd simply like to have some further elaboration on that point.

The plan has always been to import any Civ3 content- artwork, maps, whole mods, saves, etc - that you might want. I don't think that's controversial at this point, and we're well on our way there at the individual file level. (For example, you can already play on the map from any BIQ or SAV file.) How faithfully the resulting conversion plays out in-game is another matter. That will depend on what bugs and exploits we fix (perhaps with toggle-able options as done in C3X), the accuracy of our rules and algorithms (we'll do our best), and of course the AI (we can't and wouldn't want to clone it). Regardless of what optional bells and whistles we come up with, the default game configuration will be as close to a C3C gameplay experience as we can reasonably get.

 

[Ozymandias]

Fair enough, with an "*" about how the resulting work "plays out." A major disconnect for me is precisely about game (AI) behavior. This is something I had hoped/tried to bring to the forefront, from my very first posts.

Essentially, all "game behavior" is synonymous with "AI behavior." Certainly, there are "Rules" which are common to both the player and the AI; this is perhaps obvious in terms of Movement limits, etc. Furthermore, AI behavior is deterministic: it is coded into the game, in algorithms. My personal Holy Grail has always been to design an AI which actually mimics intelligent behavior. I believe this can be done: I'll return to my notion of emergent behavior, with a simple example using two simple "Rules," as soon as time permits (and this "R/L" thing keeps getting in the way )

 

[WildWeazel]

(and this "R/L" thing keeps getting in the way )

There we are in violent agreement

 

[Quintillus]

I think it's a careful balancing act. Other than a couple people whom WildWeazel knows IRL, who have been peripherally involved, I believe all but one of the contributors has been at least a member of CFC (though at least one of those first became involved on a different channel, either Discord or GitHub). Since our promotion has largely focused on CFC, that makes sense.

I think it probably is a bit optimistic to think we'll be ready for a significantly wider appeal Soon (TM). One thing that will need to improve is the AI - it doesn't really coordinate defenses or attacks yet (unless someone has some something to improve it while I've been AFK). But we probably also need slightly more mechanics. Buildings and technologies could do wonders to making things seem a bit deeper. But they aren't planned until after Carthage, IIRC. At this point, I don't think it's really playable as a game based on the strength of existing mechanics, so "just shrug" would be the likely reaction in a more general audience.

(It is playable as a demo of progress, and you can sort of do things, so it's interesting from the Civ Fanatic standpoint, but even I would rather play the latest GOTM than play 540 turns of C7 just so I could say I did so. I think 250 or so is the most I've played, and that was mostly watching the AI)

I did add a couple tags to the GitHub project to make it slightly more discoverable, I think 4X and maybe StrategyGame? As more people star the project, its visibility will improve. Kind of a low-key way to marginally improve its visibility without saying, "it's a ready-to-play game!" Which goes back to the other side of the balance - it does have some appeal to potential contributors, and if we can help them find the project without saying, "it's out of beta already!", that's good.

I'd suggest a gradual expansion in publicity. We talked about expanding within CFC, which I think would be a logical step for full-Carthage. Maybe in Civ3 General, or at least a post in top-level C&C (versus buried in this sub-sub-sub forum)? Maybe in another Civ forum, e.g. civforum.de? I'm not sure if WPC/Apolyton has enough Civ-centric activity to have much likelihood of attracting contributors, but they're at least Civ-centric. Later on, a more general forum such as a Civ3-focused part of Reddit would make sense, although the CFC audience is probably more fanatical and thus a better initial audience. Maybe a Steam forum? Is there a still-active strategy game news group? The places with the highest expected ratio of contributors to "expecting a fully playable game" members should be the first areas of expanded promotion.

Granted, I've also been highly focused on IRL lately.

 

[Ozymandias]

I think that we should have a look at Wildfire Games: "A global group of volunteer game developers. We create open source games and mods." They are Open Source entity, and even have their own, "Custom-made, powerful and free engine, named 'Pyrogenesis'".

They're responsible for (among others) "0 AD." and that game is their current focus. Yet I think that any "poking and prodding" into how they work (which I sadly cannot fit onto my dance card, right now) might be enlightening. For what it's worth, here's their "About" page:

Spoiler Wildfire Games "About" page :

Wildfire Games is an international community of dozens of game developers and gamers, who mostly contribute in their spare time on a volunteer basis. We strive to create strategy games as great as the classics of the genre, and to contribute to its evolution.

For the last few years, we have been exclusively developing "0 A.D.", a free, open-source strategy game of ancient warfare, set for release on Windows, GNU/Linux and the Mac. It's a tribute to the ancient world, from Greece and Rome to Carthage and India, with its first edition focusing on the five centuries following 500 B.C. It is powered by our custom-made, powerful and free engine, named "Pyrogenesis".

We develop 0 A.D. openly and collaboratively: We let gamers learn how it works, and we invite them to change it as much as they like, and share their creations with the world.

Another notable project we once made is a total conversion mod for "Age of Empires II: The Age of Kings", named "Rome at War". Released in 2001, it remains one of the top mods for this classic strategy game.

We work within an organized structure (more). We are always looking for skilled programmers and other types of contributors. We invite you to head to our forums and join our active community, and to say hello on our IRC channels, #0ad and #0ad-dev on QuakeNet. Please feel welcome!