Cabinet Vote: New members of the cabinet.

[eyrei]

All senior cabinet ministers need to vote on the proposition to include two more members of the cabinet, that will be elected by the citizens, and will have no power other than to vote in cabinet polls.

If a cabinet member has not voted by the midnight on friday GMT, they will have abstained by default. Should a tie result, the president will have the deciding vote. Vote by simply posting Yes, or No. No elaboration is necessary, though it is welcome.

I propose that two new cabinet positions be created. These ministers will simply be the representatives of the general public, and have no responsibilities, but to vote on issues put before the cabinet. They will be elected as all ministers are, and their votes will be decided by a poll taken of all citizens. They MUST follow the results of these polls to prevent these positions from becoming politicized. They will also be welcome to make suggestions during the turn chats.

These ministers may run for president and VP, should have their own sticky discussion thread, will be elected by popular vote at the time of the other elections(the first two will be elected a few days afterwards, should this resolution pass), and can be impeached as any other official. They are essential the same as other cabinet members, except they do not have a realm where they make decisions. These cabinet members would be at the bottom of the chain of command, after the deputies of the departments.

 

[Shaitan]

Power to the people!

 

[eyrei]

Yes!

 

[Cyc]

I'm sorry, i can not vote yes or no at this time as the position is not well defined. much too vague for a poll. these positions, stated in this poll, are powerless other than to vote. that's all we know of them. clarify and make the ballot concise so we know what we are voting for.
a well defined statement including all necessary responsibilities, privileges, etc should be worked out and posted before any such poll is started.

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by Cyc
I'm sorry, i can not vote yes or no at this time as the position is not well defined. much too vague for a poll. these positions, stated in this poll, are powerless other than to vote. that's all we know of them. clarify and make the ballot concise so we know what we are voting for.
a well defined statement including all necessary responsibilities, privileges, etc should be worked out and posted before any such poll is started.

Sorry, the information you are looking for was posted in the original discussion.
Here it is:

"I propose that two new cabinet positions be created. These ministers will simply be the representatives of the general public, and have no responsibilities, but to vote on issues put before the cabinet. They will be elected as all ministers are, and their votes will be decided by a poll taken of all citizens. They MUST follow the results of these polls to prevent these positions from becoming politicized. They will also be welcome to make suggestions during the turn chats. "

Also, note that the reason for two of them is to avoid removing the effectiveness of the president's tie-breaking powers.

 

[Shaitan]

Originally posted by Cyc
I'm sorry, i can not vote yes or no at this time as the position is not well defined. much too vague for a poll. these positions, stated in this poll, are powerless other than to vote. that's all we know of them. clarify and make the ballot concise so we know what we are voting for.
a well defined statement including all necessary responsibilities, privileges, etc should be worked out and posted before any such poll is started.

The ammendement in question can be found here.

EDIT: Fixed the link

 

[Charis]

I'm not convinced this is the right solution to the problem, and don't really favor the two 'purely voting' positions on the ballot. But it's not more power-for-the-people I'm against...

"Abstain." says the General.

 

[Cyc]

so the newly elected ministers would be able to run for the presidential office and will get to name the next two cities? they will get their own sticky thread for feed back from the citizenry? they can be impeached? their elections coincide with ours? Will their job description put them at the bottom of the chain of command?

give me a day....i'll come up with more questions. and shaitan your link only went to the poll results, not a definition. now that we have the poll results, we need to define the positions. i will object. i will not have this cabinet chair railroaded through by you.

 

[eyrei]

Yes, these new positions would be eligible to run for president.
Yes, they may have their own sticky thread for feedback, mostly on what they should push in the chats.
They could be impeached by a popular vote, though, considering the limited power of these positions, this would rarely be necessary.
Two would be elected immediately, and from then on their elections would coincide with the others.
They would be after the deputies in the chain of command, as these positions are designed to voice the opinions of the populace, not to make decisions on their own.

 

[Shaitan]

Originally posted by Cyc
so the newly elected ministers would be able to run for the presidential office and will get to name the next two cities? they will get their own sticky thread for feed back from the citizenry? they can be impeached? their elections coincide with ours? Will their job description put them at the bottom of the chain of command?

give me a day....i'll come up with more questions. and shaitan your link only went to the poll results, not a definition. now that we have the poll results, we need to define the positions. i will object. i will not have this cabinet chair railroaded through by you.

Yes they would be able to run for presidency - same as the rest of the cabinet.
Yes to the sticky thread
Absolutely yes to impeachment - same as anyone else in the cabinet.
Yes to elections coinciding - same as the rest of the cabinet.
Yes to bottom of chain of command - they do not have departments.

They're cabinet positions and have the same rules and rights as other cabinet positions. Yes, there will be deputies. Yes, they can poll the public. Etc, etc, etc...

I understand your reservations, Cyc, but these are all common sense things. If there are procedural questions we have the Duck to moderate. The proposition is to create 2 new cabinet positions. Instead of running a department they are tasked to keep track of the general will of the people through polls, direct questioning, reading the threads, etc, and vote accordingly. Keep it as simple as it was intended and it all falls into place nicely.

Thanks for pointing out the link error - I fixed it.

I'm not trying to ram this through the channels. I'm probably a bit overenthused to be part of the process of changing a constitution though. Also, my first reply to your first objection was brusk and, as I reread it, I see it can be taken poorly. It was definitely not my intent to slight your concerns or objections. My apologies if you read it that way.

 

[Shaitan]

Looks like Eyrei posted as I was typing. Good to see we're on the same page though

 

[eyrei]

I have edited the original post to reflect the questions asked by our esteemed minister of culture.

 

[Grey Fox]

Yes.

 

[Cyc]

Not only aiding in the writing of this measure, but also being a proponent from it's inception, i proudly vote yes.

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

I vote Yes to this specific suggestion.

I add the comment though, that additions such as this should be rare and made with the level of caution properly demonstrated by the sponsors of this ammendment, as the thought of cabinet positions with no clearly defined responsibilities worry me.

Bill
Trade Leader

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by Bill_in_PDX
I vote Yes to this specific suggestion.

I add the comment though, that additions such as this should be rare and made with the level of caution properly demonstrated by the sponsors of this ammendment, as the thought of cabinet positions with no clearly defined responsibilities worry me.

Bill
Trade Leader

Don't worry. I simply wanted to get the people more involved from the outset, and the illusion of more power should work. (j/k)
What I expect will be the primary function of these cabinet members is that they make regular appearances at the turn chats, after posting polls about what people want done. Then they should lobby the administration to follow what the people ask. Cabinet votes should be relatively rare. The other major impact will be that it will add two more candidates for the presidency. They will have a high chance of election should the citizens be truly disillusioned with the government.

 

[Shaitan]

Four "yes", one "no", one abstaining plus the President approves. Looks like it's a winner. Congratulations to Eyrie for the idea and for being the first to modify our great constitution.

Who will handle the nominations, etc? Domestic Department? The Moderator?

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by Shaitan
Four "yes", one "no", one abstaining plus the President approves. Looks like it's a winner. Congratulations to Eyrie for the idea and for being the first to modify our great constitution.

Who will handle the nominations, etc? Domestic Department? The Moderator?

I think the nominations should be brought by anyone but cabinet members and the president. These positions need to remain as non-political as possible. I also think it would be best if the current government refrain from posting at all in the nominations thread, or from in any way involving ourselves in this election. I will post the thread, and then step aside.

 

[Cyc]

whoa! Shaitan, slow down. i still have 5 fingers on my left hand, so i am able to count all of the votes "for" this issue. i count 5 "yes" and one abstain.

 

[Shaitan]

Originally posted by Cyc
whoa! Shaitan, slow down. i still have 5 fingers on my left hand, so i am able to count all of the votes "for" this issue. i count 5 "yes" and one abstain.

Oops. I counted the "abstain" as a "no". Current tally should be 4-0-1 (aye/nay/none) as the Pres vote only counts to break a tie.

I'll take your advice and slow down before I break something