Calabrim games : Magical choices

[mcwill123]

Death mana = Win.

Destroy Undead? I guess that would only be true in multiplayer though. I would be very surprised if an AI pulled that stunt.

 

[SolkaTruesilver]

Well, the scenario screen tends to bug a lot including me not being able to load half of the dam things without the game crashing. It's a known bug.

And other than the scenarios, there is no reason not to migrate to something like RIFE.

Rise from Erebus?

Oh well. Is there REALLY no reason not to get additional mods like Fall Further, etc...?

And if there isn't, can you give me a small description of each of the bests, with their main strong points/weak points, so I can be sure I pick the one I think I'll have the most fun.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Fall Further - A no longer fixed and updated mod. Most of the team has moved to RIFE instead.

Rise from Erebus (RIFE) - The link really is all there is to know. In the words of the lead designer him self. Also, it is the most modable of all the three modmods with their primary concern being how to make it as modable as possible using the modular system.

And if you wait for the next version, you can also pick up a new race I am working on.


Orbis - Probably the most stable and crash free, but also the most bland of all the 3 major Modmods.

It has some good features, and is quite stable in multiplayer. The AI in my opinion is quite fun but others say it is incapable. This said, I am playing quite an old version.

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Wild mana - This one, I have newer really plaid. It's quite an interesting mod thou, has quite a lot of unique features that none of the others have. It is also the one modmod that puts AI skill before everything else as far as I know. So you might want to try it.

 

[mcwill123]

Why not read the info in the modmod forums?

Rise from Erebus?

Oh well. Is there REALLY no reason not to get additional mods like Fall Further, etc...?

And if there isn't, can you give me a small description of each of the bests, with their main strong points/weak points, so I can be sure I pick the one I think I'll have the most fun.

 

[SolkaTruesilver]

Why not read the info in the modmod forums?

Because I'm shy...

 

[mcwill123]

The only thing is there is way way more information there than someone could put in a post here.

Because I'm shy...

 

[SolkaTruesilver]

The only thing is there is way way more information there than someone could put in a post here.

I know, but the modmod forum simply have a bland list of available modmods, linking to each different threads/subforum.

there is no qualitative comparative assessment, which is what I'd like. I don't want a full blown analysis, just "RIFE has [x] over Orbis, but the latter is better about [y]"

 

[SolkaTruesilver]

Point in case: I just went roaming on all three modmod forums. The gist I got out of it:

- RifE: Seems like more civs, and some civs might have had some twists in term of units and buildings to, alledgedly, improve their playstyle. Some new civs are OP, some others are still bland, apparently. Doesn't seem to have any major changes in gameplay mechanic.

- Orbis: seems like the main change was in term of economy, 'cause I couldn't find a descriptive thread, and most people were simply talking about how you can build special tile improvement anywhere, which isn't a bad idea, IMHO. Also, people felt it went back to the core Civ4's gameplay, and away from FFH.

- Wild Mana: Seems like a rehaul of the AI to make it more competitive and flavorful-oriented.

So, RifE is mainly FFH ON STEROID. Orbis is more economic-centric, and Wild Mana doesnt change that much in term of gameplay option, just increase the competitiveness of the AI.

If I got something wrong, please tell me. As of now, I think I would go for Wild Mana, as I like the idea of better AI that acts properly with their civ choices. I still remember fighting the Amurites, who seemed to think it could only build Satyrs nonstop.

 

[Jarrema]

I would say that RifE has a lot of new features. In my opinion it is the modmod that adds the highest quantity of new things (civs, and other stuff), but some of them are not balanced well, and some are, I would dare to say, unpolished and unfinished. I also remember, that many things are poorly described, or even not described anywhere, so you must learn about them from playing

Wildmana also has a lot of new features, but you can turn most of them on or off. For example, there is a major overhaul of magic system, that has given a name for this mod.

My favourite modmod is Orbis. I love economical aspects of game, it is also rather balanced and stable; changes are well described. The only thing that I do not like in it is AI. But still, now I'm playing Orbis almost exclusively

 

[SolkaTruesilver]

I would say that RifE has a lot of new features. In my opinion it is the modmod that adds the highest quantity of new things (civs, and other stuff), but some of them are not balanced well, and some are, I would dare to say, unpolished and unfinished. I also remember, that many things are poorly described, or even not described anywhere, so you must learn about them from playing

Wildmana also has a lot of new features, but you can turn most of them on or off. For example, there is a major overhaul of magic system, that has given a name for this mod.

My favourite modmod is Orbis. I love economical aspects of game, it is also rather balanced and stable; changes are well described. The only thing that I do not like in it is AI. But still, now I'm playing Orbis almost exclusively

No offense mate, but I don't really get my opinion influenced in any way when people just say there has been "changes" without specifying more.

I mean, you prefer Orbis. Can you tell me what changes impacted you the most, compared to FFH? What you like to have when you fire that mod up instead of FFH?

 

[Jarrema]

I understand your point of view
I do NOT say that the orbis is "best" for everybody, just it is best for me. I'm a "builder" player. And I feel that Orbis is rather for "builders" than for "rushers". i also do not like some civs in vanilla FfH because they have no real flavour - in Orbis they do. But in other modmods they do either...
In my opinion, Orbis has a most interesting economical aspect of play (and I never loved magic; for magic-lovers, Wildmana would be a mod to try)


Not so long ago, I have made a description of major changes in Orbis (for people interested in PBEM Orbis game). So, I will cite myself:

I will try to describe here what I think are major changes from FfH to Orbis (for those of You who do not know Orbis well):
1. Changes in economy:
- reworked civics; no longer "wining combinations" like Aristogarian in FfH
- people eat 3 instead of two, but lot of ways to increase food yields - technologies giving additional food from farms, buiding giving % bonus to food
- almost all improvements are "good" to use - no longer easy decissions.
- much more resources, including new strategic resource - duskwood (increases ranged attacks of archers)
2. New civilizations
- Dao - element masters, agnostic. summon elementals
- Mechanos - steampunk, antimagic, agnostic. a lot of machines
- Palatinate - middle ages civ, has smething to do with Warhammer setting
- Scions - undead civ, WILL NOT BE ALLOWED IN THIS GAME
- Tlacatl - lizards that play differently depending on alignment. Evil ones are slavers and potion masters, good ones - deeply religious
3. Reworked civilisations - basically all, but major changes to:
- Doviello (animal totems, only Charadon is barbaric)
- Elohim (huge reworking, I do not know details)
- Kuriotates (WILL NOT BE ALLOWED)
- Sidars (no more waning, units can survive their dead)

My advice: try to play with civilization before choosing it for this game - even if You think that You know this civ well from FfH You could be mistaked

4. Changes in religions:
- reworked Octopus Overlords - now named 'the Old Ones'. Lot of changes.
- Empyrean as state religion grants +20% in every city
- Council of esus as state religion grants +50% in every city
- new religion: White Hand. If Illians are in the game, other civs can discover this tech only AFTER them (so Illians will always get Holy City). Will change terrain for tundra (not for Illians) and gie bonus in tundra (not for Illians and Doviello)
5. BTS-like rules:
- guilds (I believe 10 of them); every guild has something special - for example Miner's guild executive can found resources on hills (gold, copper etc.); guilds also give access to special buildings
- espionage (not as important as in BTS, but it is here)
- great generals: can join units, recruit in cities or build special buildings (there are lot of them)
6. Other important things:
- spell system reworked
- ranged attacks
- three barbarian factions: animals, orcs and demons. can be at peace with any of them -for example elves start at peace with animals, anyone can build ritual to get peac with demons, etc.
- reworked tech tree

 

[SolkaTruesilver]

Awesome stuff

+1, now I am sold on Orbis, mainly because it's probably the best modmod description I've read. You give +20% and +50% here and there, without actually explaining bonuses in WHAT, but I don't care.

I'm gonna try Orbis in priority once I finished my current game. Then maybe Wild Mana. I guess since I like Dwarves so much, I should try them in Orbis, as the new economic mod works well (flavor-wise) for them?

Also, I've noticed that Wild Mana seems to have.. the terrain affected by the mana nodes? Something like that in Orbis?

 

[Jarrema]

I forget to mention that more than half of this description cames from Ahwaric description of his mod or from Orbis changelog... I just cut some things off, and added a couple of others

Sorry Ahwaric, hope you are not angry at me

+1, now I am sold on Orbis, mainly because it's probably the best modmod description I've read. You give +20% and +50% here and there, without actually explaining bonuses in WHAT, but I don't care.

If I remember correctly, there should be symbol depicting "espionage"

I'm gonna try Orbis in priority once I finished my current game. Then maybe Wild Mana. I guess since I like Dwarves so much, I should try them in Orbis, as the new economic mod works well (flavor-wise) for them?

Not sure if economic system works better for them then for others. But they did not have major changes, so it could be a good starting point if you prefer not to have too many new things at once. If you want to submerge fully into somathinf new, I would suggest Mechanos instead.

Also, I've noticed that Wild Mana seems to have.. the terrain affected by the mana nodes? Something like that in Orbis?

Nothing like this

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Personally thou, I think you should try WM and RIFE but skip Orbis completely.
It is the most polished of them all, but also the most bland.

And lately it has been completely unsupported. Hence any bugs you run into, you are on your own.

 

[SolkaTruesilver]

Personally thou, I think you should try WM and RIFE but skip Orbis completely.
It is the most polished of them all, but also the most bland.

And lately it has been completely unsupported. Hence any bugs you run into, you are on your own.

Yet, Orbis seems to be the most popular PBEM of all these...

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Only because it is the only one we could get to work with the PBEM function.
We first tried base FFH, than the others. And only Orbis worked.

 

[SolkaTruesilver]

Only because it is the only one we could get to work with the PBEM function.
We first tried base FFH, than the others. And only Orbis worked.

Ohh...

Okay then. Can you give me a short description of what you prefer about.. (checks) RifE? I mean, you do not need to give me a complete description. Just maybe the changes in game mechanics, terrain, improvement, etc... Maybe also your favourite new/rehauled civilization.

I am more interested in the change of gameplay than merely a new civilization to pick.

 

[mcwill123]

I think choice of modmods is a strictly a personal choice. My advice is to try one of them and see how you like it. Maybe browse the civilopedia first and pick a civ that looks interesting. They are quick to install anyway.

 

[Jarrema]

1. Choice is strictly personal:
- you like lots of stuff?? go for RifE
- like magic and good AI? (in other words - prefer fighting to building) - Wildmana is for you!
- economy? more BtS in FfH? Orbis!

2. I believe, that Orbis is not only modmod that offers stable PBEM (my guess would be that Wildmana should be able to handle this). I do not remember trying anything else than vanilla FfH, which has a problem with PBEM's.

 

[SolkaTruesilver]

I think choice of modmods is a strictly a personal choice. My advice is to try one of them and see how you like it. Maybe browse the civilopedia first and pick a civ that looks interesting. They are quick to install anyway.

It's easy to switch from one to the other?