Can I stop the AI from winning a space race?

[stormyorky]

Hi!

In my current game 1960 AD, Catherine is about to finish SS life support and will then win a space race victory. I estimate her to finish it in about 3 turns. She builds it in Yekaterinerburg (not sure of the name)


How do I stop her?
Taking Moscow?
Taking Yekaterinerburg?
Sabotaging with a spy?

I wont be able to reach Yekaterinerburg in 3 turns

I hope I can stop her because it would be my first non-earth-map monarch win

 

[CivCorpse]

Hi!

In my current game 1960 AD, Catherine is about to finish SS life support and will then win a space race victory. I estimate her to finish it in about 3 turns. She builds it in Yekaterinerburg (not sure of the name)


How do I stop her?
Taking Moscow?
Taking Yekaterinerburg?
Sabotaging with a spy?

I wont be able to reach Yekaterinerburg in 3 turns

I hope I can stop her because it would be my first non-earth-map monarch win

Take the capital.

 

[obsolete]

Well, if the Apollo station is in the capital then that makes it easy..

Good question is, would capturing the Apollo station matter after it's launched? I guess not, but I'm not 100% sure if it needs ground-control once in flight.

 

[KMadCandy]

key question: is this vanilla/warlords or BtS? the answers are entirely different.

if it's vanilla/warlords, there is no "after it's launched". she launches and she wins in the same turn. and what spies can do is totally different too. all i know that you can do there is try to sabotage the part while it's being made, or declare war on her. i don't know whether capturing her capital destroys her spaceship progress or not?

if you're playing BtS, you have more options. spies can sabotage parts in production, and they can also destroy already completed spaceship parts. that they can do in any city; i guess it's like a project, so it has no one particular city as the base, who knows really. i'm sure it costs a ton of EPs.

in BtS, after she launches it still takes her ship [i don't know how many] years to get from here to alpha centauri. if you capture her capital during that time, she loses all progress on the space race. so if she survives the war with you, she'd have to start making a new ship from scratch to win by space race.

 

[stormyorky]

I didnt make it to Moscow in time. I was in a good lead but she won. Too bad.

Im playing vanilla btw.

 

[obsolete]

in BtS, after she launches it still takes her ship [i don't know how many] years to get from here to alpha centauri. if you capture her capital during that time, she loses all progress on the space race.

Alright, so we are 100% sure that capturing a capital (does the Apollo in it even matter?) that any space ship already in flight will suddenly be null & void? That doesn't make sense to me, unless it's specifically the city that holds the Station.

BTW, I launched before I had both SS engines completed last game. My second SS engine then dissapeared on me (which probably shouldn't happen if there is a risk we may have to rebuild ships if losing the capital).

Also, I was surprised I got no gold when they dismantled my SS engine, but I guess that's supposed to happen...

 

[KMadCandy]

stormyorky, sorry to hear it .

obsolete: cities don't contain projects at all. projects just exist on their own. if you check F9, wonders are listed and they city that built them is listed there too. projects, it just lists the civ.

here's a test i just did in WB to show you what i mean. i surrounded my capital on a future start with forests on every single square, gave myself an army of workers, chopped every forest, threw in more forests and more workers, and voila, apollo was done on turn 1:

Spoiler :

but when you examine the city, Apollo isn't physically located there:

Spoiler :

you can clearly tell it's my only city, i have no trade routes. and you can tell i built it, since i'm allowed to build space ship parts. but the game doesn't treat Projects the same way it treats Buildings and Wonders. Projects are just sort of "big thingamabobs that are bigger than the civ that creates them" i guess. i first noticed it with SDI, i wanted to ruin hatty's somehow and realized i couldn't find it.

no one city holds the station. and that's why you can destroy completed parts in any city.

Alright, so we are 100% sure that capturing a capital (does the Apollo in it even matter?) that any space ship already in flight will suddenly be null & void?

i've seen it happen to the AI, yes. the capital has to be what matters, since F9 and the city screens don't tell us where apollo even is. i don't think the game even cares.

BTW, I launched before I had both SS engines completed last game. My second SS engine then dissapeared on me (which probably shouldn't happen if there is a risk we may have to rebuild ships if losing the capital).

i don't understand. if you mean you were still building a spare engine in case your first ship failed, i think the logic would be that your back-up efforts are still tied in with the original effort. the wording you get when the capital is captured is literally "Mission Failed! All Progress of [name] towards a Space Race has been lost!" to me that implies what's in the air and also if you happen to have back-ups just in case on the ground. you have to start ALL over again, from apollo up i think. not sure, i've only seen it happen to others *knockwood*.

it's not game-over if they capture the city you originally built the Apollo Project in, if it's not your capital. it's only game-over if you lose your capital, regardless of whether that's where Apollo was constructed or not, while you're traveling. i guess the bad guys moving into the palace would cause such mass chaos, confusion, dogs and cats living together ghostbusters style, whatever, that the government collapse makes all the rocket scientists lose their minds . and it's not really game-over as in instant loss, you technically can start your progress again. i don't think i'd be in the mood to tho .

hmmz, keeping around a spare GE to move your palace overnight in case of emergency might not be a bad idea. i wonder if that would save you in a case like that. "OMG, they're at the gates! go tell Imhotep to make a new palace way over there in TeensyTinyVille, that town nobody's ever seen!"

 

[obsolete]

Alright, it seems I'm still stuck in Civ III mode, where a big thing there was capturing the Apollo station forcing your opponents to rebuild.

As for spare parts, actually I was working on the second SS engine in another city even though I had no plans to use it for my main launch. I figured if I launch right away, I don't risk getting sabotaged later. But just incase the AI kills my DockingBay (they really like to go after that piece), then my main production city can re-do the Docking Bay, and hopefully my second SS-Engine will be done by then to get the extra flight speed.

It's late so I hope I am making sense. Also, incase I get the SS engine sabotaged (the one already built) I have the other one coming online.

But I am wondering about something else here. IIRC the casings you build, give about 20% probability of success each piece correct? So lets say, you're desperate, cause your behind. So you launch with only 2 casings in place. This is because another player is too far ahead of you and will take off before you complete all casings.

But also, lets say that there is a small chance you can razz his capital (if your lucky). So, as another backup, you attempt to razz his capital, and make him start over. But at the same time, you SHOULD be working on new pieces again because if your ship fails (it has only 40% mission chance now) to make it, you have to get other parts put together again anyway for a new ship.

This may have been seriously overlooked by Firaxis.

 

[noto]

@kmadcandy: If I don't have a spare GE around (actually, if I got to fusion first I would...hmm) and I want to protect myself from a capital invasion while my spaceship is in flight, could I start building the palace in another city and then simply stop building it there when it was one turn away from completion? Does that little trick work with the palace?

 

[KMadCandy]

@kmadcandy: If I don't have a spare GE around (actually, if I got to fusion first I would...hmm) and I want to protect myself from a capital invasion while my spaceship is in flight, could I start building the palace in another city and then simply stop building it there when it was one turn away from completion? Does that little trick work with the palace?

the mechanics of leaving the Palace in your queue until you're ready to finish it work like any other building, yes. the hammers might even last as long as they do for a wonder before they decay.

note that i don't even know if moving your capital like that is a "get out of spaceship destruction free" card or not. but you know, desperate times might call for desperate measures .

 

[oyzar]

I read somewhere that you COULD NOT stop the spaceship short of wiping out the civ? O_o

 

[obsolete]

I read somewhere that you COULD NOT stop the spaceship short of wiping out the civ? O_o

Well, the next time I get beat to a launch, I'm sending one CRAPLOAD of modern armours & a few nukes directly to the capital, and we'll find out one way or another


BTW, Candy I remember you telling me one time that bears will NEVER move onto a tile that is a current or future resource tile. You probably are aware of this by now, but that isn't true anymore in the latest patch at least. I've also noticed that somewhere between warlords & BtS, bears now specifically target you. It seemed before they'd just go about at random.

 

[Refar]

The chance Animals actually attack is significantly higher in bts. Its at 90% iirc.

 

[KMadCandy]

I read somewhere that you COULD NOT stop the spaceship short of wiping out the civ? O_o

i had read that too. but now i know it's not true. my first evidence was from this post by Shyuhe. the "pudding" *giggle* is in the 2nd screenshot.

BTW, Candy I remember you telling me one time that bears will NEVER move onto a tile that is a current or future resource tile. You probably are aware of this by now, but that isn't true anymore in the latest patch at least.

it hasn't change, but i was missing part of the picture. even before patch 3.13, they get an exemption to the "you are a mere animal, you can't move onto a resource" rule if you're standing on a tile with a resource and they decide to attack you.

edit: i forgot to add the first time: thank you tho ! i always like to learn when i'm wrong, doubly so when it's about something i pass on to others. i'd hate to mislead folks. unless folks = AIs i'm trying to trick on purpose .

 

[illram]

I may be wrong, but maybe the whole "Palace determines the fate of the spaceship" is an homage to Civ 1. In Civ 1 (and Civ2 maybe, can't remember) capturing the capital ended the spaceship's voyage to AC.

 

[KMadCandy]

i didn't play civ1, but i remember surrounding every tile around my capital with troops in civ2, as a sign of "no don't come near me, my ship is in the air and it must reach alpha centauri!!!"

 

[obsolete]

You know, I still have that old poster from Civ II somewhere. The one with all the tech trees listed.

I don't recollect them giving one in the Civ III package, though I enjoyed the very well sized (and explanatory) book. Rare to get souveneirs like that anymore.

 

[IronCrown]

There is no such thing as an "Apollo station". It's the "Apollo program" which was not a physical entity but a series of missions to the moon, conducted by the United States in the 1960s.

So in the game, completing the project means that your civilization has developed and tested technology that brought them into space. It's about knowledge. Such knowledge cannot be easily destroyed, unless the civilization itself is destroyed.

 

[Murky]

Hi!

In my current game 1960 AD, Catherine is about to finish SS life support and will then win a space race victory. I estimate her to finish it in about 3 turns. She builds it in Yekaterinerburg (not sure of the name)


How do I stop her?
Taking Moscow?
Taking Yekaterinerburg?
Sabotaging with a spy?

I wont be able to reach Yekaterinerburg in 3 turns

I hope I can stop her because it would be my first non-earth-map monarch win

If she has more enemies than just you, you might be able to buy some time by bribing them to go to war against her.