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Can I win this game? help!

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by groobz, Nov 29, 2003.

  1. Capt Buttkick

    Capt Buttkick Chieftain

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    Very nice tunraround indeed.
    I've been a lurcher in this thread since page 1. Although I thought the game was salvageable at first, I was a bit reared by the conquest-only victory condition. All in all, you've amazed me with this game :goodjob:
     
  2. Old&Slow

    Old&Slow Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2003
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    Zerk

    Thanks for the good ideas !

    I`ll try and answer your questions.

    1: I do build the FP, but never jump the Palace, mostly because I`m not sure how to place it, I guess I`ll have to check that out .

    2: All the other 6 Civs are left and I`m at 4th.

    3: At 10 AD playing Persia at Warlord and huge Map I`m usually at 8-11 cities, depending if an AI Civ stats a war or not. If not it`s 10-11, if so then it`s 8 or less.

    4: Usually only one allied in a war I start. This is where I`m lost, because most of the time the AI Civ just sit back and wait to grab a City while I do the heavy lifting. Maybe in one out of 5 games have they been aggresive in fighting and taking Cities. Maybe that`s just the way it is. I really don`t see how you guys manipulate the AI Civs so well ?

    5: Usually the pre Tank stacks are all of one type, Knight, Immortal, etc. of about 6-8 units. Post Tank are about 5-8 MI with 1 Tank. The Artillery stacks are about 5-7 with several Inf. to protect them. I guess that`s too few in both eras:o

    The issues I have is I seem to get a great leader in only 1 out of every 4-5 games....this was with C3C, which I think still has issues in that in many ways they have clearly made the game harder for the human player IMO.

    I hope my replies were useful and perhaps you have some views on what I`m doing wrong. I`ll implement your ideas in my playing.

    Thanks !
     
  3. Dr Elmer Jiggle

    Dr Elmer Jiggle Chieftain

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    Many/most people consider palace jumping an exploit. Of course, it's up to you to decide whether you care. Play by whatever rules let you get the most enjoyment from the game. My point is simply that palace jumping is not a necessary technique for mastering the game. It's entirely possible to succeed without using a palace jump.
     
  4. zerksees

    zerksees in remission

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    1: On the palace jump, it is not a big deal if you don't do this. I have beaten the game through emperor before I knew about this

    2: It's not too late to save this one. It will take strategy you are not currently using though

    3: 11 cities is not enough at 10 AD. Try for 20. All of your decisions should have this goal in mind. In my only prior huge map game, I had 19 cities at 10 BC (7 AI rivals on monarch level). I feel 20 cities is probably low, as some of the better players can have hundreds of cities by 10 AD, but it should put you in a much better position than you get into now, and it is attainable. And don't stop expanding at 20. Keep going until there is no more land left. On warlord or regent level, by 10 AD you should almost always have more cities than any AI player. This is so important as more cities allow you to build more stuff later.

    4: Ouch. This means you have never allied yourself with more than one AI. IMO this is a mistake. Go back to the war academy and read the article on rogue state strategy. Get military alliances - as many as you can. Can't get them, sign MPPs and declare war in the same turn - just make sure you stay in the war for 20 turns so your rep doesn't take a hit.

    Go back and reread my posts on this thread, at least through the fall of China. In all of the early wars I lined up many of the AI against one. This is an INTEGRAL part of success in war.

    5: Ouch again.

    For pre-tanks 6-8 doesn't seem to be enough. I make stacks of 25 offensive units supported by defensive units (maybe 5). It takes longer to build up but it packs a bigger punch. Do not create multiple stacks and hit in multiple areas. Focus everything offensive on one objective. Keep a small force on the side for defense (counter strikes to address enemy incursions). Make sure you have enough to take whatever you are going after. Once the enemy runs out of units then you may be able to have more than one group for attacking.

    Post tanks, I would plan a stack of at least 30 tanks, covered by 5-6 MI. Later, use modern armor instead of tanks. I have started with stacks of 50-80 tanks with some frequency.

    Artillery is not very effective in a stack of 5-7. Make a big stack of 30-50. Send it forward in advance of your offensive group. Send it against big cities, or cities on a hill - any place that gives the defender extra advantage. Put enough infantry to defend it.

    At warlord or regent, you should be able to win the game without any great leaders at all! What do you need them for? If you want more leaders, take care of your elites - this means bringing along defenders they can hide under, and not sending them into battle unless they are full strength. SirPleb wrote a great article on generating leaders - again in the war academy. Read it carefully.

    In general, I think you need to spend more time reading and understanding the articles in the war academy. Figure out how to apply them in your game. I started playing civ in December of 2002. This web site has been instrumental in helping me learn the game! I studied those articles in the war academy over and over, even printed some of them for reference.

    Did I mention the war academy articles help me greatly?
     
  5. oregonduckman33

    oregonduckman33 Chieftain

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    lol. Really, they do? Wow it's a good thing you told us that again, I had almost forgotten.;)

    Anyway, great job Zerksees. I just found this thread about 4 or 5 days ago (I've only just recently discover CivFanatics.com...around 3 weeks ago) And it has taken me that long to read it (I've got to get some of my own Civ3 playing in). I really can't believe you salvaged this game. I probably would have finished it (unless it got just tooo frustrating and long) but there's no way I could've won. I am currently playing a regent game on a huge world map as Amercia on regent level. it is in 1760 AD and I'm about 1/4 of the way through the modern age. I've got it completely wrapped up, so at this point I'm looking forward to my next game. But back to the point, I am trying to use some of the strategies that I learned from you in this game (yes, I too have learned a lot. What a coinkidink!).

    I have only recently moved up to Regent level, but I'm dominating my current game so I might move up to Monarch for my next game. The truch is, I haven't really done very much Civ3, but this site (along with C3C) has gotten me back into it.

    I'm still not exactly sure about the whole palace jumping thing. When you jump it, does that just leave all the cities that it used to be next to useless due to corruption?? It doesn't seem like it would be worth the leader, except maybe the first time.

    I'll try not to be a pain, don't worry about any of my questions if they're stupid or take too long to answer, I'll figure them out from reading this forum. Some concepts I'm just having trouble gettig down.

    BTW, I really like C3C. The scenarios seem to be good, I've only played 2 of them, but they're good and they all sound awesom. The thing I really like is the lethal bombardment by planes and improved nazy. Also, I haven't experienced any crashes, and I'm playing w/out a patch, just the normal version.
     
  6. Vencyon

    Vencyon Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
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    Wow, great comeback so far (im still in the middle of reading it. Your strategy is great. I just got a few questions:
    -What is the advantage of building your cities so close as i have seen in your screenshots?
    -How do you move a stack of units as one instead of each one individually, it is really annoying? Also can you do that with attacks also?
    -Do you micromanage all your workers? For me that seems tedious so i use automate.

    Thanks
     
  7. oregonduckman33

    oregonduckman33 Chieftain

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    Vencyon

    -In order to move multiple units at once you make sure a unit in a stack is active, then go to the bottom right of your screen, and right above the white-ish box are a few yellow-ish buttons. One of them is "move all units in stack" and the other is "move all of same type of unit in stack" (or something like that).

    Also, Zeerksees has said that he doesn't automate his workers, or at least he didn't in this game. You must just not have gotten that far in the thread.
     
  8. Vencyon

    Vencyon Chieftain

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    Thanks oregon. I tried the stack thing, but I couldn't find the button you were talking about. Is there any hotkey for it? Does it work for Vanilla civ3, because that is what I have.
     
  9. Legator

    Legator Chieftain

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    Ruhrstadion

    LMAO :D


    hehe, seriously

    nice read zerksees, inspirated me alot. as someone mentioned before (im only playing on monarch level) im not restarting anymore when having a bad start or game afterall - theres still a solution maybe.

    giving em a fight !

    btw, dont be to evil to bismarck ;)

    gl (i didnt read all yet - dont know if your already done lol

    afterall a very nice read :)
     
  10. redux

    redux Chieftain

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    I've played Civ since it's first incarnation... I've been a lurker in this thread since page 1 too!

    In all my years, this has been one of the most epic games I've seen described. Terrific turnaround.. congratulations, zerksees, I think you've inspired a few of us to increase our potential.
     
  11. groobz

    groobz Chieftain

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    Damn i feel embarresed as hell! :), well done Zerk! you fully turned what i had screwed up into an unstoppable empire! learned alot!
     
  12. groobz

    groobz Chieftain

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    Damn i feel embarresed as hell! :), well done Zerk! you fully turned what i had screwed up into an unstoppable empire! learned alot!
     
  13. robbomb89

    robbomb89 Chieftain

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    yea its winnable. You gotta just build up huge forces and then you can go in on an all out attack. Or take it one step at a time and build up attack one city and take. Leave all your forces there and build up again un till you win
     
  14. Greyhawk1

    Greyhawk1 Chieftain

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    Holy smokes!

    I would quail at such huge forces not a few squares away from my land. I've never seen such huge stacks in any of my games. The biggest stacks I've ever seen are danged Barbs with their Horsemen...

    I have found a couple of things that you described actually on my own. The Governor is usually incompetent in placing workers on tiles - sometimes letting a city starve! Never again...

    The tech-buying strategy has been forced on me in my current game - I dont know how they have done it but the AI has run off with techs...

    I'll have to think again about MPP's. I never sign them as I hate getting dragged into wars!
     
  15. zerksees

    zerksees in remission

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    It was only about a year ago that I could barely beat this game on chieftain – so there is no reason to be embarrassed that I can see. We all have to learn somehow. Anyway, because you posted the questions we all got to learn something about it. Are you doing better against the AI now?

    Also keep in mind that the political situation was still good. If that was bad then the first mad AI would have crushed Japan like a bug.

    Just be careful with them. If I can’t get military alliances, then I typically sign them with a bunch of AI players when I am ready to declare war on one AI. I do it on the same turn (sign MPPs, then immediately start the war with the victim). There are lots of bad consequences so I consider them a specialty tool. However, in this game I had many of them as a deterrent to the other AI’s. I felt I needed them to survive, up until China’s demise. True there were some backfires but it worked.
     
  16. Greyhawk1

    Greyhawk1 Chieftain

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    Its amazing how MPP's cascade into world war so fast. Its just like WWI with all their pacts and treaties.

    I just went from world peace to half the world in conflict in one turn due to one little MPP I signed with India. Scary really if you were around in 1914...
     
  17. GeneralMeng

    GeneralMeng Chieftain

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    Is there any chance some one can repost the original save? I would like to give this game a try. Thank you
     
  18. Ceoladir

    Ceoladir Come Fly With Me

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    Holy Bump!

    This thread hasn't been posted on in over six years. Somebody did play this though, I think it's in the war academy. And I think he also has the original save.

    :bump:
     
  19. GeneralMeng

    GeneralMeng Chieftain

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    Yes it is in the war academy, but the link to the original save died.
     
  20. Lord Emsworth

    Lord Emsworth Chieftain

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    I remember that there was some unfortunate incident that had gazillions of attached saves, images and so on simply go *poof*
     

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