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Can I win this game? help!

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by groobz, Nov 29, 2003.

  1. jm chen

    jm chen power lurker

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    Amazing work, zerksees! Do you know how much more area you need for a domination win? Looks like it's well within reach.
     
  2. Baalzebul

    Baalzebul Chieftain

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    Hail to all civfanatics. I' ve been here reading most of the things for about 3 months, but this is my first post.

    First of all great work done Zerksees.

    I wonder one thing. You said that you captured some radar artillery, cruise missiles and stealths from Chinese cities. In my games i captured many artillery or kind of staff, but i never captured a bomber. When i capture cities with bombers they are all automatically destroyed. My question is can stealth bombers and cruise missiles be captured?
     
  3. zerksees

    zerksees in remission

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    I think I mis-spoke in an earlier post. According to Groobz the only way to win is conquest, so tile count doesn't matter (all of the other conditions were turned off). I have to lay waste to all of them! It will take a while to do that. Probably not more than 60 or so game turns, but turns are going quite slow right now. Manual control of all those units takes time.

    Baalzebul -
    Regular bombers are not captured when taking enemy cities, but stealth bombers are. I was quite surprised at this but I'll take it. Nuclear missiles are not captured when taking enemy cities, but cruise missiles are. I have taken cruise missiles and stealth bombers in this game, so I am quite sure this is how it works.
     
  4. southstar

    southstar Chieftain

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    What is the yellow civ? If it is not too strong, try to make an alliance to against russia. Do not alliance with china or germany they are too close to russia and too powerful.
     
  5. xxaaaxx

    xxaaaxx Peaceful Builder

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    .....yellow civ? I dont see yellow in the remaining map.
    Germany's dead. Russia's dead. China's dead. Maybe hit reply on page 2 before the latest update?
     
  6. Goober

    Goober Turning Right ...

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    Wow, Awesome!!! Hard to tell Arabia and China apart there, I thought they were just one Civ, and I was thinking "where the heck is Arabia?" Anyway, very cool. Things looked fairly pitiful at the beginning (like some of my games), but now I think I have learned how to turn things around. I love the updates, and I image that each turn takes a LOT of time. I noticed that all of your cities overlapped. You do not use OCP or RCP? I guess in this game you needed ICS to stick cities in between other AI cities to get resources, etc. You are lucky that Cultural Conversions is turned off, that would have drastically changed the game.
     
  7. DeusXMachina

    DeusXMachina Chieftain

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    another long time civ player and a new poster on this forum just to say: i am impressed!

    zerksees, thanks for a lot of detailed and smart loud thinking.
     
  8. zerksees

    zerksees in remission

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    Southstar –

    You must not have read all the pages of posts. At the end of the first page it was 1170 AD and Egypt (in yellow) was still in the game. If you see this post you have since learned that there are now 5 pages of posts on this thread (what xxaaaxx said). I will put in edit on my last post on the first page indicating there are more pages to read (for any other newbies).

    RealGoober –

    I’ll say it is hard to tell Arabia and China apart! I can’t tell you how many times I saw “but this will cause war with the Arab people!” message during the conquest of China.

    Regarding OCP, RCP and ICS:

    Since the original city placements were done before I started playing, RCP and OCP were out. I think OCP is less effective than RCP and/or ICS, particularly if you want or need to warmonger. In the early turns I crammed in cities anywhere I could to make sure every tile was worked, so I guess that is a variant of ICS. Expansion phase was well over by 590 AD, so I was picking up the pieces.

    As soon as palace jumping started, RCP was irrelevant since the forbidden palace was at the core of the current cities and RCP does not apply around the FP. I tried to have no cities at all near the palace to cut the distance corruption of the empire around the FP.

    When I play from scratch, I try to use RCP (2 rings) around the capital followed by a variation of ICS through the end of expansion phase. Once I start taking over the game I might use OCP in newly conquered areas to keep the AI from rebuilding there and to build happiness cities.

    You are absolutely right about cultural conversions. The culture bar was low in the early going. I was very concerned about culture flips before Groobz informed me that option was off.

    Once I knew that my cities could not flip I became very bold about taking territory from the AI with cities because I knew the cities would not flip. I also had no reason to raze any cities I had taken.

    With culture conversions on, I would have been forced to rush build temples and other improvements in newly built cities to avoid the flips. For conquered cities I could have used garrisons to standby to retake (and keep the other AI from taking), I would have been selective about keeping some cities that were too close to enemy capitals, and I probably would have had to do some razing to ensure I could keep the land, particularly during the early war with Russia.

    It would definitely have slowed the progress, if it didn’t make it altogether impossible to win. But hey, you adapt to the circumstances. I have seen the great players overcome huge cultural deficits on deity, so I can’t say it would have been impossible.

    At peace turns are taking about 45 minutes. I am sure the next war turns are going to be quite lengthy.

    Thanks again to everyone for all your positive responses. You are welcome. I am surprised how many first time posters this thread has created! I suggest anyone learning from this should read it a few times to make sure you get everything.

    Last night I was playing in 1808 and hope to have an update in a few days. I planted spies in India and England and got a good look at their military. More in the next update...
     
  9. Cornflake

    Cornflake Chieftain

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    I have only one word to say: "wow".

    Truly amazing how you mananged to turn the tables on them all...
    I got that itch again...the itch of Civilization III.
    Gonna go play it...right now!!!
     
  10. Goober

    Goober Turning Right ...

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    Yes, I did notice the cities being stuck in where ever there was a space. I do have the same problem telling lots of other Civs apart, the Yellow for Egypt and the Mongols, for instance. Are the AI turns actually tatking that long? What kind of a computer do you have? I had some Huge Pangaea games with 16 or so AIs, and I do notice the processor actually taking a while (~ 5ish minutes) processing each AI move!!! And I have a AMD 2.5+ gHz, 768 Mb!!! I shall try this ICS sometime, lots of people here seem to use it.
     
  11. DS_Legionary

    DS_Legionary Chieftain

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    Yes, I love using ICS for my warring games, or for 100K culture wins. A very effective placement method. Also, congrats zerksees. I'd say this game is now in the bag, although I am interested to see how it would end.
     
  12. DruguLa

    DruguLa Chieftain

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    What is ICS? Is it like RCP (circular and all that)
     
  13. col

    col Old Fart Retired Moderator

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    ICS = infinite city sprawl.

    Basically packing cities in as tight as you can - usually just one space between them.
     
  14. zerksees

    zerksees in remission

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    Another update:

    1794-1800

    Jumped the palace to Plymouth. Income went up by 160 to 6010 and corruption went up by 80 about 1460. Too many cities on the north end of the continent in the radius around the new palace. Start moving 13 units (MA and MI) per turn to Plymouth via airports every turn.

    Let trades of dyes and ivory to Gandhi for 67gpt each expire. Now he is annoyed. Too bad.
    Trade with Arabs. Give aluminum and oil to get spices and silks. It is funny they need aluminum when they have it but just not hooked up.
    In 1798 Abu regrets he does not want to extend MPP. I suspect this may be he undoing by Ghandi or Elizabeth. “Certainly, I understand”. Fool! He should be paying Japan for MPP now.
    I also chose not to renew ROP with Arabs.
    Remarkably, in 1800 my prediction came true when England declares war on the Arabs.

    1802
    Unfortunately, Japan still has one turn left on MPP with England and is forced to declare war on Arabs. Japan takes Mosul, the only Arab city on Japan’s continent. Over the next few turns Japan will sink quite a few Arab ships approaching the coast, but nothing more.

    Japan passes Germany for third place. India – 2388, China – 2176 and Japan – 1997.

    The Arabs foolishly sent a couple ironclads to pillage Japan’s shores, and now Gandhi is forced to declare war on Arabs due to his almost expiring MPP with Japan.

    MPPs with India and England expire. Japan does not renew them. Those days are over. I was a little sloppy with the political situation there and let this situation develop. Maybe I should have renewed MPP with Arabs to stall off the war a few more turns. Oh well. Now the war is on and Gandhi takes the lone Arab source of aluminum in Baghdad.

    India feels sorry for us and offers free artistry for 10 gold. I find this comical. Japan is probably three times bigger than them. For fun Japan accepts.

    All of these unplanned wars require revised strategy. While going after Arabs with minimal force, Japan will now build up defenses in Plymouth, and form two healthy fleets. Each fleet will target the aluminum resources now under India’s control. The one in Baghdad will be taken out with stealth bombers on carriers. The one in Kohlapur is in a city bordering the Arabs, and will be taken with troops so this force will have transports and landing units. The landing force will be a settler with a bunch of defensive units. The fleet will contain battleships AEGIS cruisers, carriers, and nuclear subs. Carriers will be equipped with one fighter for defense and three stealth bombers.

    1806-1808
    Demand gold from Gandhi. He refused but is still annoyed.
    Decide to plant a spy “safely” in India. It worked on the first try. This is sweet as now I can see all his unit counts. I record them all on a piece of paper. The military advisor says I need a spy to determine how many units are in each city. I wonder about this.
    I then proceed to try and expose Gandhi’s spy, which works. zerksees is not pleased.
    Boldly I decide to plant a spy in London, and this works as well. What a roll! I again look at all their unit counts and write them down.
    Finally I also try to expose English spy and it fails. Elizabeth is not pleased. Is Japan supposed to be scared by this?

    I also discover India is in anarchy again.
    Sadly for Abu his once pathetic empire is now more pathetic as he has only seven cities left.

    Here are some of the unit counts (in this count J is Japan, I is India and E is England):
    Modern Armor – J267, I97, E54; Mech Inf – J355, I351, E173; Radar Artillery – J124, I53, E22; ICBM – J12, I12, E10; Battleship – J38, I28, E18.
    Japan has over 1000 total units now.
    1810
    MPP with India expires. Of course Japan does not attempt to renew. I don’t recall for sure but I think Ghandi wanted to renew it.

    1812
    India now has forces in my territory. I tell Ghandi to remove his forces or declare war, and he chooses war. This Japanese tiger is ready to roar!

    Japan is teeming with war units. I put them right to work and take all 17 cities India held on Japan’s continent. Two ICBMs were neutralized during these attacks, and taking Paris netted the Pyramids, Smith’s Trading Company and JS Bachs. Ghandi has only two wonders left – Cure for Cancer and Manhattan Project.

    In this new state, it is obvious Japan needs a way to get to the two islands off the south coast of the continent. Rush build some ships to get there, and divert some seafaring units in those directions.

    On the new continent, took and razed three cities near Plymouth.

    Signed MA with England vs India. Asked what they would need for the alliance, and she requested furs. Elizabeth must have a thing for those furs now.

    Made peace with the Arabs. IIRC this is the first time Japan has made peace with anyone. I suspect Japan there won’t be anymore peace treaties like this made. India and England are still at war with the Arabs, and now each other.

    1814-1816
    Took a few more cities south and east of Plymouth. I have decided to keep some of them. It seems as though the Indians are not going to mount an assault on Plymouth, so I get more aggressive and clean out their presence north of Arab territory (in former Mongol territory).
    Landed units on the southeast island in 1814 (former Roman territory) and liberate it (all four cities) from India in 1816.
    Oops I hit the spacebar too early in 1816 and missed out on final movement of units.
    Finally a stack of 57 Indian MI is seen at Balkh, presently Japan’s southern most acquisition from India.

    1818
    The main fleet approaches the new world. The Arab cities have been conquered so Japan can land just north of Kohlapur at the north end of India’s main territory. I unload the settler, all the defensive units and a couple workers on a hill tile. In all 35 units unloaded. The rest – workers, cruise missiles and some radar artillery wait with the fleet for the city to be built.

    I hurriedly move about 15 MA and one MA army into Balkh to defend. The roads are bombed out and MA can just reach the city. Hopefully that stack can defend against the 57 high Indian MI stack.
    To my surprise the Indian MI stack starts retreating.

    Decide to send a small fleet of ships west from Japan’s west coast toward India. This is a third fleet and was not part of the original plan. It has an aircraft carrier and a transport with ground units, supported by some battleships and an AEGIS cruiser.

    1820
    Founded “Ft. Civ Fanatics” north of Kohlapur. Rush built the airport.

    Attacked the fleeing MI stack. Used quite a few MA but knocked the stack down to 29. When it is India’s turn they run again. This time they end on a neutral tile just outside Arab territory. It seems they might escape to Medina. Medina is an Arab city that the Indians took in 1818. Arabs have 3 cities.

    Took Toulose from India, clearing the island off the southeast corner of Japan’s main continent. This is not that significant, except that there were 24 stealth bombers in there that Japan now owns! (See screenshot in next post.) I cannot believe the AI did not use these against Japan as I invaded this island. Surely they could have redlined most of my landing units (I was only bringing one transport load per turn). Just another example of how dumb the AI can be. At least they could have been moved or scuttled. Now they will be used against the Indian fleet that I spotted headed toward the southwest island that Japan conquered in 1816. There are a few Japanese ships there (I would hardly call it a fleet), so they will need help against this attempted counter strike.

    After Japan’s turn was done, Gandhi made his move. He launched his nukes! The first seven ICBMs were intercepted by SDI. Seven more were launched and 4 cities were hit. Xinjian, Konigsberg Road, Salzburg and Buffalo were hit. You may recall that the Mongols hit Xinjian when it belonged to China - I would hate to live there. None of these are significant to Japan, though it appears he may be going after aluminum resources.

    zerksees is now wise to the effects of SDI, and the nuclear attack. I have never been the target of an ICBM before so I did not know what to expect. I want to launch Japan’s ICBM’s immediately in retaliation.

    1822-1824
    But I resist. It appears as Gandhi is out of uranium so I plan to finish him off with conventional war. Instead I move key stack of units away from the potential fallout zone of all cities, as I do not want to lose big stacks of units to nuclear attack.

    Tried sabotage on production of an ICBM being built in Dehli. It cost 4776 in gold, but it worked.

    At the end of 1822 he nukes me again. Only two get through but I am getting fed up. If Gandhi wants nuclear winter he is going to get it. I decide the best way to take out Gandhi is to disable his SDI by taking the city holding it and then nuke him into oblivion! Doing some spying I found his SDI is in Hyderabad, about midway into his territory (I had to investigate several cities before I found it). Send a lone MA army towards it, hoping it makes it there to take over the city after the nukes get through. It takes two turns to get there. Japan already has 12 ICBM’s, so I changed production on 19 cities to ICBM.

    The 57 unit Indian MI stack is now MIA. I was able to destroy it before it made it to any cities.
    Took Kohlapur and Medina. (Medina was an Arab city just captured by India). India had at least 20 MA in Kohlapur but I had enough units to take it.

    1826
    Rush build 19 ICBMs at a cost of about 12000 gold. zerksees means business now! Japan still has 40000+ gold after this impulse buy.
    The MA army is just outside the fallout zone outside Hyderabad. Everything is in place.

    Gandhi is not done. He launches two more ICBMs and one hits. I think the total of hit Japanese cities is now at 7.

    1828
    Japan launches ICBMs at Hyderabad. Four are intercepted. The fifth passes the SDI and scores a hit. There are still units left in there. Did a spy investigate and found two more units in there. OK. More nukes. Launched three more to get another hit. Now there are no units in there. The army crosses the fallout zone and takes the city. Now Gandhi is in trouble. I launch another at Karachi. It hits. My plan is working.

    I pull out my copy of Fabulous Thunderbirds' Tuff Enough and play it. Gandhi is being nuked to the Fabulous Thunderbirds. Ain't that tough enough Gandhi? I nuked all the rest of his cities and every launched nuke hit its target. A few cities were apparently already nuked by England and after I hit one, I bought their map to make sure I didn't nuke any other cities that were already hit. I also nuked Karachi twice so that damaged MA units outside could drive in unopposed. He had one ICBM left in Dehli, so I hit it again but it did not take it out. I decided to take my chances that the SDI would get it.

    All the nuking has really left his army in shambles. All 24 of his cities have now been nuked. What a mess!

    Screenshots to follow.
     
  15. zerksees

    zerksees in remission

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    Ghandi dooming himself - tricked into war:



    24 free stealth bombers:



    AI Gandhi's nuclear winter:

     
  16. Vancouver 2010

    Vancouver 2010 Getting Paid to Code

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    I have but one word to say: WOAH!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:
     
  17. Goober

    Goober Turning Right ...

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    Ohhh . . . it went Nuclear. Well, short and sweet, at least. Why is Leeds of the English Nuked? Are you at war with them as well? I think I missed something there. Anyway, best of luck. You really have changed things a bit around here. I bet you could have just ignored the Nukes the AIs were launching at you, and still survive, you have so many cities. I am not a fan of Nuclear Wars, but SDI does help . . . ME!!!
     
  18. Vancouver 2010

    Vancouver 2010 Getting Paid to Code

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    Yes, I think you did. From what I gathered, India and England were at war, which led to the nukeage of Leeds. (Mmm...creating new verbs...)
     
  19. zerksees

    zerksees in remission

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    About nukes: :nuke:

    These are a tool that can be used to wage war. I prefer not to handcuff myself and let the AI use them while I do not. If there was a UN vote or some other game reason to avoid launching them I would. For that matter, if the AI had not escalated to that level I would not have launched. But since they did I followed. No regrets! In fact I am now much more confident with nuclear strategies, should I need them in the future.

    There is little doubt in my mind that India would have fallen, nukes just expedite the process.

    In real life nukes would be another matter – but this is a game, so I had fun using them to defeat the AI, and exposing its inherent weakness.

    RealGoober:

    To answer a ques from an earlier post: My PC is a Pentium 3 500mhz. The AI part of the turn is only taking a few minutes. It is the manual controlling of all the units that takes me so long, and the processor can’t help me with that.

    For your recent question: England is at war with Arabs and India. I brought England into the war with India with a military alliance in exchange for furs. I have been hearing the ICBM sound and not seeing it land, so other countries are nuking each other. I am guessing that India nuked them Leeds. I also saw that an Arab city was nuked, but it is not clear whether India or England hit them.

    Comments:

    On the main continent I have been building workers to expedite cleaning up the mess.
    I have captured quite a few workers and have 40 or so on the new world continent to start connecting the newly acquired cities. I am about one turn away from completing a railroad line from the north to the south to allow these workers access to the newly acquired cities. They will never get the mess cleaned up before the game ends but at least all the cities will get connected.

    Some of the cities that were nuked are celebrating “we love the shogun” day! They must be happy because it is not way too crowded. This doesn’t seem right. Oh well, I won’t be visiting their cities any time soon!

    I need to speed up the attacks, as Japan is building units faster than I can use them. Japan now has over 1200 units.

    Nuclear attack really slows military advance as all the roads around newly acquired cities are destroyed. To counter this I plan to send large stacks of MA into enemy territory to clean up, and the workers reconnecting cities will speed up the advance to the front lines in a few turns.

    In 1830, Bangalore, New Dehli and Dacca all fell to Japan. I put up a wall of units near Hyderabad across the narrow part of the continent to block England from sending down units and taking over the weakened cities further south. If they want cities they will have to access them from their border with India.

    Funny in 1784 I thought the game was basically over. While the outcome was decided, I had no idea then that everyone would be launching nukes, with me being the worst offender!


    Another update in a week or two...
     
  20. Goober

    Goober Turning Right ...

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    So you can capture Stealth Bombers, eh? To bad I have never played a game until the AIs get Stealth Bombers. I should try it sometime . . .
     

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