Can someone explain the Culture victory once and for all?

[EpicWestern]

National Parks have some very strict placement ruled that are actually pretty well documented in the Civilopedia.

Seaside Resorts are another kettle of fish. The documentation states that they can be built on desert, Plains, and grassland tiles with Breathtaking appeal. What it doesn't say is that they can't have hills or floodplain. And probably other limitations that I haven't discovered yet.

I'm building the Eiffel Tower in hopes that it will open up some tiles for Resorts.

Resorts and Eiffel Tower I don't quite get yet. My guess is that the appeal of your tiles has some sort of effect on the tourism generated per turn, but its unclear how and to what extent. At the moment it just seems like a dead wonder, I cant possibly imagine that increasing the appeal of a few tiles is remotely worth the production cost.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Resorts and Eiffel Tower I don't quite get yet. My guess is that the appeal of your tiles has some sort of effect on the tourism generated per turn, but its unclear how and to what extent. At the moment it just seems like a dead wonder, I cant possible imagine that increases the appeal of a few tiles is remotely worth the production cost.

The ET can raise Average appeal to Charming and Charming to Breathtaking, allowing you to construct more National Parks and Seaside Resorts, which have minimum appeal requirements.

 

[EpicWestern]

The ET can raise Average appeal to Charming and Charming to Breathtaking, allowing you to construct more National Parks and Seaside Resorts, which have minimum appeal requirements.

Yes, that's what it does I'm saying I don't think its remotely worth the cost especially since with a city with a lot of districts there aren't many (if any) spots for a national park anyway.

It also doesn't really make sense from a flavor perspective either. The Eiffel Tower is a place surrounded by seaside resorts and national parks?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Yes, that's what it does I'm saying I don't think its remotely worth the cost especially since with a city with a lot of districts there aren't many (if any) spots for a national park anyway.

It also doesn't really make sense from a flavor perspective either. The Eiffel Tower is a place surrounded by seaside resorts and national parks?

The bonus is not just for the city it's built in. You could build it in your production city and then construct Parks and Resorts in your less developed cities.

 

[Magil]

To win a culture victory you pretty much only need to spam out national parks and costal resorts. Great works are nice but not needed but given that they give culture and culture give you parks it is pretty nice to get some theater districts.

Faith is an important resources because faith is what you pay to found parks.

Well in my Kongo game I won culturally from Great Works before I even unlocked the tech to make Seaside Resorts...

 

[dexters]

Do you see 408 on top of your screen? That's only your tourism, but not tourists. 321 then is probably visiting tourists you attract.

In CV screen you see your tourism + your culture (just mouse over) = your domestic tourists number = your defence. If you have the largest number, you're the last barrier before someone else wins culture.

Then on the very right you see fraction number x/y, where x is how many visiting tourists you attract from other civs, and y is domestic tourism (tourism+culture) of the leading civ.
y for everyone will be the same except the leader, which will have to overcome the second largest domestic tourism.

Then there is Tourism lens, where you can see your visiting tourists to your sights and how many tourism each object generates per turn and lifetime accumulation

In short as I understand, you must generate culture + tourism as defence, and at the same time your wonders, theater districts, great works, artifacts, while adding to your defence, also attract tourists from other countries. This is further modified by various factors: same or different government, presence or absence of the Enlightenment for religious tourists etc., haven't figured it out completely yet.

Ok took some screenshots; so if I understood you correctly I am generating 406 tourists internally (from the top screen UI)

and digging into the culture VC screen
Of those 406 ; 325 are vacationing internally (at my wonders, resorts etc) & I an receiving 212 foreign tourists. With VC win being 322 tourists, or +1 more than the internal tourist output of my closest rival (321 internal tourist from Greece)

What I don't get is why the 406 don't match the 325 ; does it mean 406-325 = 81 of my tourists are vacationing externally? This feels like City Skylines all of a sudden. LOL.

 

[Dux1]

What I don't get is why the 406 don't match the 325 ; does it mean 406-325 = 81 of my tourists are vacationing externally? This feels like City Skylines all of a sudden. LOL.

I think that is exactly what it means, but that still doesn't explain how it arrives at those numbers. In this case, it seems like quite close to exactly 80% of your total tourism output is being counted as "domestic" while the rest is being divided among the other civilizations, but this is probably just the way the numbers happened to line up in your particular example.

 

[dexters]

I think that is exactly what it means, but that still doesn't explain how it arrives at those numbers. In this case, it seems like quite close to exactly 80% of your total tourism output is being counted as "domestic" while the rest is being divided among the other civilizations, but this is probably just the way the numbers happened to line up in your particular example.

I assume my cultural output + tourism destinations impact how many of my tourists stay home. This would make sense as part of the push/pull of tourism. But how these numbers are arrived at is hard to figure out.

 

[comet]

There was a thread on here that tried to explain this but for some reason I can't seem to find it.

The gist of it was as follows:

On the cultural victory screen, if you see, for example, 25/150, it means you are attracting 25 foreign tourists and you need 150 to win via culture. The 150 number comes from the highest number of domestic tourists attracted by one of the AIs, so it means one of the AIs has 150 domestic tourists and every other AI has some smaller amount than that. If you are going for a culture victory and doing well, YOU probably attract more domestic tourists than everyone else, so the AI victory conditions might be something like 10/250 because you have 250 domestic tourists.

The tourist system does not seem to be a push/pull system like in CiV, but more of an aggregation. Basically the thread suggested that after generating a certain amount of tourism, you attract a foreign tourist. The number suggested this was 200 for standard speed I believe. In other words, if you get a great work with +4 tourism, and do not generate any other tourism, after 50 turns you will gain 1 foreign tourist who wants to see your sick relic or whatever. This system would suggest you cannot lose tourists and there are no tourism modifiers for individual civilizations like sharing religion, open borders, etc, since it implies the tourists you gained are essentially one from each civilization.

This would imply that domestic tourists are your "defense" in the sense that it increases the number of foreign tourists required to win the game. The thread, at least at the time I read it, did not go into this part much, but the logical corollary would be that you generate domestic tourists based on your culture.

Again, this is just me going from memory of this thread I am unable to find and isn't anything confirmed, but there was considerable effort made by a user whose name escapes me to figure out how exactly you gain a foreign tourist.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

No the 406 is your tourism/turn


The 212 is produced by adding up all the foreign tourists...which for each individual civ seems linked to your total tourism against that civ (the 406 this turn modified by things like enlightenment, governments, trade, etc. and then added to the total)
43
38
45
42
(kongo is 44)

Standard speed seems to be about a 1 tourist : 200 lifetime tourism (so each turn you should get ~2 new tourists each turn from each of them)

The 325 that is your domestic tourism is the one that is the most uncertain... most likely it is just your lifetime culture with some ratio...but it might also include your lifetime tourism "on yourself"

What are the lifetime tourism for each civ and your lifetime culture (I remember seeing those listed somewhere)

 

[Cyon]

Just realised that breathtaking can vary, it means an appeal of at least 6 but it can be higher. I built a seaside resort next to both tiles of GBR which has an appeal of 9! That means it generates 18 turism instead of normal 12 (6x2).

 

[Zyxpsilon]

All i know is that in my very first game. Bloody_wise_grey_beard_and_gold_helmet Pericles had a wildly powerful knack for Culture & of course, Tourism.. but, weirdly he also showed up a "cheaty" set of values in the World-Rankings list. While everyone were listed as much as twice his (required) amount(s). What gives?

Before my Cleopatra could even reach Information/Era (was going for Science)... bang -- DEFEAT!

 

[lamaros]

Why do we have so many threads posting the same thing over and over on this forum? Does everyone have to start their own rather than continuing the discussion?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/tourism-and-other-numbers.600729/

 

[Dux1]

There was a thread on here that tried to explain this but for some reason I can't seem to find it.

The gist of it was as follows:

On the cultural victory screen, if you see, for example, 25/150, it means you are attracting 25 foreign tourists and you need 150 to win via culture. The 150 number comes from the highest number of domestic tourists attracted by one of the AIs, so it means one of the AIs has 150 domestic tourists and every other AI has some smaller amount than that. If you are going for a culture victory and doing well, YOU probably attract more domestic tourists than everyone else, so the AI victory conditions might be something like 10/250 because you have 250 domestic tourists.

The tourist system does not seem to be a push/pull system like in CiV, but more of an aggregation. Basically the thread suggested that after generating a certain amount of tourism, you attract a foreign tourist. The number suggested this was 200 for standard speed I believe. In other words, if you get a great work with +4 tourism, and do not generate any other tourism, after 50 turns you will gain 1 foreign tourist who wants to see your sick relic or whatever. This system would suggest you cannot lose tourists and there are no tourism modifiers for individual civilizations like sharing religion, open borders, etc, since it implies the tourists you gained are essentially one from each civilization.

This would imply that domestic tourists are your "defense" in the sense that it increases the number of foreign tourists required to win the game. The thread, at least at the time I read it, did not go into this part much, but the logical corollary would be that you generate domestic tourists based on your culture.

Again, this is just me going from memory of this thread I am unable to find and isn't anything confirmed, but there was considerable effort made by a user whose name escapes me to figure out how exactly you gain a foreign tourist.

This is a really good breakdown. The only big mystery remaining, as far I can tell, is how "domestic tourism" is calculated.

 

[lamaros]

This is a really good breakdown. The only big mystery remaining, as far I can tell, is how "domestic tourism" is calculated.

Except it's also incorrect in parts.

Tourism is calculated per other civ, there are modifiers (are the additive or do they compound?) , etc.

 

[DocRock]

Likely you need better multipliers. Various effects in the double or triple your tourism or specific parts of it, and you basically need all of those. Even if you have 20 pieces of art or writing that's only 40 tourism generated per turn without any multiplier. Late game for my cultural victory I was generating 500 tourism per turn. The amount of tourists you generate per turn is based on your tourism but its generally between 2 and 5 late game.

Naturalists are annoying and it took me a while to figure it out, buts its completely worth it since it grants a huge tourism bonus. Your naturalist can only be activated if its within a four tile diamond, none of the tiles have any improvements, all of the tiles have appeal of charming or better, and all of the tiles are within the same city. The last part is key, what counts as being "in the city" means the tiles are workable (but not necessarily worked) by that city. So to use a naturalist you need to first mouse over various (non-district) parts of your city to check their appeal. If you can find a diamond (4 tiles together) all with appeal charming or better, great. Next make sure are the tiles are workable by the same city. If necessary, swap tiles so that they are. Then use a builder to remove any improvements on any of those tiles. Then if your naturalist is within one of those tiles it should work.

Thanks for the explanation. But I think I got plenty of multipliers, I. e. the relics all give between 12 and 16 tourism. As I said, I grabbed everything I could. I just found this very counter-intuitive. I have so much tourism and culture and the AI seems to have none (barely any theaters, no relics, no wonders etc) and I still seem to be miles away from a victory.

Yes I know that different government are a problem, but am I supposed to give up democracy and go back to some ancient one to win cultural? Is it needed to spread a religion? In 5, a proper tourism forced them into your ideology because of happiness. That's not in here.

It somehow feels that while I'm completely dominating the game, nothing really. happens.

Ok have to check for the parks, but honestly that sounds really annoying.

 

[Yzman]

I won a tourism victory ( on settler since I was just playing around) and I can't even tell you how I got it.

 

[Big J Money]

This is a really good breakdown. The only big mystery remaining, as far I can tell, is how "domestic tourism" is calculated.

Yeah, this isn't even completely correct. The 1 per 200 is a number out of someone's arse. Also, many people are ignoring the Tourism Lens, which shows where your foreign Tourists are located, specifically. Sometimes I'll have 1 hex with 96 Tourism and 1 Tourist. Sometimes I'll have 400+ Tourism with only 2 Tourists.

I almost feel like they couldn't have made this more complicated if they had tried. I wonder if the locational based aspect of Tourists is even gameplay significant (i.e. does capturing a city with Tourist hexes actually do anything).

 

[PhilBowles]

Faith is an important resources because faith is what you pay to found parks.

It was far too late in the process before I learned that, and I used faith I shouldn't have to accelerate GPs I'd probably have obtained anyway - so I only have one park, and suitable areas for two coastal resorts. I'm wonder-spamming, grabbing/stealing great works and relics. and maxing out on tourism and culture-related civics. While I've been the unchallenged leader for some time in cultural terms, I'm not filling up the victory counter quickly (fortunately Egypt seems equally stalled on religious victory); my tourism is around 420 - it's on a huge map, and I don't know how map size/civ number impacts tourism.

I'd expected to win culturally convincingly by now - instead the game's late enough that I'm going for a science victory as a backup plan, as although I'm not the most advanced civ and several other civs have spaceports (one of which I sabotaged at least temporarily), none of the other civs appear to have made any attempt to launch satellites or construct modules (and it just so happens the lunar module gives a huge culture boost).

 

[3 EMS]

My question is the numbers on the top of the screen don't add up with what I'm seeing in the VC tab.

I get something like 408 tourism per turn but my VC screens says I have 321 from other nations.

Is this because if multiplier buildings ?

You have visiting tourists and domestic tourists. You need to have more visiting tourists than any other civ has domestic tourists.
It might say:
MyCiv 256/500
The 500 represents what any other civ would need one more than to win a culture. I was leading so that was my number. It was the same for all civs listed so it must just be the number to beat.
The 236 represents visiting tourists.
I'm starting to get lost here but that's the jist of how to read that screen.