Can we really blame most of the insurgents in IRAQ?

[Xanikk999]

Before you respond READ THIS!

Imagine that the iraq war never happened or nevermind it could of happened its irrelevent i suppose.

Heres the scenario:

Whats happened is YOUR country has been invaded by liberators claiming to free from your oppressors, in the case of the U.S for me, that would be Bush.
These occupiers want to model your countries government after THERES. They would install a puppet government for the time being while they get YOU the insurgents under control.

Would you use insurgent and guerrila tactics to drive away the invaders or would you just not care?

I can tell you i would be driving away the foriegn occupiers as best as i could! However i would not target civilians.

 

[theimmortal1]

They are Islamic fundamentalists. We were at war with them way before we entered Iraq. They just came out of the woodwork and strapped on a bomb.

I odn't blame them for using 'insurgent or guerrila' tactics. They can use whatever tactics they want to use.

 

[Irish Caesar]

However i would not target civilians.

It seems that your answer is "yes."

 

[PrincepsAmerica]

Yes we can.

A proper analogy would be if Bush killed his way to power, then systematically murdered millions of Americans. If Canada then invaded and did their best to avoid civilian casualties while setting up a legitimate democratic government the worst I would feel is anger towards my fellow Americans for not doing it ourselves.

I certainly wouldn't attack the small contingent of Canadian troops let alone slaughter thousands of my innocent fellow Americans for collaborating with them or just for going about their daily business as Iraqis seem to like to do to one another. Then again America doesn't have a tradition of vicious tribal violence so I'm not blaming them individually.

 

[Xanikk999]

It seems that your answer is "yes."

Ok now i saw i wrote something stupid. What i really meant is i would try not to target civilians and use guerrila tactics.

 

[Irish Caesar]

Ok now i saw i wrote something stupid. What i really meant is i would try not to target civilians and use guerrila tactics.

Oh no, I understood you, and it sounds like you said what you meant. I'm saying that your question is "can we blame them?" If you would act differently in the same situation and think they should, too, your answer to the question you're asking is therefore "yes."

 

[Xanikk999]

Yes we can.

A proper analogy would be if Bush killed his way to power, then systematically murdered millions of Americans. If Canada then invaded and did their best to avoid civilian casualties while setting up a legitimate democratic government the worst I would feel is anger towards my fellow Americans for not doing it ourselves.

I certainly wouldn't attack the small contingent of Canadian troops let alone slaughter thousands of my innocent fellow Americans for collaborating with them or just for going about their daily business as Iraqis seem to like to do to one another. Then again America doesn't have a tradition of vicious tribal violence so I'm not blaming them individually.

Yes its not the same but yout anology is incorrect also.

We installed helped Saddam to power in iraq originally, and then WE removed him in the end so we pretty much screwed thier country up for the past 37 years or so.

 

[RedWolf]

Yes we can.
I certainly wouldn't attack the small contingent of Canadian troops let alone slaughter thousands of my innocent fellow Americans for collaborating with them or just for going about their daily business as Iraqis seem to like to do to one another. Then again America doesn't have a tradition of vicious tribal violence so I'm not blaming them individually.

So then what do you suspect is wrong with the Iraqi people? Are they inherently violent? Barbaric? Stupid?

Depsite your lofty intentions the reality is that people at war (of all cultures) do terrible, nasty things to one another. You can see it Northern Ireland, The Balkans, Africa etc.

 

[Atlas14]

How can we not blame them? We have made it clear that our only purpose at this point is to preserve Iraqi govt. security, when the insurgents are taking cheap shots and gunning down our troops everyday, they are asking for the situation they are in now.

 

[sysyphus]

I blame anyone who commits an act of violence for their actions, whether it is an illegal invasion or an act of retailation. There is no excuse for violence.

Besides, most of the insurgents are not Iraqi.

 

[PrincepsAmerica]

So then what do you suspect is wrong with the Iraqi people? Are they inherently violent? Barbaric? Stupid?

I specifically said there is anything wrong with the Iraqi people, as a whole though they have an unfortunate Shia/Sunni conflict which has resulted in a very large amount of civilian violence.

For those who do the bombings I think those are largely Baathists and terrorists like Al-Qaeda who want chaos for specific goals.

Thanks for assuming I'm some kind of racist though, always appreciated.

 

[RedWolf]

I specifically said there is anything wrong with the Iraqi people, as a whole though they have an unfortunate Shia/Sunni conflict which has resulted in a very large amount of civilian violence.

For those who do the bombings I think those are largely Baathists and terrorists like Al-Qaeda who want chaos for specific goals.

Thanks for assuming I'm some kind of racist though, always appreciated.

I'm not calling you a racist - I just think that you're not fully considering what you're saying.

You're claiming that you certainly wouldn't do what they're doing... that WE wouldn't do what they're doing. Then why are THEY doing it?

The OP's point was that most people would react as they have and therefore you can't "blame" them. You're disagreeing - so my question is why?

I maintain that their reaction is a result of human nature - however flawed that may be.

 

[PrincepsAmerica]

Yes its not the same but yout anology is incorrect also.

We installed helped Saddam to power in iraq originally, and then WE removed him in the end so we pretty much screwed thier country up for the past 37 years or so.

Ok well then if we were wrong for putting him into power (which we didn't we only assisted if we were involved at all) then surely it was right of us to remove him from power. Not that this much affects the rest of my analogy.

I'm not calling you a racist - I just think that you're not fully considering what you're saying.

You're claiming that you certainly wouldn't do what they're doing... that WE wouldn't do what they're doing. Then why are THEY doing it?

The OP's point was that most people would react as they have and therefore you can't "blame" them. You're disagreeing - so my question is why?

I maintain that their reaction is a result of human nature - however flawed that may be.

I told you my exact opinions. I'm not an expert on the region by any means though so take it with a grain of salt. I am an expert on myself and am a citizen of America and as such I can say that I would not participate in such actions and in my opinion neither would Americans, in any amount comparable to incidents in Iraq, either.

 

[PrincepsAmerica]

egh double that post

 

[RedWolf]

Thanks for assuming I'm some kind of racist though, always appreciated.

I do apologize if my post implied that - I really just chose any post of the opposite opinion to debate - wasn't trying to single you out.

 

[El_Machinae]

I find the cowardly targetting of civilians to be deplorable. Any legitimate insurgency that does exist is being utterly drowed out by the violence and short-sighted idiots.

 

[RedWolf]

I am an expert on myself and am a citizen of America and as such I can say that I would not participate in such actions and in my opinion neither would Americans, in any amount comparable to incidents in Iraq, either.

Then why does it always happen anyway? Let's take Yukoslavia for example - people who lived side by side in relative peace turned on each other like rabid dogs when the shooting started... People who probably claimed they would never do such a thing. Atrocities were committed from both sides even during the American revolution and Civil Wars. It's in all of us - every culture I believe - It just takes the right situation for it to boil to the surface.

 

[PrincepsAmerica]

Then why does it always happen anyway? Let's take Yukoslavia for example - people who lived side by side in relative peace turned on each other like rabid dogs when the shooting started... People who probably claimed they would never do such a thing. Atrocities were committed from both sides even during the American revolution and Civil Wars. It's in all of us - every culture I believe - It just takes the right situation for it to boil to the surface.

Perhaps, but then the thread's question isn't whether or not such actions happen. The question of the thread is whether we can blame people for such actions. I firmly believe we can, firstly because people are responsible for their actions obviously and most especially because the bombing of civilians and the death squad-style murders that have been rampant are wrong no matter what.

 

[Fifty]

Muslims are evil.

 

[scipian]

If I were in Iraq's position I would love to be invaded. If we had a murdering thug who gassed countless civilians, squandered billions of dollars while his country starved, destroyed all semblance of democracy, got us into a COMPLETELY pointless millions+ casualty war, invaded the UK and proceeded to get decimated, and then started openly threatening other nations about nuking them, I'd gladly accept foreign invaders. I'd sign up and join the new police corps and violently and vehemently put down those fighting our occupiers.

The "freedom fighters" are no more than thugs who have been looking for an excuse to cause instability and attempt to gain power.

P.S.- Please don't make yourself look idiotic by saying that we already have someone in power like I described (i.e., Bush). Bush isn't great but not THAT bad.