Can't beat prince

Haha, ok sounds good. Not used to this much amount of guidance - I'm more used to stackoverflow's method of "ask a direct relevant question with all the right details and show all of the work you've done or we'll close your question." I'll be more patient and wait for you all to have more time to show me some steps.

Let me know if you want me to start up a new game or do anything.
 
I always ask myself why especially the beginners get such horrible maps. Maybe it's because Pangaea is a rich mapscript and they usually don't play it, but seriously, a Jungle map that has a 5 food capital and then no 2nd city spot that has food accessable without IW or that isn't completely Jungled?

Doesn't matter, the last map you got is imo. ok or even great :) .

First of all: It's not intuitive, but you can farm Pigs + Cows and you can also Mine Pigs and Sheep if they're on a Hill. By that you can skip researching a very costly tech which is Animal Husbandry. I write that because on your screens you have a capital with Corn + a farmed FP and are probably researching AH for pasturing the Pigs. AH for Horses is a good idea because you don't have Copper yet, but in the case of that capital you should nonetheless mine the Pigs because you already are at +7 :food: and +6-8 :food: surplus is what you should aim for (this answers your question whether to farm or cottage FPs) .

Regarding the opening in general. After 5y of non-stop CIVving but already earlier I found out that Worker, Warriors 'til size 3 and then Settler gives you the fastest Settler in almost any case. If your land is very highly contested and there is a spot for a 2nd city that you must take, then it's Settler at size 2. If the land is not much contested, then you can go Settler at size 4 or even 5 if you have very many sources of :food: . If you research BW, the fastest Settler is at size 4 with a 2-pop-whip. Whipping size 6 -> 3 is the most efficient, however whipping 4 -> 2 or 5 -> 3 gives you the first Settlers so much earlier that it's definitely worth it if the land is contested.
Whipping without a Granary is not very efficient btw. so unless you really need BW for Barb-defense I wouldn't research it but beeline Alpha. This contradicts the advice you've been given afaik. It fits with my advice above though. Research AH or BW for the strategic resource, if you have a strategic resource you're fine, don't research it for its extra abilities but then better beeline Alpha and trade for all minor techs in one big pack. Beelining Alpha is the strongest approach there is and some players still not have adapted towards it because some years ago it was the belief that researching all the minor techs to get the benefit of the improvements is worth it, this is only in very few cases true. For BW + TW + Pottery or for BW + Sailing + Pottery or whatever you can get Alpha and you don't need BW + AH in the beginning, decide for one if you play with Barbs, if you play without them like me or can do with only Warriors (difficult but possible, because Barbs cannot spawn in a 5x5 area around a unit so you can use Wariors offensively to prevent the Barb spawn in first place) you can skip both, try to get Alpha as early as possible as it's basically "free" if you can skip 2-3 techs to get it.

Regarding your map in specific: The difficult thing on that map is to find the right city spots. 1S of the Pigs is one, it's the strongest spot you could have for a 2nd city. Because the area with the Golds is so very valuable because there are just so many resources I'd settle a city 1NW of the western Wine. Gets you 3 Golds, you'll need to farm some FPs to work them and the city has no "real" source of :food: but it's a good one with claiming 5 resources and will make a lot of :commerce: later. Maybe you can get away with founding the Pigs city 2nd, it's especially so good because it has a real source of :food: (and a strong one) , Forests and will also have an instant river-connection towards your capital if you road the tile from your capital towards the river, giving you a Traderoute (TR) .
The next valuable city spots that you should claim are the Cows towards the south (best probable location 1SW of them to have them accessable from the start, if you were CRE I'd advise you to settle them in the 2nd ring and settle near the river for freshwater) and then a spot that you really need to get but that will probably not be contested until very late are the Elephants. I'd settle on the Ivory because it's coastal, it's a 2 :hammers: tile and the spot has some FPs which you can use as a source of :food: (in that case, because you want at least +6 :food: surplus you'll need to farm them both) .
The Plains-Cows / Furs spot towards the west is not very valuable as you'll get the Furs with the next borderpop from the capital anyhow (make sure to improve them, early Luxury is very important, especially with whipping) and Plains Cows are not really a "real" source of :food: , they're more like a hill that gives :food: .

So that would be the order in which i settle, eastern Pigs if possible, then the FPs / Gold spot to claim a lot of resources, then the southern Cows because it's a good spot that must not be taken by the AI towards the south and on the Ivory as a 4th city and the Plains Cows are only as a filler-city for later. This gives you 4 cities (+1 filler-city later = 5 at max) . Now normally you should get 6-7 cities if you peacefully settle because you need 6 cities on standard map size for certain National Wonders, 6-7 cities is optimal for a Cuirrs rush also though. This map however is a special case because you have Ivory and Ivory is always a special case as War Elephants are a superior unit that completely changes the gameplay. With Ivory you'll definitely want to go for an Elephants + Catapult rush (called "Elepult" ) and for that one 3-4 cities are optimal, this fits very well with the city-spots that I named, just settle the first 4 and leave the Plains-Cows-filler-city for until after the rush.

Regarding the start from before: It's very important to improve the strongest source of :food: first and that would have been the Corn. Workers also multiply by their actions with time, that's why Worker first would have been the right choice. The seafood is good because it gives :commerce: , with FIN you can count every coastal tile as a Cottage so that would have allowed you to skip Cottages for a while. You in that case should have researched BW definitely because you'd not have been able to get out 2 WBs with the city growing as fast as it would have and with the land not being contested I'd have proposed Settlers at size 5.

Hth :) .
 
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

thanks for all of your help !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

all of the suggestions really made the difference - don't build too many units - build more workers - settle with food and focus on food - have 6 cities by 1 BC - whip whip whip whip the units - whip whip whip some more - i never hit a point where i wasn't whipping units

at 1BC i had the biggest elephant rush i think i've ever seen and completely rolled over monty and eventually ended up with a domination win;

probably an ugly win and could've done a lot better but atleast i got my first prince win!

i'm going to take a long break from civ iv and study for my test that i should've been studying for
 

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Congrats on your first Prince win! :goodjob:

Looking at the screenshot, here's a few suggestions for how to improve for the next game. First of all, did you play with vassal states on? If you did, then take advantage of it. The first AI is often worth conquering completely, but after that, only take the cities that really benefit you, then accept capitulation as soon as possible so that you can move on to the next target. Often this means taking 3 cities in 2-3 turns, then accept capitulation and immediately give the AI back the cities you captured (later in the game it would take too much resources to make a freshly captured city pay off). If you have vassal states turned off or don't want to capitulate someone for some reason, then kill them completely. If you leave them with one city, all captured cities will have a lot of "We yearn to join our motherland" unhappiness. This goes away as soon as the motherland civ is wiped out.

You have a ton of gold, but slider at only 30%. Gold is mainly needed for one thing in this game, to keep your research slider up (and sometimes to upgrade offensive units when you reach a new military tech). If you have gold, then research at 100%.

In the screenshot I can see that all visible cities are defended by infantry. Did you use gold to upgrade defenders in cities? Don't. Even in the late game warriors are just as efficient as military police as in the early game, if you know a city won't be attacked. Most of your cities face no risk of being attacked.

In the late game it's time to rethink your economy and tile improvements. I can see you haven't researched biology. That's a very important tech as it increases food output of your farms. Food is king, remember. ;)

Another very strong late game tactic is to tech communism and run State Property and Caste System, then spam workshops all over the place. With Guilds, Chemistry, Caste System and State Property, a grassland workshop is 2:food:4:hammers: and a plains workshop is 1:food:5:hammers:. That makes them as strong as iron/copper mines. Now imagine you have a large city with an iron/copper mine on every non-resource flatland tile it works. The production is insane. The production can be used not only for producing military and necessary buildings, but also for building wealth to keep your slider at 100% at all times. Don't build those workshops too early though, they are not as good until you have at least guilds and chemistry. Usually you rework your lands around the time you reach communism. Group your workers together in groups of 6 to reduce micro, then they can build one workshop/turn. (Or even better, make groups of 5 before reaching communism to build workshops to one turn from completion on the tiles where you want them, then when you hit state property you only need one worker/tile to finish the workshops in one turn.) Don't demolish towns though, especially not around your capital.

Taking a break is always good. After that you could for example check out the latest Nobles' Club game. By then there is probably a lot of discussion in the thread already about various opening strategies and possible ways to play the map. You can play your own game at desired difficulty (why not crank it up to monarch ;)), post about it in the thread for feedback, and read about and learn from how other players have approached the map.
 
Thanks for all of your input! I really appreciated your comment earlier on about building too many essentially useless military units and to instead keeping an eye on the AI for incoming attacks. I put more focus on build orders that helped the economy and I think that ultimately made a better difference. Also, the "food is king" advice and the cities sharing some spots advice from all of you here was really helpful because I realized I was able to whip a huge army much much quicker than just trying to rush early and then trying to build the army later.

Lastly, thanks for that point about the late game workshops. After conquering my 2nd civ, I was trying to figure out a good wincondition and I realized that I didn't really have any good production cities. For the most part, my entire army was just built from whipping like 15+ cities and I didn't know how to turn a city into a production powerhouse if I had wanted to do a space race build. Eventually, I realized that I had a huge army of riflemen and most of the other civs were still stuck on macemen, so I just figured that I would try and steamroll them rather than try and do something else.

Anyway, looking forward to checking out the Nobles' Clubs games. Thanks.
 
Congratulations on the win, monkai! Now do all that 2000 years earlier ;)

In seriousness though there are still tons to learn, and reading between the lines of your commentary on that win I see many concerns.

There's still plenty to learn and you've still not tried to work with us on improving your early game.

Just to put things into perspective for you, most of us here playing a Prince Pangaea map and going for Domination would try to win the game in the BCs.
 
yeah, I agree with your assessment. There were a lot of points where I realized I was probably doing something inefficient and I still have a lot to learn from you guys. Its just that I didn't have time to wait with school piling up in the next couple of weeks :P I think I got to the point where I realized I had a huge power lead and I wanted to just win as ugly as possible on Prince because I had been trying for the better part of a year on and off for a prince win.

Thanks for all of your input, and after taking a break, I will be looking through your guides and videos to see how I can improve and tinker with early game strategies, so I can get an earlier win.
 
Good luck with that break. When I was in college, Civ 4 was a brand new game and I definitely didn't do a good job taking breaks.
 
No barbs can spawn within 2 tiles from any other unit (you can think of a 5x5 square centered on every unit)

I lurked a lot here few times ago and I don't recall having heard this once. I always through it was only if a tile was seen or not that was relevent. Is it something new we found out or did I just missed the thing ? :confused: Anyway, gonna make some savings on unit supply from now one :D
 
I lurked a lot here few times ago and I don't recall having heard this once. I always through it was only if a tile was seen or not that was relevent. Is it something new we found out or did I just missed the thing ? :confused: Anyway, gonna make some savings on unit supply from now one :D

It have been known for many years now(since 2008?). And yes, it makes it much easier to keep those barbs away :)
 
I lurked a lot here few times ago and I don't recall having heard this once. I always through it was only if a tile was seen or not that was relevent. Is it something new we found out or did I just missed the thing ? :confused: Anyway, gonna make some savings on unit supply from now one :D
With units it's a 2 tile radius around existing units (AI units and other barb units also prevent new barbs from spawning). Your cultural borders only spawn visible tiles, barbs can spawn 2 tiles from your borders if the tile is not seen.

Also, I think barb cities can spawn on any tile that is not seen, also within 2 tiles of another unit. They spawn on tiles with blue circles (those blue circles that you can see with a settler selected, suggesting crappy spots to settle).
 
Also, I think barb cities can spawn on any tile that is not seen, also within 2 tiles of another unit. .

yeah...I've definitely seen that happen. Weird that a barb can't spawn but a city can, but it's probably completely separate coding.
 
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