Capital Location Voting

[Arkipeller]

Red:

SIP Bananas PH
Aivoturso 0,5 1 0
Bowsling 1 0 0,5
Socralynnek 0,5 0,33 1
bcool 0,33 1 0,5
YossarianLives 0 1 0,5
Caledorn 1 0 0
grant2004 0 1 0
Arkipeller 0,5 1 0
DaveShack 0 1 0
cav_scout 1 0 0
RegentMan 0,5 1 0,33
vranasm 0,5 1 0
bistrita 1 0 0
Majic 0,5 1 0,33
whb 1 0 0,5
2metraninja 1 0 0
TOTAL: 9,33 9,33 3,17

That is IF we disable "North-Pole" as an answer and move every vote of Socra into 1-2-3 positions.

What did you mean with a tie-breaker? Logically I find it hard to say that we are by this voting agreed on the matter.

And BTW: You forgot one of our major players... I am pretty sure I've read Sommer's vote somewhere

 

[vranasm]

I could have manipulated the vote with removing 0.5 from SIP you know?... I even talked about this in different thread.

to me this voting system doesn't tell the picture in a good way

 

[Aivoturso]

What did you mean with a tie-breaker? Logically I find it hard to say that we are by this voting agreed on the matter.

My main point was that unfortunately, I forgot to take tie in to account since ties are quite rare with Borda count. So yes, IF we do not count the North Pole we don't have clear agreement. However, IMO discounting the North Pole would be twisting the rules post-hoc. So IMO the discussion about tie-breakers is not really relevant for this vote.

What can be used as tie-breaker in Borda count is the number of 1st rank votes (9 for bananas, 6 for SIP in this case). If there still is tie then 2nd ranks and so on.

 

[Arkipeller]

My main point was that unfortunately, I forgot to take tie in to account since ties are quite rare with Borda count. So yes, IF we do not count the North Pole we don't have clear agreement. However, IMO discounting the North Pole would be twisting the rules post-hoc. So IMO the discussion about tie-breakers is not really relevant for this vote.

What can be used as tie-breaker in Borda count is the number of 1st rank votes (9 for bananas, 6 for SIP in this case). If there still is tie then 2nd ranks and so on.

The thing is that Sommer's vote is not here either. I've been scouring through older discussion-threads and last time he said anything it this matter he was pro-SIP.

The Borda does not count if a player don't see a difference between two of the possibilities as I do. If I could I would give 0,75 to both of SIP and Bananas, since I find it hard to choose between them.

I suggest we wait for Sommer.

 

[YossarianLives]

I agree that if Sommers wants to weigh in at any time before we play our turn, his vote should act as the "tie breaker".

Alternatively, since 2metra is a Captain and Turnplayer, if he wants to log in and make a decision based on the team's input and votes, I would be comfortable with whatever action he chooses to take (even though I voted anything but SIP, and he voted only SIP).

If neither of these things happens, though, and we start to get closer to the 24-hour mark from when the game was re-loaded, then I think we should go with the very slight lead that Bananas had in this vote. To this end, we need to determine who is our turnplayer for now. The following turns will go quickly, with little to do other than moving the warrior, and we don't want to hold up the game just because we don't know who is playing for us.

 

[2metraninja]

I will be gone out of civ for 3 days starting tomorrow, so whatever is decided about settling place, someone else should play our turn - Cavscout, bistrita - I think you guys volunteered for turnplaying.

I would have waited for Sommerswerd to take his decision about settling too. It is pretty drawn

 

[socralynnek]

Don't tell me that it is really so close, that North-Pole makes a difference...
The thing is: Me preferring PH and SIP over bananas is neither backed by tests nor by me being a really experienced player.

I am too far behind top-players skill-wise to really qualify for such decisions ( as I was much closer to top players in Civ3, I have a feeling for the gap that I have in Civ4)

Therefore I made my vote count less ( I was thinking about not voting at all for similar reasons as Sommerswerd, but I wanted to put in my opinion though)

 

[Majic]

I've made some tests, but not near enough to get a clear picture of whats best in the long run. I just got a feeling banana was the fastest start. However, I will withdraw my votes and let people who've actually tested all three possibilities decide.

 

[Bowsling]

Don't tell me that it is really so close, that North-Pole makes a difference...
The thing is: Me preferring PH and SIP over bananas is neither backed by tests nor by me being a really experienced player.

I am too far behind top-players skill-wise to really qualify for such decisions ( as I was much closer to top players in Civ3, I have a feeling for the gap that I have in Civ4)

Therefore I made my vote count less ( I was thinking about not voting at all for similar reasons as Sommerswerd, but I wanted to put in my opinion though)

I know how you feel. But I shamelessly took a full vote.

 

[YossarianLives]

I think it's completely appropriate for us less-experienced team members to voice an opinion and vote. I also think it's appropriate for the more experienced players (and presumed turnplayers) to still go with what they feel is the right move, especially when opinion is split so evenly.

As far as Bistrita, Vranasm and bcool, they voted Sip (only), Bananas-SIP, and Bananas-PH-SIP, respectively. So even there, Bananas narrowly wins. I think this really shows that both are valid choices with strong benefits that we can take advantage of in different ways. (Edit: adding 2metra, who Caledorn mentioned in the other thread and is also someone whose opinion should be highly regarded, swings the balance back to slightly in favor of SIP, so it really can go either way)

Whichever way we go, I think we need to develop a system to make decisions faster. This was a really big one, but we'll have other big decisions that won't come with a 96-hour turn clock. Whether it be finalizing a method and timeframe for voting, or opening up discussion then turning it over to the experts to make a decision, or something else, we need something!

 

[Aivoturso]

The thing is that Sommer's vote is not here either. I've been scouring through older discussion-threads and last time he said anything it this matter he was pro-SIP.

Sommers is not the only one whose vote is missing. We're missing e.g. votes of Tobiasn and Slaze. What I've counted are the votes in the given time period, which was and still is very limited. I am not going to add missing persons last opinions as single votes for them, since that may not represent their current opinion at all. For example I was pro-SIP until about three days ago.

Anyway, the missing voters is IMO an issue and that is why I will not claim that Bananas is the final decision. However, I very strongly suggest that we will try our best to reach the decision as close to the original timeline as possible (we'd have approximately one hour left in the turn timer if I'm not mistaken). This means that we'll have to pick our capital location right about now.

 

[bcool]

One of the team captains needs to step up?
Sommerswerd seems to be MIA and 2metraninja doesn't want to make a decision?

We clearly need someone to make a decision. Without clear guidance I would say the buck stops with 2metraninja even though he won't be availiable tomorrow.

according to the team officials threads, 2metraninja seems to be the primary turn player as captain.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11620897&postcount=1

edit: sorry the discussion seems to be split into different threads and Sommerswerd has chimed in, but wants the testers to come to a unanimous decision. I'm not sure who the testers are and who isn't. But based on my testing and analysis bananas is the clear winner based on the fact that is gets out settlers and workers faster and doesn't sacrifice commerce at all (compared to SIP). (Its higher food surplus and higher health can make it just as good a commerce capital as SIP)

 

[2metraninja]

I wanted to see if some new arguments/tests to a later date could give me clearer preference on one of the two leading choices.

We clearly need someone to make a decision.

You are right on this. I am taking my responsibility/burden on this strategic decision and will play our turn a bit later settling in place.

 

[RegentMan]

9-6 banana, tied in the "Borda" vote, and going with SIP?

 

[whb]

If you count a theoretical run-off (who preferred sip over banana, who preferred banana over sip) it looks like banana wins 9 to 7.

 

[2metraninja]

9-6 banana, tied in the "Borda" vote, and going with SIP?

To me the problem came because we had tie 93:93 in the vote. Even if we interpret it like 90:93, this is not compelling result and we all recognizing that the vote have no compulsory power, obviously we needed decision to be made. So any choice to me looked like making equal number of players pleased and equal number unpleased. I gave up this choice to be made asking the other captain Sommerswerd and then implemented by the turnplayer. Sommerswerd said he dont want to make this choice and as voices have asked someone (naming me as team captain and turnplayer) to take the burden to make this choice, I announced what is my choice.

Due to RL problems - transport, work, timing, etc, I am still unable to get to Civ-able pc to play our turn. If the team verdict changes decisively till the time I get to a PC to actually play the turn, then I might reconsider

 

[Sommerswerd]

SIP.

I am at work so I can't play the turn so either cavscout or bistrita has to do it.

If its still not done by the time I get home I will take care of it.

 

[Caledorn]

SIP.

I am at work so I can't play the turn so either cavscout or bistrita has to do it.

If its still not done by the time I get home I will take care of it.

I can do it too if needed. All I need to know is what tile to work. I assume the worker should be moved identical to how we moved it before the reload (that is the honourable thing to do). And I assume first queue build is worker?

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

 

[YossarianLives]

Yes, let's please SIP, whoever is able to get to the turn first. Both team captains have spoken in favor of SIP, and Sommers' vote breaks the tie.

 

[Arkipeller]

Yes, let's please SIP, whoever is able to get to the turn first. Both team captains have spoken in favor of SIP, and Sommers' vote breaks the tie.

At last!

If SIP, the flood plains is the only logical option.