Capitulation

[obsolete]

This also burned me. I took a vassel to see what all the hoopla was about. Protected him from Zulu. Then after taking Zulu cities, and trying to gift them to my vassel, it wouldn't give me the option!!!

What a waste and a useless feature.

 

[Mutineer]

The fact that one can not gift cities to vassal bags me too.

The fact that there ex cities revolt, but can not rejoing there homeland bugs. Why revolt then?

But otherwize vassals have there pluses.

 

[obsolete]

Oh yes, they have their pluses like the last game...
Me and Mansu are best buddies. I have super high relations with him. Same religion, etc. Not even one negative point. We have defensive pact. Huyan attacks Mansu, so I have to fight him as well. Few rounds later, mansu becomes a vassel, and in the same turn now my blood-brother is forced to declare war on me...

WTH????

I was forced to join the war because of our pacts, and now I am forced into fighting the one I was forced to protect?

I don't see that as any sort of plus... I see that as a broken game.

 

[cabert]

Oh yes, they have their pluses like the last game...
Me and Mansu are best buddies. I have super high relations with him. Same religion, etc. Not even one negative point. We have defensive pact. Huyan attacks Mansu, so I have to fight him as well. Few rounds later, mansu becomes a vassel, and in the same turn now my blood-brother is forced to declare war on me...

WTH????

I was forced to join the war because of our pacts, and now I am forced into fighting the one I was forced to protect?

I don't see that as any sort of plus... I see that as a broken game.

you should have asked him to be your peacetime vassal .

A vassal can indeed win by space or cultural (or even time AFAIK, although it seems hardly possible). But if you deny him the opportunity to win by space, he just won't. It's pretty easy to check what your vassal(s) research and ask them to change to non space part technologies.
In fact I hate it when my vassals have rocketry, because they use those gunships to pillage everything around.

Another good point for vassals, is they give you +1 happiness.
It doesn't seem much but when you have 3, it's pretty good .

 

[LlamaCat]

obsolete have you checked the list of fixes in the 2.08 patch? reading some of those it seems like your situation would have been remedied. doesn't this fix address your situation:

Can no longer ask someone to make peace with a vassal. Talk to the master directly.

 

[Morgrad]

You do have to be careful about an enemy civ vassalizing (is that a word?) to a powerful civ and causing you to go to war with them - but if they're willing to capitulate, they're also willing to give you basically anything for peace.

If I really want to make nice-nice with the civs I'm not pounding on, I'll often declare peace (with extortion) instead of gaining the vassal as soon as capitulation becomes available. One must weigh the demerit of -1 for all civs vs. the +1 happy for all cities.

Also, I really, really, really like the ability to squash the aformentioned civ like a bug if they become a pain in the butt later. =)

 

[cabert]

You do have to be careful about an enemy civ vassalizing (is that a word?) to a powerful civ and causing you to go to war with them - but if they're willing to capitulate, they're also willing to give you basically anything for peace.

If I really want to make nice-nice with the civs I'm not pounding on, I'll often declare peace (with extortion) instead of gaining the vassal as soon as capitulation becomes available. One must weigh the demerit of -1 for all civs vs. the +1 happy for all cities.

Also, I really, really, really like the ability to squash the aformentioned civ like a bug if they become a pain in the butt later. =)

totally right.
In a diplomatic game, having one vassal is a pain.
Then again having 5 is a win (they vote for you!).

 

[obsolete]

Geeze, I simply can't get the AI to vassel to me unless there is practicaly nothing left. Actually, I had Cyrus down to just ONE city, and he STILL wouldn't vassal to me, despite I had a gigantic waltzing right towards his only city and I had obliterated every other unit on the map.

O_o

 

[cabert]

Geeze, I simply can't get the AI to vassel to me unless there is practicaly nothing left. Actually, I had Cyrus down to just ONE city, and he STILL wouldn't vassal to me, despite I had a gigantic waltzing right towards his only city and I had obliterated every other unit on the map.

O_o

are you playing agressive AIs?

 

[rabidveggie]

Vassals are annoying to say the least. I usually just wipe the buggers off the map since their culture annoys me. Its irksome to control a continent with a nice purple spread all along the landmass and to have a blue or yellow blotch in the middle of the land. Also the computers have a tendency to vassilize each other making my foreign policy of working to no longer need one a nightmare.

 

[obsolete]

Alright, just went through some more vassal BULLSH!T!

I beat the crap out of Peter. I honestly took city after city after city. Yet he REFUSED to be my vassel. Yet, he has NOOOOO problem asking to be Monty's Vassal and poof, I am now overswarmed in the rear door and have to give up.

Which reminds me, Isabella was down to her last city, and Monty was stompping on her, I kept asking again if she could be my vassal so I could save her..... Nooooo she refuses?

I ask again, WTH? It seems this is just another thing this screws the human player over, unless he can find some way to EXPLOIT around it.

There is nothing I really can do about it?

 

[cabert]

^^play better?

I never faced situations like these, there must be some reason.

 

[Soneji]

I have faught an enemy down the less than three remaining cities, from 15+ and still wouldn't capitulate and instead turned elsewhere.

I think this is down to how agressive you have been against them as well..

Anyway obviously more often the AI will get it.

 

[varus]

It's all about their graphs versus yours.

If they only have one little town out on an iceberg, but they have 45 infantry and a stack of panzers, they will not capitulate because their power rating is still very high.

However, I have gained a vassal without taking a single city. It was Brennus, I declared on him and waited for the endless storms of his units, then leveled them with cavalry that were in my borders. After his offensive sluffed off, I sent the cavalry into his land to pillage like crazy. After most of his tile improvements were down, I started attacking cities without taking them. The idea was to destroy his army without destroying him.
He actually came to ME asking to capitulate. After his tile improvements were rebuilt, I had a vassal that was nearly full strength.


He was quite useful in the wars to come.

 

[facistal]

I think the main point everybody who is complaining that they can't get a civ to capitulate is missing is the leader personalities.

Mansa and Gahndi will capitulate just like that. This is what makes them good vassals - They maintain a large portion of their empire minus what ever strategic sites you need (Wonder, Shrine, etc) and maintain their huge research power. You then use them to research for you. Crazy pit pull warmongers like Cyrus or Toku will fight to their last breath and then hate you forever after you vassalize them anyway, so they are almost never worth the trouble.

Also, on the 'Big civ takes your enemy as a vassal and the DoW' problem - I love these issues, because they are so historically accurate. A people can only be pushed so far unto the brink of extinction until they will do anything and everything to remain alive. Some people can be pushed further than others. On the same note a neutral third party can only stand back for so long until the potential gains (A peacetime vassal - better than one you just attacked, who will offer anything) outweigh the potential drawbacks (War with you, presumably a weaker or weakened from war nation).

I love the Vassal feature, I only wish it were more flexible and more wide ranging its options.

 

[obsolete]

Another thing I noticed is the vassal problem is lessened on Fractal vs Two continents maps. It seems to vassal like mad on the seperate continents making perm-warmongering there almost impossible for the human player.

IIRC, Warlords has Fractal on by default, while the vanilla had Two continents.