Castle & Walls - Obsolete - Do I still get defensive bonuses ?

kiwitt

Road to War Modder
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
5,618
Location
Auckland, NZ (GMT+12)
If I have developed the relevant technologies to make these obsolete, do I still get the relevant defensive bonuses, if the attacking civilisation still has not developed them. i.e. am I still protected against pre-gunpowder units, etc.
 
Yes. You just can't build any new ones.



And imo, it's one of the many stupidities of this game. Just because I'm advanced enough to have rifles doesn't mean monty isn't gonna try and attack me with a stack of macemen.
 
Yes. You just can't build any new ones.



And imo, it's one of the many stupidities of this game. Just because I'm advanced enough to have rifles doesn't mean monty isn't gonna try and attack me with a stack of macemen.

It's your own fault for letting Monty live that long.
 
Do I lose the other bonuses - when they are obolete

+1 culture, +25% espionage, +1 Trade Route
+50% defense (except Gunpowder Units)
–25% damage from bombard. (except Gunpowder Units)
 
Yes. You just can't build any new ones.



And imo, it's one of the many stupidities of this game. Just because I'm advanced enough to have rifles doesn't mean monty isn't gonna try and attack me with a stack of macemen.

If Monty is going to attack your rifles with maces do you really need the walls...

When a castle obsoletes you lose the trade route (the main reason for the obsolete since Economics gives your +1 TR) and the espionage. I believe you never lose culture because of obsolescence and I think the bombardment is considered "defensive" so it remains for pre-gunpowder units.
 
If Monty is going to attack your rifles with maces do you really need the walls...

hehe, Monty sometimes attacks with such numbers that, if you've skimped on unit builds, even that kind of tech advantage won't be enough to guarantee your safety.

I once saw him use an insane number of Cavalry and HAs to wipe out Gandhi's Infantry-defended empire.

Not sure if the Indian cities had walls, though... ;)
 
hehe, Monty sometimes attacks with such numbers that, if you've skimped on unit builds, even that kind of tech advantage won't be enough to guarantee your safety.

I once saw him use an insane number of Cavalry and HAs to wipe out Gandhi's Infantry-defended empire.

Not sure if the Indian cities had walls, though... ;)

you saw monty use horse archers to defeat an industrial age empire......
O RLY!?
 
Numbers can beat technological superiority. In the immortal university games i've seen people with masses of muskets and cannons defeat AIs with rifles.
 
you saw monty use horse archers to defeat an industrial age empire......
O RLY!?

I suspect the Cavalry did most of the defeating. But the AI does seem to have a habit of throwing massed HAs at impregnable targets.

Incidentally, this was a Warlords game. Had it been BtS, Gandhi would've whipped out some more defenders and (probably) survived.
 
you saw monty use horse archers to defeat an industrial age empire......
O RLY!?

He also mentioned cavalry...

I've seen a mix of knights/cavalry slam into infantry/SAM infantry and capture multiple cities. I've actually seen Monty do this as my VASSAL (I have a game on this forum where it occurred).

I've done it myself with grenadiers + cannons too. Infantry can only hold out so long if it's a 5 city empire vs a 20 city empire and the latter is managed well for hammers.

Remember, inherently a mounted unit like a knight with 2 promos is pretty strong. It will ignore the rifle's drill, although the rifle gets +25% against it. Odds are, with first strike immunity the knight will damage the rifle significantly. A 2nd knight will actually have the odds on the same damaged rifle. In other words, 8 knights will generally beat something like 3 rifles, especially after collateral damage affects the latter at least somewhat.

Another note: A CR III mace will actually beat an unpromoted rifle defending a city with no culture defense ;). That's pretty scary, but it gives you an idea of what a dangerous, troop-spamming warmonger is capable of if he gets momentum and GGs. I've seen Monty win some early wars, settle the GGs, and start pushing out tons of combat III knights. When you're talking 50+ stack sizes, that type of unit is incredibly dangerous. Of course, I've done similar things myself (just as recently as today :) ), to great effect. A tech lead is great, but so is having things like CR III trebs, combat IV knights, etc. The latter can ALSO cut through medieval troops with minimal losses and will generally destroy opposition at tech parity with ease. A promotion lead is almost as powerful as a tech lead, but usually easier to achieve!

So when those knights become cavalry, and you see combat III or pinch promos on those cavalry, just how far behind infantry do you think they are in effective strength? They're behind, but not by enough that 1 infantry can beat 2 cavalry.
 
Infantry can only hold out so long if it's a 5 city empire vs a 20 city empire and the latter is managed well for hammers.

Indeed. Combine that with Monty's love of vast armies, plus Gandhi's tendency to leave his cities poorly defended, and the result isn't so surprising.

Aside from the fact that a more advanced foe can be defeated by sheer numbers, the two main lessons from that war are:

1) Don't play like Gandhi when you've got Monty nextdoor.

2) Don't set Monty on Gandhi and expect the latter to put up a decent fight, even if he has a big tech lead.
 
Back
Top Bottom