'Cause I'm the Taxman

Suicide those 3 cats in Tolosa and bum rush Stalin's stack
:goodjob:
switch back to Slavery in 3 turns ? or after c below gets a pop
I think I'd wait for the border pop. It's so much easier than monument... Can't look at the save right now, what is it? 2t to found city and 3t for borders?
What about Pericles' remaining cities? Some culture pressure and as far as I can see the danger of getting a city mandate vote for Athens. Though he doesn't have Buddhism any more and may switch, if he does he's not much of an issue I guess.
Can we do anything about his cities? Transporting troops right now seems like a chore. He should convert to Judaism, if he doesn't have Buddhism anymore.
What about Sparta, should it finish that Market for a nice 6½gpt or switch to Jumbos while there's the danger of roaming Knights around?
I'd rather be building troops atm, but what do I know? Never would have thought to start this war in the first place. :lol:
^bbp: you don't get WE hate from trades that are buffered with gold (= no lopsidedness)
I so couldn't follow you and bestsss earlier. :mischief:
 
report!

We started the round with a nice event, giving a second decent tile to that city...

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0051.jpg


In 1030 ad, the Great Library is finally bifl :lol: Hagia Sophia done too...

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0052.jpg


One turn later, we vote "no" to OBs...

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0053.jpg


Meanwhile we are gathering troops for the russian war, spamming cats and maces. Some jumbo sent in as well (two pop whips except in iron city which was whipped to death :goodjob:).

The resolution fails...

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0054.jpg


turn 165, we trade for enginering as Sury gets it...

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0056-1.jpg


t166: Athen's GP makes the Temple of Salomon (Confu less spread). Athen reconfigured for max growth (more :whipped:).

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0057-1.jpg


t167: Our soldiers are fed up of waiting for a russian dow!

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0059-1.jpg


Under the pressure of our boys, I declare war :blush:

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0061-1.jpg


Khmers get paper... so do the celts :king:

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0062-1.jpg


t169: switching to caste finally, no threats spotted, and settler whipped (spotted a nice three sea food site...).

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0063-1.jpg


t170: We got a nice event with Sury!

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0064-1.jpg


t171: the RNG couldn't be so nice...

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0065-1.jpg


While the russian front is still tricky (we thrown cats for collaterage damages, gaining some accuracy promos, and killed some troops on defense), greek homeland is now ours!

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0066-1.jpg


We can now focus on the north... as I put on the save, I think we should attack this turn as most of his units are injured. Once the stack is gone and we've got some more siege, we can march on his cities.

techs:

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0067-1.jpg


resources and active deals:

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0068-1.jpg


diplo(or lack of):

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0069-1.jpg


Notes:
Market in Sparta is to leverage the new shrine, it can build troops afterward, moreover russian knights should suicide in Thebes....
Trireme in Athen is to kill the greek galley. Our galley in the area should go toward the sugar island to take the worker... fighting the galley with it is very risky. Though a caravel is best if we trade for optics now :). If we need a wb, Bibracte can build one in one turn (maybe Athen or Corinth are best though).
to micro unit 2 pop whips (if you don't want to do the math :lol:): one pop in Bibracte is 52 hammers, one pop in a forge city is 37 hammers (though I don't recommend whipping Bibracte while it can grow).
I wouldn't suicide acuracy cats (they go lucky once already :D), but noobies... :mischief:

Save in post 373

Raskolnikov
 
@Silu: the plan looks good... though as I said in the last post, I wouldn't suicide accuracy cats.
Uper limit for whip anger: I don't look like this... Whip if you think it will help conquest, grow max speed if not :) I did quite a lot of build up already, so I think there is no need to kill all the survivors of my set :lol:
Market in Sparta: see report too :p

I agree we should grow another GP though I am not sure which one is best (priest or merchant)...
 
With the bajillion ShoXbows he has, I wouldn't attack his stack without suiciding at least a couple (though TBH I just assumed they were Barrage2 when looking at the save :D ). Our position isn't that strong with just 3 Jumbos and 3 Cats. OTOH we must attack now unless we want to eat 7 CR2 Cats.

I'd think the Tao shrine is a no-brainer over a GM, though that assumes we get to control it :) I know the Market is for the shrine, but IMO it's not quite as urgent as getting the advance rolling with some more Elepult. A judgement call, I guess my cowardly peacenik side is showing up again.
 
looking at the stacks and the fact you cant whip castle, perhaps it's better to stay on defense,
upgrade the archers to longbows, you will lose 2-3 troops w/ so much stuff to eat the collateral damage.
Heal one turn (you have m3) and advance. it's a hill city w/ GII longbows. and G2 swords, you will do much better on defense w/o the suicide pults.
 
^ Yeah I considered it for a while but... 7 Cats is still pretty heavy and the only thing we'd have against those mass Xbows and Knights would be just a few LBs and Jumbos, seriously damaged from collateral. I think attacking is the lower risk and saves the upgrade costs. Though now you got me second guessing again, damn you ;)
 
Silu, make a world builder test w/ similar (or the same, will be difficult since the stack of stalin is damaged which favors him less on attacking than defending, you'd have way more bonuses defending) stacks. Even the swords w/ G2 gets favoring odds vs xbow on a hill. G2+hill+fortify = 100% bonus. LBs gets extra 50%, although the upgraded won't have 25% fortify bonus I think.
 
I want to attack the stack. I wouldn't worry about suiciding accuracy cats -- we have access to trebs now to do the bombarding for us so it's not a big loss. I'd whip some of those next.

Whip anger is not a problem, we'll be in HR for a long time to come.
 
Your plan looks good Silu so feel free to play tonight before you leave as long as you attack the stack that is :mischief:.

Don't have the save open, but do we really want more prophets? How big would the Tao shrine be? It's not efficient to make a shrine and convert cities manually -- and in this case we also have our civic/main religion already.
 
I'm playing currently... For your :mischief: condition, well, you'll see... >_> On a related note, I could share a piece kiosk zenism: "Always expect the worst, and you will be happily surprised." !

Tao is just 2 cities but it's the same city as the Hindu shrine. That screams WALL STREET to me (Hindu is much bigger than Buddha) which maybe makes manual spreading worth it. Maybe not. Anyway no grinding at all right now with the huge war effort and all that will probably decide the game.
 
1110AD-1200AD: Crappy luck and cracky whips

T171:

Trade Paper+200g for Optics from Joao

Change Bibracte to Caravel

Attack Stalin, starting by suiciding all the 3 Cats... and getting horrible, horrible RNG rolls for the few critical attacks. I don't like that all the Gallics are upgraded to G2, maybe it was in order as a precaution if Stalin had decided to attack, but it's kinda hurting right now. They're useless for attacking when the big boys couldn't even scratch the only Shoxbow left. Duh. Maybe I'll get yelled at, but I don't see a choice but to upgrade some LBs (indeed losing the fortification bonus) and end turn. There's no one to heal so I move the M3 to a safe distance.

taxman22png.jpg


Not that much to micro now that we're not going to be in Slavery for 5 turns (until the SW crab city pops borders).

T172:

And... Stalin attacks with a single Knight. I thought he'd go all in for sure. If he stalls for another turn the Jumbos are healed and can snipe something again.

Pericles breaks free from Stalin and converts to Judaism. He'd capitulate to us, obviously I don't take up the offer. It'll take forever and a day to dislodge him from that island of his, so I take peace for his whopping treasury of 20g to keep our precious Clam safe. However, I was stupid enough to miss that the peace blops the Bagacum WB to the wrong side, now taking 17 turns to go around. Also trapping the Worker in Bagacum but that's slightly less important. Anyhoo, this means lights on in Portugal...

taxman24png.jpg


I move the M3 back to Tolosa... I'll eat my socks if he defends and dies, lost fortification bonus and all...

Sury seems to also be the WE of SB in addition to Joao. He also spent all his juicy 230 cash from last turn, so I broker Optics to KK for Alpha + 100g. Either Sury is in a foul mood or he's researching Optics currently

Pericles' Clam-eating Galley seems to have doubts, as it didn't move at all. That's weird, never seen behavior like that before.

Sparta is 67 hammers from Market so I swap to Treb to set up a whip. This won't delay the Market but should distribute some hammers better.

On a side note, am I the only one profoundly confused by these city names scattered around the archipelago? Durnovaria, Durocortorum, Camulodonum, Verlamion... I put up notes like "remove durocortorum artist" and proceed to spend 2 minutes searching for the bugger.

T173:

The big showdown... Goes 10-5 in our favor, losing 2 Gallics, 2 LBs and a Jumbo. Could be worse I guess. And no amount of funky dice can save the survivors of his now puny stack. Still, I miss an opportunity to get a freewin->level3 Catapult. (Why do I keep mentioning these mistakes? Not like you guys would notice this 7 turns later :lol: ) We also get some G3 Gallics, can't upgrade though due to lack of metal.

Theology costs Optics + 60g from Sury. I'm still not sure if he's actually researching it so I decide against taking the trade, trying to save enough cash to get Guilds with Optics + gold. Theo could actually be useful since we'd stay at Friendly even without OR (as far as I can tell) currently thanks to the event last round.

I settle Nemetocenna (sup with these names) in the icy crab waters. There's a fog tile on that island but only one and there has been an unit in a 2tile radius for the last turns. AFAIK barbs don't stand still just for kicks. Also those borders mean the deadline of Caste System.

taxman25png.jpg


Also got a GG, I guess Tolosa is still the long term settling-place of choice, despite Bibracte having a monster production at the moment.

T174:

Ahh, the awaited news from the AP. Holy war on Joao. Well, certainly not worth defying but I don't see this passing benefiting us at all. Optimal situation would be Sury and Joao deadlocking in a duel, holy war might make him cave in soonish and capitulate and that would be horrible. Voted no.

Stalin gets a GA from Taj, which kinda sucks. Though it means he has been using tons of production for non-military, which was a good thing :) Probably the reason Yaroslavl looks like this currently:

taxman26png.jpg


Sury definitely not researching Optics, we should get Guilds soon with Optics + gold if KK doesn't make some weird trade.

T175:

Joao founds Islam, holy war vote fails (only Sury votes yes).

Siege of Yaroslavl begins, puny garrison and still no walls.

Settled GG in Tolosa.

T176:

Stalin completes Sistine in Moscow, with a GE he popped 2 turns ago. Oh Josif, you shouldn't have... Works as a christmas present I guess.

Finally Nemetocenna pops borders, it's Slavery time! W-w-whipping spree! Mo-mo-mo-monster whip...whip...whip... (yeah, I finally noticed that my "optimization" in Sparta totally forgot OR and the Forge :mischief: )

Also, Guilds finally opens itself to us. +-0 hammers for Workshops this turn :)

taxman27png.jpg


Athens changed to Grocer, going to whip next turn. Appropriately it would become unhealthy next turn as well.

T177:

Yaroslavl falls at the price of 5 Catapults. I manage to lose a 98.6% mop-up fight but G3 saves the unit :)

taxman28png.jpg


I make a Theo trade to SB. As you can see he was already well into researching it himself.

taxman29png.jpg


T178:

Saving cash for Banking, the big one. Gunpowder is also available but not needed really; Pinch would be useful but not essential since Stalin really sucks at fighting this war.

Whips all around and the army moves to heal.

I'm hard-pressed to find anything to build in Bibracte as its production is simply monstrous. Opting for Castle after Grocer, even that should be about 9gpt.

T179:

Copper finally hooked up. All that gives us is Maces though. I should probably have concentrated on the Iron instead even though it's in a very precarious position. In any case it doesn't matter much since Jumbos are the kings of the battlefield here.

Cracked the whip more these last turns than in a whole average game of mine.

---


So, the war is entering its mop-up phase (was it ever anything else?). Thanks to Stalin building wonders instead of units in the few cities of his that have production. 2 Caravels are heading in opposite directions in hope of circumnavigation and juicy Astro-huts. I put Bibracte on a Settler, not sure if we want more of those right now. I guess there's the crappy crabby city and the crappier-than-ever 2lake city on the bigger island.

I didn't hook up the Iron, because it would have required Jumbo effort that wasn't available 5 turns ago. The next guy probably should do that to open Xbow/Pike just in case, even though Gunpowder is around the corner. Definitely should go for Banking next though.

taxman210png.jpg


The stack is ready to depart towards St. Pete (the Gallics from Tolosa can catch up if you'd like with G2). A little short on siege (4 treb 3 cat ready to go) but should suffice.

taxman211png.jpg


I didn't micro this very last turn (fresh from enter) so keep that in mind if there seems to be wonky citizen placement :)

EDIT: Might also want to upgrade those G3s to Maces this turn and catch up with G2 while the stack mobilizes. Last location with a trade link before Moscow probably.
 

Attachments

@Silu, I only had time for a quick look, and everything seems great. :goodjob:

@Rusten, am I up? I could have a careful look tmr night and post my thoughts then.
 
Yes, you're up.

Haven't had time to look at the report or save yet, but I see that we've taken a Russian city so I assume all is well. ;)
 
so stalin went for Nationalism line, I bet you will be soon to meet his new discovery, knights w/ guns :)
btw why didn't you support war w/ Joao, if Sury comes to ask, you will have to join, w/ holy Stalin would have war w/ Joao and you in the same time.
 
Kurasääret for Stalin is OK, Jumbos handle them well enough. Stalin's MFG kinda sucks and his standing army is in pieces so not like he can mount a big offensive with them.

Joao is badly on the ropes already (facing CR3 Trebs and CR3 Maces in hunker-down mode) so if SB would attack him as well due to holy war he would break very fast. Not like Stalin DoWing on Joao would help us in any meaningful way.
 
The save looks really good. :)

I'd send the stack towards St. Pete next turn. Novgorod after that, then Moscow? I'd keep building units in mainland cities for now. I think we primarily need siege for the moment. Catch up with some straggling units in Novgorod maybe. Skip the settler? At this point island cities are a bit of a chore to set up, and we have some capturing to do. If we get Banking soon, I'd wanna push out some banks in main cities. I'd switch to infra when I can estimate we have enough troops to plow through Stalin's core (we still need some harbors, grocers and stuff, too).

The island cities all look good. Continue infrastructure builds, net the remaining seafood.

What's the deal with the 3 knights next to Thebes? They're not moving?

Banking next, then... We don't want Aesthetics/Lit? Because of WFYABTTA? We could use NE, especially if we don't wanna run Pacifism for Sury's sake. On that note, I'm not crazy about grinding another priest for the Hindu shrine in Athens, since it's an awesome city (it would take 25t with all 5 slots filled, but it wouldn't have hammers for a bank). Vienne only has 3 slots, so might take a while, and I'd get on it (it's not producing that much anyway).

I'm guessing everyone's busy today and tmr. I'll post more of an actual plan after some feedback.
 
Yes, the 3 Knights are one of those mindless idling stacks the AI sometimes puts to sit on some random tile. They didn't move during my whole turnset.

Screw WFYABTA IMO, I just didn't take Aesth because I didn't consider it urgent, or at least as urgent as the other trades I made (Theo I took because it gave a better value for the trade and he could have gotten Guilds any turn), plus I didn't have any leftover brokering options for them. IMO deffo Banking and Gunpowder before those.

Moscow before Novgorod IMO, as Moscow is half of his MFG at least. Shuold be doable if siege is suicided sparingly for St. Pete. Should also move out this turn IMO as the G2/3s can move/upgrade and catch up the next turn.

Slow next GP is just fine IMO since we don't really have much use for them. Settled GM in Athens/St.Pete is best I guess. Bibracte can get the next one pretty easily btw.

Also, vewy mewwy cwisthmas to all :)
 
Bump... Looks like everyone is OOP for a few days...

@Silu, Moscow first is ok with me. It's the better move. I felt that taking Novgorod first and re-assembling the army would give time for more production in case Moscow is difficult to take at first.

I'd aim to get Banking first, and also take GP whenever possible. That should cover my set tech-wise. btw, I'd take whatever cash Pericles has when he's 1-2t from CS. Ok?

On second thought, I'm against a Tao shrine, so I wouldn't really wanna push the GP anyway.
 
Yeah, by all means take Novgorod before Moscow if it has a puny garrison and Moscow has 10+ G2C1 Muskets in it or something. :) But if possible it should be taken after IMO and if he continues to be the idiot he has been so far (last 6 units to reinforce Yaroslavl were all Knights) it should be.

BTW, how is building missionaries for shrines so inefficient? It takes 20 turns for a missionary to outdo building Wealth, slightly more when counting failed spreads and we're running out of sensible builds soon in many cities due to the whipping spree. IMO building at least the next shrine (Tao) is the best use for a GP we have; with no science modifiers GM trade missions suck so the next best option is settled GMs. We have to take into accoun that this variant nerfs many aspects of the overall usefulness of GPs a lot so stuff like shrines becomes better in comparison. In any case it's not a priority by any means so no sacrifices whatsoever should be done in order to get GPs at this point :)

Tech plan sounds pretty good, hard to mess that up ATM as it feels we're railroaded into making the right decisions :) Obviously all brokering options should be checked after each trade etc for backfill and gold.
 
Back
Top Bottom