'Cause I'm the Taxman

[Silu]

More comments now...

Random comments first:

• ^ Never regretted going to war, it's been positive for us in every turn so far as far as I can see. Losing the Iron has been the only hitch and even that's non-consequential.
  
• The war against Joao is very good, as it gives us diplo for guaranteed Friendly with Sury even through a couple of bumps in the wrong direction.
  
• When did we last beg from Sury? We still have a lot of buffer from him as I recall, we could try asking for a couple hundred of our $$$ back. Maybe 300-500.
  
• Hooray for circumnavigation also, seems it will pop next turn.
  
• Funny how Joao is getting Lib the next turn. Won't do him much good in his war unless he picks Gunpowder though.
  
• Pericles getting Lit in 2 turns, might as well sell it for his mighty treasury of 30g.
  
• For some of the island cities (at least Isca) Courthouses would be slightly more hammer efficient income than Market/Grocery at the moment.
  
• As noted siege is in high demand so would change some 0hammer WE builds to Trebs
  

As for the biggest discussion-need ATM, tech and its applications. How are we planning to win this? Space is obviously out of the question, and in diplo we can't trust. This leaves military and culture.

Now, I wouldn't normally even consider culture this late but it would actually be very easy with our now 6(!) religions IF 1) we get Sistine from Moscow (this is the easy one) 2) we get Sushi. Now that's harder than usual with no tech priority possibility but not impossible. Grinding a Merchant would be quite effortless and Medicine is not that long a shot to get before our friends get a Merchant as well. Bibracte + Vienne + Athens would be a blitz to get operating with rushbuy help and being SPI for temple easiness in the provinces. Getting Sushi here is gamebreaking in any case so preparing for this might not necessarily be that much of a hindrance. Assured strong Friendly neighbor makes going culture quite safe.

Military might is the other way obviously. This is also harder than usual since we can't get a tech drop on anyone pretty much. With Inf+Arty+Antitank(+SAM) it's possible though to get through anything less than MA&MArty. This is the "no-brainer" way and possibly easier. Still, it also depends on the tech paths somewhat.

What do you guys think? I have a serious case of Fancy Play Syndrome (FSP) so the culture plan is beckoning though I have to admit the date is quite late for starting one. Still 1000 cpt in 3 cities is very possible here and a quick way to win from that point.

SO, finally the current tech path. If we think about culture then obviously Drama+Music. Otherwise, Philo to open Nationalism (and Democracy in the far future). Our empire is just getting larger and Nat would already be -30 maintenance (though -50 income as well right now ). Our target late civics look to be something like US/Nat/Slavery/SP/whatever so that's a step in that direction at least. Education is mighty expensive and very useless except for opening Economics which isn't that much of a priority either.



Oh almost forgot, the next guy could also send a detachment to Thebes to loudly drink refreshing drinks on the city wall in a spot that's clearly visible from the eastern hills. Those 3 Knights must be parched sitting in that desert mine by now.

EDIT: Edited for clarity. Had another thing to add as well but I forgot it while listifying my musings...

 

[babybluepants]

Hooray for circumnavigation also, seems it will pop next turn.

Yeah, we're probably a turn from circumnavigation now, so make sure to complete that. I wonder if we should sell our map to some bidders now. Sitting Bull's had Optics the longest and he's been sending out caravels I think, so maybe a swap with him first nets more of a return from others.

Funny how Joao is getting Lib the next turn. Won't do him much good in his war unless he picks Gunpowder though.

He teched Econ just before... Not sure if that says anything about his path, though.

As noted siege is in high demand so would change some 0hammer WE builds to Trebs

I think we should run some trebs out of Sparta (asap) and Tolosa (after WE). Maybe even one out of Athens (it can delay NE 2t).

Oh almost forgot, the next guy could also send a detachment to Thebes to loudly drink refreshing drinks on the city wall in a spot that's clearly visible from the eastern hills. Those 3 Knights must be parched sitting in that desert mine by now.

Thebes should switch back to catapult and complete that. It can whip the WE a.s.a. size 4. There's a WE sitting there, and maybe send one more so we can get rid of those 3 knights.

Other stuff:
I'd switch to OR right now. I think it's better overall, as we have lots of buildings lined up still, and honestly, promos don't matter as much as numbers here, I think.

Workers: a bit of a mess. I was overly focussed on other things during my set, and we don't really have that much improvement left to do overall. I started chopping one of the forests next to Bibracte and just landed a couple more workers there, so maybe chop the other one, too.

Tolosa's been stagnating because I handed tiles over to Yaroslavl'... Not sure what to do there.

Can't remember anything else.

VC: I've liked culture here since joining the team. It's tricky, though, since no guarantee on Sushi... I'll comment more on this and current tech later, when I have some time.

 

[Silu]

Thebes should switch back to catapult and complete that. It can whip the WE a.s.a. size 4. There's a WE sitting there, and maybe send one more so we can get rid of those 3 knights.

Haha, I didn't actually mean we'd need to send any units there, just some civilians with 7-UP bottles. i.e. I couldn't resist making limping jokes again

Other stuff:
I'd switch to OR right now. I think it's better overall, as we have lots of buildings lined up still, and honestly, promos don't matter as much as numbers here, I think.

As long as we're making more units than buildings deffo stay at Theo. The second promo for siege helps very, very much.

 

[Emperor Peter]

Got it, will play tomorrow or later if discussion is still going

Here's the plan so far:

War:
- Hold St. Petersburg
- Kill the 3 musketeers, i mean knights
- Take Novgorod, then Moscow, we need more trebs to do this so I'll build a few of those

Get circumnavigation, perhaps find 2-3 nice spots in the new world to get resources we lack?

If our military builds are complete, switch to OR

Beg something from sury, we can get him to stop trading with Stalin for 520g, is this worthwhile?

I usually don't, but I'd go for culture in this situation, late game military is annoying because of the large stacks to maneuver

NE in Vienne (turn that cottage into farm when we can)

 

[babybluepants]

I'd go Moscow first. Given the lack of siege, you won't get to more than one city in your set, I think.

Get circumnavigation, perhaps find 2-3 nice spots in the new world to get resources we lack?

We'll need Astro for that...

NE in Vienne (turn that cottage into farm when we can)

We already agreed on Athens.
If we did go culture, I'd argue for Vienne again, since there's no gene pollution.

I'm thinking we should discuss longer term plans here, before proceeding. That is, unless all this culture talk results in nothing more than a spanking from Rusten... In either case, tech goals are far from clear.

 

[Emperor Peter]

I missed that we agreed on Athens, will put it there then.

Moscow is the real prize and it's tempting to go there right away but it's deep in enemy territory. Novgorod is closer, so it's easier. Should reduce losses and give better chance of success. It's hard for me to rate how strong Stalin still is.

 

[Silu]

^ No need to worry about the knights, they're idling with no harm at all. Circumnavigation is already gotten this turn but obviously keep on exploring and no, it's NOT worth 520g for sury to stop trading with stalin And NE in Athens, otherwise plan is ok I guess.

 

[Rusten]

Culture....

Not so sure I want it from a variant point of view either. It severely reduces (or eliminates) use of the tax slider.

 

[bestsss]

huh, how will you do culture w/ 100% tax slider (which is the premise of the game).
culture spec. alone will not be enough.
Space w/ internet and enough spy buildings (land) is totally possible.

 

[Silu]

huh, how will you do culture w/ 100% tax slider (which is the premise of the game).
culture spec. alone will not be enough.
Space w/ internet and enough spy buildings (land) is totally possible.

6x3 cathedrals and 15+ resource sushi with sistine artists would be way enough. Still I agree it somewhat is against the spirit of the variant.

About space, well everything is possible but if you go that way then military win would be a lot easier.

So I guess the next goal (after Stalin) is to try to gain strategic and good spots in the new world? While trying to guide the tech towards Astro and our favored civics.

 

[babybluepants]

I like culture because of the slider. It's a funny situation, where we have (or will have) 6 religions with SPI, Sistine, massive Sushi, but we don't have the slider, which would normally be the primary source of base cpt. Before this game started, I never would've guessed it'd be possible, given the variant... Also, it would be complex, but a lot less involved and intense in some ways - military or space from here will be a long slugfest... But, I guess that's what we should do. Culture heavily depends on getting Sushi, which isn't guaranteed, so not exactly safe.

Philosophy next seems like the way to go. Do we get some sort of a trade discount for having Drama first? How does that work?

Pre-building some settlers for the NW would be good. We could start on that soon, especially as the older island cities are done the most essential infrastructure.

 

[bestsss]

Philosophy next seems like the way to go. Do we get some sort of a trade discount for having Drama first? How does that work?

No, there is no discount. The tech cost depends ONLY on the beaker count (research cost for the team) and the rest of civilization know it.
No wonders or anything else determines it: the values of aesthetics is exactly the same if you complete all the wonders and if you complete none.

 

[Emperor Peter]

Played 10 turns

IT the Russians counterattack Peterburg, we hold them off
We got +1 movement for our ships

T1: Stack needs healing in St. Peter
Start building NE in Athens, GT might help here, we have unhappiness due to Greek culture unless we want Wall street here ofc

T2: Move out towards Novgorod

Stumble upon a Carrack with 2.2 health left, I decide to attack and lose our Caravel

T4: After some bombardment, we get good odds and take Novgorod

however, Russian Cuirassiers counterattacked Yaroslavl' on the IT and killed 3 out of 4 defenders there, so I have to take cease fire

Some reinforcements moving to Novgorod activated the 3 knights, this cost us a treb but the knights are gone

T5: Stack heals in Novgorod, reorganize the defense of Yaro

T6: Our tax collecting system must be the best in the world, we are the richest nation

End cease fire, our stack heads to Moscow

I attack a barb galley with our last caravel at 90% odds and lose, I built some caravels later in the set to replace the loss

We get a G Prophet in Bibracte, settle / confucian shrine / GA?
He is currently sitting 5 tiles from Thebes(shrine) and Athens (settle), remember to do one of these before advancing turn

AP election , I voted for us, also our spy is on automove towards the hut

T8: Tornadoes wrecked our Workshop near Bagacum
Russian cuirassiers counterattack and kill a treb and 2 units protecting it

T9: Lose some more units heading to Moscow to the Russian cavalry, it's getting annoying, but I get back at them by killing 2 outside Yaro with WE without losses
The siege of Moscow starts, but bombardment is slow

T10: S.Bull completes Versailles and S. Minnaret
NE is done in athens, workers are converted the mines there to windmills

Save attached

 

[ungy]

Took a quick look--I think we're way short on units. We're not even building very many--since we don't have quality we need quantity. This war is pretty much the hump for us this game, so no point in all that infra now.
With the captain up I'm sure we'll build a few more units

As for VC, we can likely win a diplo by colonizing the new world then letting go a vassal. Alternatively we should be able to drown sury in units in a modern war if we can stay halfway caught up in tech.

 

[ungy]

Nice going BBP, does anyone still regret going to war?

I always learn from these games--I confess I'd have definately taken the peace.

 

[Silu]

Astro is available for 2570g, guess we should take that and prepare some expeditions to claim the best visible spots in the new world. Also multiple maps available showing something new (10g and 15g, didn't check what as that'd be cheating I guess ). For post-Astro tech, IMO Philo->Nat->PP->Demo or SciMet. Nat would help with our tiny temporary happy issues here as well (though Notre Dame is ours in a few turns ).

St. Pete and Yaroslavl are running spies, should remove those.

Should sell Spices to SB and OB with KK.

Should whip something useful in Novgorod and next turn in St. Pete after switching to it, Granaries spring to mind.

Athens doesn't need windmills at least pre-RP IMO, running those in lieu of or specs feels suboptimal. Also the homeland unhappiness is inconsequential, methinks we will be wiping Pericless off the face of the earth right after Stalin so WS NE Merchant GP grind sounds enticing there. SB is already cautious due to starting to hate Sury so the DoW won't cost us any attitudes.

I agree a lot of mainland cities should be making military instead of stuff like Caravels (these don't even upgrade to Galleons) and CHs. The war will be a lot more costly if it drags on with our tech disadvantage.

 

[Silu]

Seems Moses is just chilling around, if we don't want to spread Tao (currently 2cities) or Confu (currently 4-5) then a settle in Athens seems a no-brainer and delaying it futile. Unless we want to GA it, though that feels unnecessary.

EDIT: About buying Astro, if we're not in a rush to colonize we could postpone it just a bit since taking it means -1 happy. Not such a big deal though.

 

[ungy]

EDIT: About buying Astro, if we're not in a rush to colonize we could postpone it just a bit since taking it means -1 happy. Not such a big deal though.

I'd delay it a bit--at least give us a chance to pop it from a hut.
Moscow has Notre Dame to help the unhappy, but also Colosseus.

 

[babybluepants]

Yeah, definitely no caravels. We're still tragically short on siege.

What's the point of saving up 5k? Let's just get something. If not Astro, then at least Philo and Music.

I guess we can delay Astro a bit for happy, but I don't think that's too important here. Most of our unhappy is from war. We could just take peace with Joao at this point, we've put in our face time and Sury's happy. Plus, there's Notre Dame, as Silu pointed out.

I think we should begin working on colonization. Didn't look at the save too carefully - are we building any settlers? After Moscow is ours Stalin is basically a goner. There's not much else to do from there, except colonize IMO. We have solid diplo with our only neighbor, SB is inconsequential, Joao is too faraway and awkward to go after at this point. All the AIs have Astro now, so it's only a matter of time before they colonize. Also, this will most likely slow down their collective tech pace for the next period.

 

[Rusten]

Weeeeeeeee! Up at last -- feels like it's been a while.

I've got it (but haven't looked). Will post/plan either later tonight or tomorrow.