Cause of BTS All-forest One-resource Starts

[Bhruic]

I think this is a good example of where the valuation should be changed. Personally I think resource values should be divided by 1.5^(number of era away of the resource's use). Maybe not 1.5, but something like that.

Most of the time it doesn't matter. For all but starting cities, resources that a Civ doesn't have the tech for won't impact the city weighting.

I should have said that better - I'm not complaining about the majority of cases, which I agree are fine. But all the times where my starting location has been really, really atrocious are due to it not realizing the drawbacks of peninsulas.

I guess we are having different experiences. My worst starting locations have always been the "paradise in the tundra" starts. Peninsulas don't tend to be great, but they almost always have a lot of water resources that make them more valuable.

Bh

 

[King of Town]

I only have one starting location that bother me and those are all forests. The tundra ones are even okay, because it usually means there will be silver, marble or iron nearby. The forest ones are good for nature preserves, so maybe that is what those starts are planned for? Probably that's not a factor, but looking on the brightside and supposing the best intent.

 

[Munch]

I only have one starting location that bother me and those are all forests. The tundra ones are even okay, because it usually means there will be silver, marble or iron nearby. The forest ones are good for nature preserves, so maybe that is what those starts are planned for? Probably that's not a factor, but looking on the brightside and supposing the best intent.

My current game was a forest start, and I did end up using it as the National Epic and National Park city - with 7 or 8 forests. I don't really mind the forest starts per se, but it's good to know exactly why they are occuring. It's all part of the challenge in my book.

EDIT: Having said that, I've never played on from an extreme tundra start; knowing that your capital is going to be a long way through cold terrain from your next (good) city is too much of a blow. Annoyingly this seems to happen more often on cold climate or ice-age maps, for obvious reasons. A shame because I wouldn't mind playing those kind of maps otherwise.

 

[sooooo]

This algorithm is also probably the reason for the all the uber-seafood starts in BTS. The game cannot forest the coastal tiles so they are free to be improved by the give-resources thingy.

 

[Antilogic]

I was surprised the first few times when nearly every tile I could see was forest...I thought it was a fluke. Then, I started looking in the Worldbuilder after making worlds, just to see what everybody else's starting position looked like, and I've found that, in one game, every AI capital was surrounded by forests. It wasn't an Arboria map, but it sure felt like it.

For me, an all-forest start tells me that Bronze Working is the first technology I'll research. They are playable, if a little dull and rote because you always have to get workers out and chop the suckers down to make way for farms or cottages.

 

[BumpNsubz]

I just started a game and I too quickly searched the posts as to why I've been given an all forest start with a river and 1 resource, cow. The Blue Circle isn't even in the tile my settler starts in. Is there a reason for this (the blue circle)? Am I SUPPOSED to move my settler to this "optimal" blue circle and waste 2 turns, or settle where it started me? Yes I know it's my choice, but I haven't seen anyone address the lack of the blue circle start either...

 

[Thedrin]

The blue circle is placed using a code that has only limited information, e.g. it doesn't take account of resources which have not yet been revealed. Your initial settler is placed using a code that knows everything.

 

[BumpNsubz]

The blue circle is placed using a code that has only limited information, e.g. it doesn't take account of resources which have not yet been revealed. Your initial settler is placed using a code that knows everything.

This is EXACTLY the answer I have been looking for. I've been so frustrated not knowing how to read the code to find that out myself. A million thanks!

 

[ajil]

They need to fix the forest thing. All too often the game starts up and I have almost all of my tiles covered with forest, and usually one resource. Or the also annoying 3 or more seafood bonus start.

 

[Mesousa]

8) Add Extras: OK, this is the important part. This tries to up your city value until you have at least 80% of the best city value. It does this in three steps, and stops when/if it reaches 80% value, or when it runs out of stuff to do:
a. Add a forest to every plot that can have one.
b. Add certain kinds of resources until you have four or more, with seafood counting as 2/3 of a resource.
c. Add hills until you have three hills.

Why does seafood only count as 2/3 of a normal (land) resource here? Just because they don't get extra food from irrigation and biology?

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

I agree with comments that your start is not that bad at all. In fact, plentiful fresh water for farms and cottages, even workshops. The worse kind of starts are paradise in the sub-arctics, seperated by vast quantities of ice,... on a landmass connected by IMPASSABLE PEAK TILES. Good luck starting a civilization on Greenland. I don't recall that place even having enough timber to build ships... oh wait, do you even have enough wood for spears to hunt polar bears?

 

[Thedrin]

Mesousa:
Why does seafood only count as 2/3 of a normal (land) resource here? Just because they don't get extra food from irrigation and biology?

I assume it's because each workboat can only be used once while a worker can be used indefinetly. At least that's the reason I hate starts where I'm solely reliant on seafood for growth.

 

[alex sword]

I did not hate. After you build them you'll have a great FE capital which could whip all the infrastructure and future GP.

 

[sydhe]

I don't mind the all-forest starts unless most of the underlying terrain is plains, which puts you really short on food. I like the seafood resource ones. I've never understood the aversion to coastal cities.

 

[gettingfat]

All forests + 1 food source is OK. The problem is when most of the forested tiles are plains. The city basically never grows even you chopped and farmed. In this case I'd rather move my settler away from the starting spot and look for greener pasture. I actually think more value should be given to grasslands over plains.

I also have a question. I've read posts mentioning that you have a higher chance getting resources that match your starting techs and UU. Is it true?

PS. Since playing BtS I seldom have floodplain starts. I only saw that twice. Really miss them.

 

[Hammurbabble]

I get floodplain starts all the time in BtS. Not sure what's wrong with some people.

Personally, my preferred start is to have two or three floodplain squares, one or two food resources, and unless I get real lucky with a gold mine or marble patch, everything else covered with trees. With several of those forest squares also hills. I like to leave some forests in my FC for health and production, and I also like to be able to chop out that first settler and maybe a wonder, so I like to have more forests than I'm going to want to keep.