Causes of the Collapse of the Soviet Union

Cheezy while you are probably pissed off you work in a restaurant in the capitalist system you are still better off than a worker in the USSR. You at least have access to consumer goods and things like a computer. In the USSR you didnt get [ayed more to compare better with a doctor.

I don't need to be paid more than someone else to feel my life to be worthy and successful.

The doctor got payed less to compare favourably with the factory worker. Essenbtially you are at the bottom of the system because from the sound of it you chose stupid degrees with very little use/worth in the real world.

A Bachelor's in History has little use in the real world? :confused:

If I were you I would find out a bit more about the people I rail against before I do it.

At any rate, I'll choose not to take advice about whether or not I would live in a socialist society from one of CFC's admitted resident fascists.

Not to menton your chances of getting 5 years of Gulag labor because of unauthorized absense from work, not fulfilling production quota, telling a joke about your employer or accidentally breaking dozen plates are quite small... :mischief:

Or not writing my graduate thesis about who my favorite person in history is and why it's Lenin? :mischief:
 
I would love to do a history degree but I'm doing a few papers in it and majoring in something else. BoA degrees often aren't worth alot in the real world, with the rare job in a musuem or an academic if you're really good.

I recommend you try doing a first year economics paper to find out why alot of your ideas won't work and why communism and socialism doesn't work out so great- see Greece, Iceland or alomost any European country which has reasonably high unemployment compared to the USA/Australia/New Zealand.
Capitalism isn't perfect, and some people get payed way to much, but its better than the other options humans have tried. Lenin was a mudering thug along with Che,Castro, Stalin and most of the communist "heroes". Ever noticed how a few poster here who did live under communism essentially are calling your views idiotic? Communism IMHO only works on a small scale amoung like minded people. Go live on a commune farm type thing and even then capitalism will indirectly support your lifestyle.
 
I would love to do a history degree but I'm doing a few papers in it and majoring in something else. BoA degrees often aren't worth alot in the real world, with the rare job in a musuem or an academic if you're really good.
Not directly, perhaps, but for a lot of white collar jobs it's simply asked that you have a Bachelors, in whatever subject; the point is to prove that you are suitably capable, not that you are already an expert in whatever it is they want you to do. That's what most people get degrees for, regardless of whether it's an arts or science. Even those which nominally lead to a defined profession, such as engineering or architecture, are mostly used for the same purpose, because the majority of students are weeded out long before the end. It's about getting on the career ladder, rather than setting you up for a particular profession.

I recommend you try doing a first year economics paper to find out why alot of your ideas won't work and why communism and socialism doesn't work out so great- see Greece, Iceland or alomost any European country which has reasonably high unemployment compared to the USA/Australia/New Zealand.
Pity, y'know, not a single one of them is socialist, which renders them just a little irrelevant.

"Dogs are ugly. For example, just look at this cat. It's much uglier than that other cat."

And that strange little "dem damn dirty reds" tangent at the end, was, well, just peculiar. I'll grant you, attempting to overthrow the entirety of two centuries of socialist thought in four sentences is a noble ambition, but it seems really somewhat misguided, and just a little hopeless.
 
I recommend you try doing a first year economics paper to find out why alot of your ideas won't work and why communism and socialism doesn't work out so great- see Greece, Iceland or alomost any European country which has reasonably high unemployment compared to the USA/Australia/New Zealand.

Like Ireland maybe? One of the most open capitalistic economies in the EU and now we're completely boned? And what the hell have Greece and Iceland got to do with Socialism or communism?

Honestly, you seem to have little if any idea what you are talking about
 
The European liberal democracies are about the closest you get to socialist, that aren't some sort of Cuba type police state.

Some degrees are worth more than others, and some degrees are easier to get than others. BA degrees from what I can see are only worth it if you're a very drivin person with a specific goal in mind. Over here theres more than a few with BA working in McDonalds, supermarkets and industrial work. Some degrees can help you get an office type job or civil service job, but you don't need a degree for alot of jobs. A BA double degree when combined with something else would be the way to do it, but theres alot of philosophy/history/marketing/gender studies/english graduates who get a nasty shock post graduation. Some get jobs vaguely related to their degree or get jobs where there degree helps but more than a few would have been better off not spending the 3 years+debt getting the degree and doing something else.
 
Like Ireland maybe? One of the most open capitalistic economies in the EU and now we're completely boned? And what the hell have Greece and Iceland got to do with Socialism or communism?

Honestly, you seem to have little if any idea what you are talking about

Irelands booming economy was propped up by loans and other countries. Once the source of money dried up it was predictable as to what was going to happen. I'm not claiming capitalism is perfect (far from it), but eventually they will recover and recover faster than some ex Soviet/communist country.
 
Irelands booming economy was propped up by loans and other countries. Once the source of money dried up it was predictable as to what was going to happen. I'm not claiming capitalism is perfect (far from it), but eventually they will recover and recover faster than some ex Soviet/communist country.

Then why are you citing a comparison between Iceland and New Zealand as proof that capitalism is superior to socialism? Also, bar two every ex-Soviet country is now capitalist, so what is the relevance there?
 
Not my special field, but you might be interested in this one: Socialism Betrayed by Roger Keeran and Thomas Kenney

Go here for an interview with the authors:
http://mltoday.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=469&Itemid=57

Just read through two thirds of the book, and... it's bad. I mean, if the authors had meant it as a way to bolster faith on the viability of soviet communism, their work really backfires, badly!

The main points, that Gorbachev intended all along to weaken and split the party, to change the political system of the USSR towards some form of "social-democracy", are good. I can believe that he wished that but was simply too stupid to arrange the separation between the state and the party before setting about to destroy the party - then, when the party collapse because of Gorbachev deliberate campaigning against its ideological basis, he found himself a president without a state. And too stupid to recognize the can of worms he was opening as the party was replaced by the state: the party could oppose nationalism (and that was part of the whole ideology), the state could not - states depend on nationalism.

The problem is, Gorbatchev was stupid, but so was the rest of the leadership of the PCUS, who let him dismantle the party, their own power base. And the rest of the members were either also stupid, or apathetic, or perhaps powerless. Only a bankrupt (ideologically and morally) party could have allowed its own dismantlement. Democratic centralism my ass, there was no democracy within the CPUS, else a leader would not be able to destroy the whole organization - he would have been toppled. Unless (if we take the opposite view and insist that the party was, internally, democratic) the people who made up the organization really wanted to dismantle it - and in that view the party as organization also failed.

The argument that the CPSU had a "left-wing" and a "right-wing" in the 1920s and then again starting with Khrushchev, is interesting. And so is the emphasis on the role of the "second (private) economy" as a support base of Gorbachev. But it begs the question: why did that second economy came exist? And here the authors feebly try (and fail) to demonstrate both that it was unnecessary, a deviation to be eliminated (allegedly, something which Andropov could have achieved, had he lived a few more years), and yet powerful and necessary enough to serve as a lever to topple the whole system! Increasingly important in supplying consumer goods. They decry the rise of the second economy within that role, yet present no explanation about how central planning could have supplied those same goods - which it constantly failed to do, else black markets and corruption would not have grown!

Worse, I saw in the book the same argument I had seen elsewhere to defend the bosses of developing capitalist nations: that workers should sacrifice consumer goods (i.e., their own living standards) in the name of "economic progress", so that more capital goods could be produced in order to grow the economy. The implicit logic being that because central planning could not provide for the demand for those consumer goods, people should just postpone the fullness of their material rewards until some future unspecified time when the enemies of socialism were defeated and real socialism could be achieved.

So I must ask: for the exploited worker what difference does it make to be exploited in the process of production of capital goods to be owned by capitalists, or in the process of production of capital goods to be owned by the state? The second is better because the worker is theoretically co-owner of those goods... but when will he have the benefit of those goods? In some unspecified future? Promises... no wonder that the population was not willing to defend socialism in the USSR when it collapsed, that it fell barely without a fight - people are only willing to wait so long!
So far the impression which I got from the book is that soviet socialism failed not because Gorbachev and a small cadre withing the CPSU betrayed it, but because the whole CPSU and its policies failed.
 
The European liberal democracies are about the closest you get to socialist, that aren't some sort of Cuba type police state.
Well, yes, nine thousand miles is closer than ten thousand miles, but it's not exactly next door. Those nations are still fundamentally and inarguably capitalist.
 
Well, yes, nine thousand miles is closer than ten thousand miles, but it's not exactly next door. Those nations are still fundamentally and inarguably capitalist.

Most of the European countries are going to have to do massive conomic reforms starting with Greece. New Zealand done them in the 90's and its probably going to hurt for a decade or so.

Australia and NZ have weathered the recession better than most economies around the world. The sceams of the *******s in Europe are going to be interesting. The riots in Greece have already started.
 
Australia and NZ have weathered the recession better than most economies around the world.

It's only because we didn't lend money we didn't have to people who couldn't afford to pay it back. Or participated too much in CDS markets.
 
That and the Eureopeans have been borrowing to cover their government spending. Rogernomics sucked in the 80's but was kinda neccessary. Something for the Europeans to look forward to. Avccounting and banks are a buit more regulated than the USA.
 
Most of the European countries are going to have to do massive conomic reforms starting with Greece. New Zealand done them in the 90's and its probably going to hurt for a decade or so.

Australia and NZ have weathered the recession better than most economies around the world. The sceams of the *******s in Europe are going to be interesting. The riots in Greece have already started.
That... Doesn't have anything at all to do with what I said.

And "*******s"? Really?
 
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